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1 user currently in Rom Hacking:  hukka |
| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - Rom Hacking - Ripping the Japanese CT Script |
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xZeaLitYx Cheep-cheep Level: 23  Posts: 46/199 EXP: 66932 For next: 791 Since: 04-13-04 Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 3 hours |
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| I now know someone who has studied eight years of Japanese and may be willing to retranslate the script of Chrono Trigger. This would allow us to see what Ted Woolsey and NOA did not want, including more emphasis on planet earth being a god of sorts and the Entity, and will remove such errors such as the line "One of you is close to someone who needs help. Find this person, fast (originally in Japanese: For matters regarding time eras, it is best to ask a person from that era), and the completely fabricated line "Janus is Schala's step-brother," which is a total lie (originally: "I don't wish to talk bad about Janus" [both are followed by the comment that he may not have a speck of magic]). This would be an amazing accomplishment, but the hardest step may be the first. We need a dumped copy of the Japanese script. We may not even have to have it correctly addressed for reinsertion after translation, perhaps opting to use TF's script editor and do it piecemeal. We just need to have it dumped. I've contacted the author of Chronotools; he's noted that at this time, the program can't really work with the Japanese ROM like it can with the English, and that differences in addresses mean that a translation of the Japanese ROM cannot be reinserted into the English seamlessly. Regardlessly, I do think there is hope of dumping the thing for translation. Do any of you know of some other methods or ways this could be accomplished? The end result will be a special edition patch for Chrono Trigger, as well as the individual script, released by the Chrono Compendium. |
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Geiger Buster Beetle Level: 34  Posts: 222/460 EXP: 241080 For next: 12571 Since: 03-15-04 From: Indianapolis, IN, USA Since last post: 6 hours Last activity: 6 hours |
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| The main issue here is that someone would have to find all of the offsets for the strings. Provided it is not saved in some completely unusual manner, it should not be too difficult to rip and save as Unicode text. ---Evil Peer |
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Heian-794 Red Super Koopa Level: 44 Posts: 573/896 EXP: 611014 For next: 271 Since: 06-01-04 From: Kyoto, Japan Since last post: 21 days Last activity: 10 days |
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Zeality, if you can get that dump made, I'd be happy to help out with the re-translation if you need it. I've played both the original and English versions, and remember in particular deeper dialogue involving the Mystics, plus of course the parts involving Flea which were a bit clearer in the Japanese version  ; |
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Kyoufu Kawa I'm not bad. I'm just drawn that way. Level: 70  Posts: 1006/2481 EXP: 3008456 For next: 7355 Since: 03-19-04 From: Catgirl Central Since last post: 14 hours Last activity: 13 hours |
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Originally posted by Heian-794How so? Now I'm curious. |
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Chickenlump Level: 41  Posts: 447/722 EXP: 474192 For next: 5953 Since: 03-15-04 From: Columbia City Indiana Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 4 min. |
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| I just put up a new Slash/Flea layout picture, and now this? I thought everything about Flea was pretty clear anyway...I wonder what more there could be? *is very interested as well* |
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xZeaLitYx Cheep-cheep Level: 23 Posts: 48/199 EXP: 66932 For next: 791 Since: 04-13-04 Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 3 hours |
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| Bisqwit doesn't exactly have the ability on-hand, but I'll email him again. My IE displays Japanese characters fine, but I don't think Windows actually does, so I'm not even sure I could pull it off on this computer. I'm going to e-mail him and see if he can just do a simple rip. |
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Geiger Buster Beetle Level: 34 Posts: 227/460 EXP: 241080 For next: 12571 Since: 03-15-04 From: Indianapolis, IN, USA Since last post: 6 hours Last activity: 6 hours |
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| My IE displays Japanese characters fine, but I don't think Windows actually does Wordpad is capable of loading Unicode text, though you will still need the appropriate font on your computer. ---Evil Peer |
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Heian-794 Red Super Koopa Level: 44 Posts: 575/896 EXP: 611014 For next: 271 Since: 06-01-04 From: Kyoto, Japan Since last post: 21 days Last activity: 10 days |
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| Regarding the Flea thing, perhaps 'over-the-top' is a better word than 'clearer'. He speaks in an extremely feminine style all the way through, and there's a little heart after 'Magus' ('Maou' in the original) when he refers to him. Not that there's anything wrong with such a personality -- maybe Square judges that North America wasn't ready for it yet. How does the table data look for this game? I'd assume that it would be complicated, since CT only uses a few hundred kanji out of the 2000 or so that most people know. What kind of order are they in? |
