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1 user currently in Rom Hacking:  hukka |
| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - Rom Hacking - Do the people at Nintendo use editors to make their games? |
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Keikonium Banned Level: NAN Posts: 769/-2459 EXP: NAN For next: 0 Since: 04-02-04 Since last post: 63 days Last activity: 9 hours |
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| Please dont flame if you think this is a stupid question. I have always wondered if the people at nintendo, saga, sony etc. use editors to make their games. Or do they use something else like hex, ASM, or maby something completly different. So does any one know what they use to create their games (like SMW)? |
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Rain Man Buzzy Beetle Level: 31 Posts: 188/378 EXP: 175079 For next: 10284 Since: 04-14-04 Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 16 hours |
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| WTF? They dont use any code we are familiar with. They use sa special sort of code that only the people wqrking at the company know. Far beyond ASM or whatever the hell. Editors? Meh... Editors edit a specific game. Dumb question. No offense. |
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DurfarC Beezo Level: 33 Posts: 116/483 EXP: 218551 For next: 10628 Since: 09-04-04 From: Norway Since last post: 20 days Last activity: 12 hours |
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| Who knows? Personally, I think they make editors (out of hex) for making levels, data etc., but they may have the same graphic program etc. for every game... That's only what I believe though... |
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MathOnNapkins Math n' Hacks Level: 67  Posts: 748/2189 EXP: 2495887 For next: 96985 Since: 03-18-04 From: Base Tourian Since last post: 1 hour Last activity: 32 min. |
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| Given the massive reduncancy and patterns I've seen from browsing though endless rows of opcodes, it's impossible that it was hand written. That's impractical anyways. What they probably used was either A. Assembly language with lots of macros and such, or B. A high level language like C, though I've heard that C is in appropriate for the 6502/65816. That information comes from the developers of the processors. There very well could have been a version of C for them though. C is good because it is about as close to assembly language you can get in terms of speed and optimization. Often times people who work in that industry will write what is called Middle man software. That might be software for editing and inserting graphics into the game, so in some sense yeah they had editors. Probably stuff for doing maps, courses and such. Wouldn't you like to have some of those?  Those programs would do all the formatting for the data, the game just needed to know how to read it and handle it.Edit: Sgt. this is not a dumb question. I really doubt most companies would develop their own programming language just to develop one or more games. They'd probably find something standardized like C, or a language from a third party that is designed for that processor, possibly tweaking it a bit. (edited by MathOnNapkins on 10-27-04 03:19 PM) |
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Keikonium Banned Level: NAN Posts: 770/-2459 EXP: NAN For next: 0 Since: 04-02-04 Since last post: 63 days Last activity: 9 hours |
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| Well, I figured they did it all through a hex type system because with gameshark the memory editor shows hex. I just thought that if we figured out exactly how they made their games then someone (on this board) could create a whole new game based off an existing game engine (like Perfect Dark ---> Goldeneye). | |||
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MathOnNapkins Math n' Hacks Level: 67 Posts: 749/2189 EXP: 2495887 For next: 96985 Since: 03-18-04 From: Base Tourian Since last post: 1 hour Last activity: 32 min. |
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| It's not to hard to figure out how the game was "made" as you put it. But coming up with a "game generator" or whatever is probably more work than it's worth. You're better off writing a new game. | |||
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DurfarC Beezo Level: 33 Posts: 117/483 EXP: 218551 For next: 10628 Since: 09-04-04 From: Norway Since last post: 20 days Last activity: 12 hours |
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| Making a new game out of Perfect Dark or Golden Eye would be cool! But I'm sure you must have a lot of knowledge with hex, coding and a lot of stuff before you can start... Btw, there are some people who are making an almost exact "copy" of Goldeneye in the UT2004 engine. Take a look here: http://goldeneye.downclan.com If this will be released, you may at least make new levels and stuff for that game in some or anoter way  |
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Kitten Yiffer Purple wand Furry moderator Vivent l'exp����¯�¿�½������©rience de signalisation d'amusement, ou bien ! Level: 135 Posts: 5613/11162 EXP: 28824106 For next: 510899 Since: 03-15-04 From: Sweden Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 4 min. |
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| They probably have a inhouse editor, I wouldn't be surprised if they are hard to use too. There probably is a in-house SMW level "creator" but it's probably only useful if you have the SMW source.  |
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elixirnova Red Paratroopa Level: 22  Posts: 104/177 EXP: 56507 For next: 1843 Since: 04-05-04 From: Midgar Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 1 day |
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| id have to say the snes did include some gfx chips with some carts which they probably used like a difrent "language" on top of their basic snes high level language *what C is to pc programmers they probably have one similar for 65-02/816* and level editors would be dumb not to write figuring most games i know of with large amounts of 'set' levels use an editor to make them though they do require the source to plug it into. Though there are those few games that randomly generate levels which would not require a level editor "DUH" | |||
Gavin Fuzzy Rhinoceruses don't play games. They fucking charge your ass. Level: 43  Posts: 278/799 EXP: 551711 For next: 13335 Since: 03-15-04 From: IL, USA Since last post: 13 hours Last activity: 13 hours |
