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1 user currently in Rom Hacking:  hukka |
| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - Rom Hacking - Do the people at Nintendo use editors to make their games? |
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Keikonium Banned Level: NAN Posts: 773/-2459 EXP: NAN For next: 0 Since: 04-02-04 Since last post: 63 days Last activity: 9 hours |
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Well, I wasn't talking about editing the levels, just the text of the guns. I have gameshark codes that can do it all for me . I found some interesting PD info that will be posted in a thread in about 2 seconds about editing the levels (via GS)!!! And the link that DurfarC provided has some AMAZING shots of retextured GE levels and an amazing PD like gun . |
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interdpth Rex Level: 36 Posts: 358/527 EXP: 294398 For next: 13712 Since: 03-20-04 Since last post: 10 days Last activity: 31 days |
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| I remember with a lot of Nintendos games in the credits "Tools Programmers" So I would say they do. |
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hoppityhow Newcomer Level: 5 Posts: 7/7 EXP: 374 For next: 155 Since: 09-19-04 Since last post: 369 days Last activity: 292 days |
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| um its obvious that they use editors. they just aren't the same as the kind we use. their editors dont hack the completed game like ours. they just straight up create the levels based upon the games code, put it into a form that the game will understand, and then insert it into the uncompleted code, compile it, and come up with the completed game. | |||
DurfarC Beezo Level: 33 Posts: 120/483 EXP: 218551 For next: 10628 Since: 09-04-04 From: Norway Since last post: 20 days Last activity: 12 hours |
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Originally posted by Keikonium I know they are However, it seems that the project has been in silence in four months now. You can follow the progress and download some more in their forums, but... They need more mappers and people to help them too. I was nearly to join, but I found that I didn't got the time and the experience... Yet....I think the editors game creators make are a lot of better than those we are making for ROM-hacking now. However, some of the editors made today(like Lunar Magic...) can do the work nice too  |
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BMF98567 BLACK HAS BUILT A SILLY DICE-MAZE! GO! Current list of BURNING FURY >8( recipients: - Yiffy Kitten (x2) - Xkeeper Level: 53  Posts: 442/1261 EXP: 1094149 For next: 62970 Since: 03-15-04 From: Blobaria Special Move: Rising Meatloaf Backhand Combo Since last post: 21 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
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Originally posted by DurfarCNot necessarily. Lunar Magic is almost certainly better than the original tool Nintendo used, not just in terms of the features it has, but also overall appearance and ease of use. For all we know, the original level editor could've even been text-based, using hex values in boxes rather than actual graphics (levels were often designed on paper anyway, so you wouldn't need to see the layout on-screen). Keep in mind that Nintendo's programmers and designers built the game from the ground up, and thus had an intimate knowledge of its inner workings; they likely wouldn't need a nice-looking GUI oozing with features to effectively work their magic. |
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DurfarC Beezo Level: 33 Posts: 126/483 EXP: 218551 For next: 10628 Since: 09-04-04 From: Norway Since last post: 20 days Last activity: 12 hours |
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You're right, of course, Lunar Magic can be easier to use, and you can see what you're making too, but there are some other games where the editors aren't all that good, like Mario Improvement 3. It has quite easy editing, but it takes long time, and it's always attaching bugs to the ROM |
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Darkmatt Red Cheep-cheep Level: 24  Posts: 148/212 EXP: 75447 For next: 2678 Since: 03-15-04 From: Clarkston, WA Since last post: 9 days Last activity: 10 hours |
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| Indeed, seriously, they have to actually CODE the objects and the engine piece by piece. They could've used an editor, and they probably did. As wise man once said, with flexibility, comes complications. (edited by Darkmatt on 10-30-04 12:58 AM) |
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Cellar Dweller Flurry !!! Level: 27  Posts: 167/269 EXP: 107817 For next: 8342 Since: 03-15-04 From: Arkansas Since last post: 16 days Last activity: 34 min. |