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xZeaLitYx Cheep-cheep Level: 23 Posts: 49/199 EXP: 66932 For next: 791 Since: 04-13-04 Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 3 hours |
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| http://bisqwit.iki.fi/ctfin/dev/japfont12-scaled.png | |||
Googie Surarok Level: 39  Posts: 241/624 EXP: 380784 For next: 23987 Since: 03-15-04 From: Corona Queens New York Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 3 hours |
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| WOW! to play Chrono Trigger with all the text intact, that'll be awsome. Good luck on the project. | |||
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Heian-794 Red Super Koopa Level: 44 Posts: 577/896 EXP: 611014 For next: 271 Since: 06-01-04 From: Kyoto, Japan Since last post: 21 days Last activity: 10 days |
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| Hey, Zeality, what a find! Or did you extract that yourself? That is indeed a weird order of kana and kanji. 'Ba', 'bi', 'bu'... first? And the kanji aren't arranged by reading or JIS code or anything else I can think of. Interesting that 'Maou' has its own entry after the symbols. One thing I liked about the original that sort of disappeared in the Engish version was all the use of different dialects. Marle speaks sort of masculine while Lucca uses typical women's speech; Melchior has some great southwestern/Hiroshima/Okayama dialect going. On the other hand, Ayla's primitive talk stayed intact, and the fake-old-English for Frog was all new. (In the original, he uses normal, non-archaic Japanese.) New translators ought to try to clean up Frog's old-style English (it's "thou hast", "he hath", not the other way around), and add something in for Melchior and the Gurus. FF9 used some Scottish but that might be going a bit far. |
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xZeaLitYx Cheep-cheep Level: 23 Posts: 50/199 EXP: 66932 For next: 791 Since: 04-13-04 Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 3 hours |
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| Ah, excellent suggestions. I've been told in the past that Frog's archaic English is horribly wrong at times; fixing this while giving the others more flair would be spectacular. By the way, what does the southwestern dialect's English equivalent? Can it be represented in this language somehow? That image comes from Bisqwit, operator of Chronotools. He's now told me that to extract the thing, I should seek another ripper (not sure one exists), or he can extend Chronotools. He has displayed interest in extending Chronotools to support the Japanese version, as long as significant gains are involved. For instance, right off: Japanese Extras not in the English ROM: -Ayla's special version of Crono's name -Numerical item counts on the equip menu -Symbols in two rows -Two columns in the item list Difficulties with English and name length problems have caused these to be scrapped, as well as caused other alterations, as we know from go right corner's preliminary differences FAQ (Proto Dome is really the Promethe Dome, short for Prometheus, and Beret is truly the 'Porrean Beret', and so on). However, what Bisqwit is looking for is any scripted actions or scenes/dialogue in the Japanese that are not in the English version; these would be an exceptional find and would motivate him to add compatibility with the Japanese ROM. So if you've played and can name anythin goffhand, Heian, it'd be hugely supportive. I'm still searching for options in actually ripping it, as well, if anyone has suggestions. I have no practical editing ability, as my powers in this arena are restricted to managing resources and driving the project. |
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Geiger Buster Beetle Level: 34 Posts: 228/460 EXP: 241080 For next: 12571 Since: 03-15-04 From: Indianapolis, IN, USA Since last post: 6 hours Last activity: 6 hours |
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| Its possible that I could do it (I have some experience with foreign alphabets), but I would not be able to get to it until sometime next month, and I cannot guarantee results. ---Evil Peer |
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xZeaLitYx Cheep-cheep Level: 23 Posts: 52/199 EXP: 66932 For next: 791 Since: 04-13-04 Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 3 hours |
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 Just posting that in case anyone has nothing better to do. JLukas has compared some Prerelease names, but cannot translate them. |
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Heian-794 Red Super Koopa Level: 44 Posts: 581/896 EXP: 611014 For next: 271 Since: 06-01-04 From: Kyoto, Japan Since last post: 21 days Last activity: 10 days |