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Originally posted by Sergeant Billakov no offence but you really have no idea what you are talking about. i'm fairly certain some SNES games have been known to have been compiled with C in the past. Although someone with more SNES knowledge should probably fill in. For NES games, if they did not have any sort of other developement language, they probably had well constructed ASM code collections, depending on who the devleloper was. I have no way of knowing if Nintendo provided companies with special dev kits filled with common code or not, but i wouldn't be suprised if i companies made their own. It would seem inefficient not to. It would certainly not suprise me in any way if they made their own special developement programs. These people were, after all, programmers . It would be in their nature and best monetary interests to efficiently use their time and energies in aiding in game production.what you have to remember is that they would most probably not really use an "editor" per se. They would use a "developement tool", since they have the source sitting right in front of them. I would guess they would go through whatever process they created to more efficiently make a level design, then compile the program. (edited by Gavin on 10-27-04 04:56 PM) (edited by Gavin on 10-27-04 04:58 PM) |
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MathOnNapkins Math n' Hacks Level: 67 Posts: 754/2189 EXP: 2495887 For next: 96985 Since: 03-18-04 From: Base Tourian Since last post: 1 hour Last activity: 32 min. |
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| I mean, it's common sense that they don't have editors because that implies that they would want to hack the games they made. They HAVE the game they made, all they have to do is tweak it and recomplile it. | |||
jman2050 Red Koopa Level: 19 Posts: 17/123 EXP: 33172 For next: 2605 Since: 03-21-04 Since last post: 10 days Last activity: 103 days |
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| of course people at nintendo use editors. Any major development team with half a brain uses editors. You don't think they make all the levels, data, graphics, and crap by hand, do you? Of course, these aren't the 'editors' we're used to, they're most likely in-house development software that they actually made themselves, but it's pretty much the same thing as any editor we have (though granted, I doubt those editors actually handled raw data, but rather their own 'high-level' data format which was then compiled into the raw data we know of now) | |||
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Chickenlump Level: 41  Posts: 402/722 EXP: 474192 For next: 5953 Since: 03-15-04 From: Columbia City Indiana Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 4 min. |
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| Well, I'm pretty sure alot of the graphics were done by hand and not in some development tool or 'editor' (rendered graphics aside). | |||
Drag Flurry  I don't post anymore! o_O Level: 26  Posts: 225/254 EXP: 98946 For next: 3329 Since: 03-15-04 From: Deogon Vally, Dragon Country Since last post: 316 days Last activity: 44 days |
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| Yeah, they make game tools. What will most likely happen is that they have their code in some uncompressed "lvl" or whatever file, and when they compile the game, that gets compiled with it. It'd take WAY too long if they just took the source and edited the levels directly (heck, I don't even do that; for JQ, I made a level editor that I use that is very helpful. The levels themselves are stored externally to the game source, and when I compile a build, the levels get compiled into the .nes file, so that "level1.lvl, level2.lvl, level3.lvl, cheese.lvl, bbq.lvl" (which are all seperate files) all get compiled into the nes file.) The graphics, I just used yy-chr, and saved each bank (each seperate bank) as its own file, like bg1.chr, sp1.chr, bg2.chr, sp2.chr, etc etc. This most likely is what the game industry does, I think. |
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Gavin Fuzzy Rhinoceruses don't play games. They fucking charge your ass. Level: 43 Posts: 279/799 EXP: 551711 For next: 13335 Since: 03-15-04 From: IL, USA Since last post: 13 hours Last activity: 13 hours |
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Originally posted by Chickenlump by "rednered graphics" you mean the NES graphic format? |
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MathOnNapkins Math n' Hacks Level: 67 Posts: 757/2189 EXP: 2495887 For next: 96985 Since: 03-18-04 From: Base Tourian Since last post: 1 hour Last activity: 32 min. |
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| No rendered are 3D modeled graphics that are made using a special graphics workstation (or at least back in the day they were) and those can be turned into high quality 2D graphics, as in Donkey Kong Country 1-3 for example. | |||
DahrkDaiz Red Super Koopa  Acmlm's Mosts 2005 Best ROM Hacker Level: 45  Posts: 366/885 EXP: 643520 For next: 16644 Since: 03-15-04 From: K-Town Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 4 hours |
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| Well, editors used to create levels and other objects part of a game were certainly used. They would be completely retarded not to. Even amateur game developers create programs that create levels that are designed for their games. As for the code, obviously they didn't use a hex editor to code the ASM. There were assemblers created for the coding part of early videogame generation consoles, then compilers for later generations. Some great developers (especially Rare) didn't use the standard devkits and made their own and really tapped into a system's power. |
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Gavin Fuzzy Rhinoceruses don't play games. They fucking charge your ass. Level: 43 Posts: 280/799 EXP: 551711 For next: 13335 Since: 03-15-04 From: IL, USA Since last post: 13 hours Last activity: 13 hours |
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| ahh, i see. thanks | |||
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Keikonium Banned Level: NAN Posts: 772/-2459 EXP: NAN For next: 0 Since: 04-02-04 Since last post: 63 days Last activity: 9 hours |
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| Ah, I see now. So they pretty much used everything (editors, asm [sort-of], and other programs [custom made]). I am getting more in to hex editing so as soon as my new computer comes, Perfect Dark will (hopefully) be getting a bit of ROM editing by me. I have awesome ideas for changing the weapons clip, mag, properties, look, acts like settings, so thanks to the person who posted that perfect dark link. (edited by Keikonium on 10-27-04 09:34 PM) |
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Drag Flurry I don't post anymore! o_O Level: 26 Posts: 226/254 EXP: 98946 For next: 3329 Since: 03-15-04 From: Deogon Vally, Dragon Country Since last post: 316 days Last activity: 44 days |
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| Not necessarilly ASM anymore... that was ok with NES and GB, and MAYBE SNES, but as we get into more complicated systems, C / C++ / C# / Cwhatever seems to be getting more popular, since you can just compile it to run on the [game system here]'s cpu, just like you can for intel, amd, celery, and every other processer that's out there. I'm kinda interested in how you'd edit 3d levels... I'd be more happy about a Mario 64 level editor. |
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| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - Rom Hacking - Do the people at Nintendo use editors to make their games? |
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