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| My guess is that back in the days of the NES levels tended to be created on graph paper and then typed into a asm source file using hex data pseudo opcodes. After that, levels would be created using a simple editor, simpler than EggVine or LM. Nowdays, 3D games tend to be created using commercial CAD programs and exported to the game's native format by custom plugins. We will probably never know for sure what Nintendo used for SMW. It is possible that Nintendo reused parts of thier SMW editor for YI. I've read that ID used a custom editor that ran on the NeXT platform to create levels for DOOM. I'm not sure, but I think that the source code for it has been released. (NeXT was a computer company started by Steve Jobs after being kicked out of Apple. NeXT has since been acquired by Apple.) |
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HyperLamer <||bass> and this was the soloution i thought of that was guarinteed to piss off the greatest amount of people Sesshomaru Tamaranian Level: 118 Posts: 1892/8210 EXP: 18171887 For next: 211027 Since: 03-15-04 From: Canada, w00t! LOL FAD Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| First, they write the game. This was generally done in ASM on older platforms but usually C now. As the source code is complete with labels and comments, it can be split into multiple files and easily modified, unlike hacking the pre-compiled code. Next, they make all the resources (levels, graphics, sound etc) using their own editors. (Don't expect to get a copy.) The editors don't work with the pre-compiled ROM, they create/edit files from scratch, and each resource is stored in its own file. Finally, the compiler puts it all together into a big lump of hex. When you're hacking it, of course, you don't have the comments or labels of the original code (and if it's done in C, you really don't have the code at all, rather an ASM recreation), and all of the files are mashed together, so it's more difficult. Whereas Nintendo can just change the code, make the level bigger, even add something completely new in a manner of minutes and re-compile it, when you hack the ROM you need to adjust pointers, find free space, etc. Ideally, you'd want to disassemble it back to at least ASM with labels and comments (no direct address references at all, so that the code can be edited freely), with all resources separate. Then you'd have as much control over the game as they do. Of course, that's hard. |
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Jaz Goomba Level: 9 Posts: 2/25 EXP: 2937 For next: 225 Since: 04-29-04 From: Moncton, N-B, Canada Since last post: 4 days Last activity: 1 hour |
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| Why don't we all look at the Credits in eash of our favorites games and ask those guys? I'm not talking about Nintendo themselves but people like Codemaster and such I mean... some of those guys are probably retired by now and should make a come back for us... loyal fans! This is just my 2 cents, I'm Canadian so i'll call it my cent and a half. |
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Kyoufu Kawa I'm not bad. I'm just drawn that way. Level: 70  Posts: 882/2481 EXP: 3008456 For next: 7355 Since: 03-19-04 From: Catgirl Central Since last post: 14 hours Last activity: 13 hours |
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| To think me and my comrades recently acquired a conv...oops. *Kawa-oneechan waves his hand around These aren't the tools you're looking for. |
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Kefka Indefinitely Unbanned Level: 81 Posts: 2364/3392 EXP: 4826208 For next: 166641 Since: 03-15-04 From: Pomona, CALIFORNIA BABY! Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 4 hours |
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| Hrmm... I never saw this topic before, but now that I do, I will look at the first post and stupidly respond to it without reading any of its replies... Okie, well, I coincidentally looked around about this at one time just out of curiosity... Not sure about Nintendo, but it would seem that the majority of companies have people specifically hired for programming the editors, and then the game designers use those editors to... well... design the game. It gives more people more money |
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Kitten Yiffer Purple wand Furry moderator Vivent l'exp����¯�¿�½������©rience de signalisation d'amusement, ou bien ! Level: 135 Posts: 6156/11162 EXP: 28824106 For next: 510899 Since: 03-15-04 From: Sweden Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 4 min. |
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| It could be said as well, Nintendo have offical SDK kits which the companies get's. It's mostly basic tools for things such as the "sappy" system, but it gives gaming companies an headstart. |
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d4s Panser Level: 29  Posts: 96/325 EXP: 142151 For next: 5734 Since: 03-23-04 Since last post: 13 days Last activity: 1 day |
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| company sometimes used available map editors instead of making their own. for example, they used TUME http://members.aol.com/opentume/ for lion kings(snes) levels. for tume you usually code your own conversion tool, however. so dont expect to be able to edit the levels of lion king directly in tume or something similar stupid. |
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| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - Rom Hacking - Do the people at Nintendo use editors to make their games? |
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