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| Zeality, if he can't get them, pass these on: 06 Seabird Inn (I like it better with a name like this) 0C Traveler's Hotel 13 Western Mountain Cave 16 (The original is closer; the Jp version uses 'light' instead of 'Sun') 1E Desert Cave (with 'doukutsu' in hiragana for some reason) 34 Village Tent (with the village unnamed; Ioka Village Tent in J version) 41 Sealed Palace; North Sealed Palace in the J version 42 Earthburrow Cave; "Earthbound Ones' Cave" in the J version 45 is 'remaining village' in both but expressed different ways Really not all that different, and the English translations are near enough to spot-on as we could want. I've been trying to think of things that are significantly different but can't come up with anything. One pun that couldn't cross the linguistic divide was the Black Omen; it's kuro no yume in the original, which means Black Dream, but the kuro no part will make players think of 'Chrono'. The fact that kaeru. meaning frog, also means 'change' and 'return' is well known, isn't it? I thought that fit in with Frog's story perfectly. I'd love to have a crack at rendering Frog's speech into proper Shakespearean-era English if you've got the original and NA version text! |
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xZeaLitYx Cheep-cheep Level: 23 Posts: 53/199 EXP: 66932 For next: 791 Since: 04-13-04 Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 3 hours |
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| A rip was completed awhile ago; all Frog's lines are preceded by Frog:, I believe. But only if you have the free time and will; it might be monotnous to later do this once more after the JP version is translated. http://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Scripts Thanks for the Prerelease translations. That ROM has yet to yield even more secrets, in addition to those http://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Chrono_Trigger_Prerelease I'm extremely grateful to have someone on hand. Arc Impulse, the guy who said he'd be available to try and translate, has studied on his own accord for eight years, but is unsure of his ability. I've always thought that if someday, we could never find anyone willing to translate, I could try and pay some professional service to do it, but I'm not sure about copyright issues or whether they'd translate everything correctly, lacking a knowledge and feel for the Chrono series. (edited by xZeaLitYx on 12-30-04 01:49 PM) (edited by xZeaLitYx on 12-30-04 01:52 PM) |
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JLukas Red Paragoomba Level: 13 Posts: 6/51 EXP: 8897 For next: 1370 Since: 03-15-04 From: USA Since last post: 9 hours Last activity: 6 hours |
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| Thanks for the translations Heian! I went through all 90 or so overworld map names and those were the only ones that were different. The only other significant change was that Traveler's Hotel was used for every village, in the final it was changed to Porre Inn, Choras Inn, etc. |
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xZeaLitYx Cheep-cheep Level: 23 Posts: 54/199 EXP: 66932 For next: 791 Since: 04-13-04 Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 3 hours |
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| I'm adding the new information to the Prerelease encyclopedia, crediting properly of course. Just wondering; can you provide the romaji for the ones with different translations? | |||
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Heian-794 Red Super Koopa Level: 44 Posts: 583/896 EXP: 611014 For next: 271 Since: 06-01-04 From: Kyoto, Japan Since last post: 21 days Last activity: 10 days |
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| Sure, Zeality. I can't enter special characters on this PC, so when posting this stuff, convert "ou" and "uu" to o and u with macrons over them, respectively. Here are the romanizations of the pre-release names / official release names: 06 Kaichou-Tei / Toruusu-chou no yadoya 0C Tabi no hoteru / Parepori-chou no yadoya 13 Nishi no yama no doukutsu / Hekeran no doukutsu 16 Taiyou no hokora / Hikari no hokora 1E Sabaku no doukutsu / Chitei sabaku 34 Mura no tento / Ioka mura no tento 41 Fuuinkyuu / Kita no fuuinkyuu 42 Chimoguri no doukutsu / Chi no tami no doukutsu 45 Nokosare mura / Nokosareta mura BTW, don't pay a professional service to do this unless (1) you have a big budget and (2) the person in charge has played CT. I'm a paid translator and I charge 15 yen per word minimum for business-related stuff -- most people charge more! So if you're going to pay good money for this kind of thing, it had better be with someone who's not going to invent all kinds of new terms (which you'll have to edit out) because they're not familiar with the canonical CT terms.If you get a Japanese CT dump, I'll open that and the official NA version, and then make a "better" English version with proper 16th-century English. Ted Woolsey proved that he could write an approximation of that style when he wrote Cyan's lines in FF3, so I'm sure much of the mistaken stuff is for comedic effect. But it would still be better if it were really authentic. |
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xZeaLitYx Cheep-cheep Level: 23 Posts: 55/199 EXP: 66932 For next: 791 Since: 04-13-04 Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 3 hours |
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| Alright. I had no prior estimate of cost, so I'll mark that off the possibility list. http://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Location_Translations_%28CTP%29 |
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| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - Rom Hacking - Ripping the Japanese CT Script |
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