 |
| Register | Login | |||||
 |
Main
| Memberlist
| Active users
| ACS
| Commons
| Calendar
| Online users Ranks | FAQ | Color Chart | Photo album | IRC Chat |
|
| | ||
|
| Register | Login | |||||
|
Main
| Memberlist
| Active users
| ACS
| Commons
| Calendar
| Online users Ranks | FAQ | Color Chart | Photo album | IRC Chat |
|
| | ||
1 user currently in Super Mario World hacking:  labmaster |
| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - Super Mario World hacking - A Theory I am testing... |
 |  |  |
| Add to favorites | "RSS" Feed | Next newer thread | Next older thread |
| User | Post | ||
Cruel Justice XD Level: 55  Posts: 364/1384 EXP: 1253266 For next: 60923 Since: 03-20-04 From: Darkwoods Penetentiary Since last post: 11 hours Last activity: 7 hours |
| ||
| I am attempting to change the music in SMW -Okay, here's the scoop. I've taken a look at a few chunks of data in the Mario SPCs. I am looking for the same line of hex of the first song in the smc and it's taking awhile. By then, I plan to take a random spc from a different game and copy the data to that line on the rom. If anyone knows anything about this or know I have the wrong idea, tell me now. Also, what are the addresses of the songs? If you cannot tell me that either, I'll look it up manually. (edited by The_Raven on 10-10-04 12:56 PM) |
|||
gnkkwinrrul Dry Bones Level: 39  Posts: 251/647 EXP: 402054 For next: 2717 Since: 03-15-04 From: LYKEOMGIMFROMSOMEPLACE???? Since last post: 81 days Last activity: 40 days |
| ||
| I think only one or two people know that...and they wont tell anybody how to do it :| | |||
|
Keikonium Banned Level: NAN Posts: 729/-2459 EXP: NAN For next: 0 Since: 04-02-04 Since last post: 63 days Last activity: 9 hours |
| ||
| I had also thought of this before but I thought that it wouldn't be possible. If you think about it, Ii doubt that each song is only a line or two of hex. So if you wanted a SMW2 song in replace of a SMW song, it wouldn't sound the same. I think that songs have "layers" aswell and that YI uses them all, while SMW doesn't. I am not 100% sure on this, but if you find some data from a song, change one byte and see how the song is affected. I have done this in SMB1 and SMB3 for the NES and I can make some cool remixes, so it may work in SMW. I can't wait untill Solar Soundtrack is finished. btw, Blackhole hows that program coming along? |
|||
Darth Coby Vire Dacht je nou echt dat het over was? Dacht je nou echt dat ik gebroken was? Nee toch? Nou kijk eens goed op uit je ogen gast. zonder clic heb je geen kloten tjap... bitch Level: 55  Posts: 883/1371 EXP: 1240774 For next: 73415 Since: 03-15-04 From: Belgium Since last post: 2 days Last activity: 9 hours |
| ||
That wouldn't be possible, the games use varying sound engines. Copying a song from say, Zelda to SMW wouldn't sound too good, trust me.  |
|||
Someguy Buzzy Beetle It seems as though the girl you've fallen for is also a pyromaniac. Level: 32  Posts: 99/397 EXP: 193329 For next: 13113 Since: 03-15-04 From: I'm proud to be an American... I think... Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 5 hours |
| ||
| When a song is dumped to a SPC it is not in the format it is in inside the rom, so that wouldn't work anyway. | |||
|
Cruel Justice XD Level: 55 Posts: 365/1384 EXP: 1253266 For next: 60923 Since: 03-20-04 From: Darkwoods Penetentiary Since last post: 11 hours Last activity: 7 hours |
| ||
| If only there was a tool that could translate or convert the data, we may have a chance. But it still bothers me why people can be so great, yet ruin it all by not telling you their secret. I think it's selfish... | |||
Luigi-San Melon Bug Level: 42 Posts: 76/736 EXP: 485962 For next: 35400 Since: 03-20-04 From: Mushroom Kingdom Since last post: 17 hours Last activity: 10 hours |
| ||
| I'd like to see SMW with YI music. That would be the BOMB! *Bob-Ombs pull a mass explosion* SMBN2 would be nice as well. | |||
Keitaro Iron Knuckle ウラシマ ケイタロウ Level: 54 Posts: 728/1342 EXP: 1201569 For next: 32301 Since: 03-15-04 From: Hinata, Japan Since last post: 2 days Last activity: 2 days |
| ||
Originally posted by Someguy uhhh.....not really. actualy, it is, its just in a different location than the rom but everything else is the exact same, as its all spc-relative in rom (meaning the pointers in spc code would pertain to spc memory, making it all the same). anyways. I basicly could do it, with a ittle time and effort. Its just the amount of people who would constantly badger me (as I still get asked about GBA, I don't do insert requests!  ) has turned me off from really releasing anything i've done (a few things with SMB2, maybe somthing involving KSS that I probably shouldn't mention because of the badgering that will ensue). Most of the reasons people don't give out too much info is the amount of lame hacks and stuff that come out of a good thing. I have already released a detailed SPC editing document pertaining tot he format used in Demo World 3 as well as many other games, twice I may add. If anyone is interested I could always re-link (its f-zero reletive but the overall format structure pertains to all games of the engine), not like anyone even bothered the first 2 times it was up. Another reason I havn't released anything.Just to clear some common misconceptions up: You can't magicly insert music just by getting the data. You also need to copy over all the instrument samples used, and they aren't too small alot of times. SPC Memory has a pretty evil limit on it, which means not too much of your program can be soley dedicated to sample memory (Squaresoft works aroud this by loading only the samples they need for the current track, however due to the simplicity of DW3-Engine format games, this is unecesary, as well as a bitch worth to impliment, don't even ask). MIDIs can not be put in. they just can't. MP3s either. If anyone even sugests converting it to a wave and BRRing it, you should be...well, I guess I'll let your lack of knowledgability slide, but the sample memory is TIGHT. would never, ever work (converting an 8-bit wave, unsigned, that alone was well over 5000 bytes  )oh and I don;t take requests but if I ever release a sound-related patch, i suppose you all could use it if proper credit's given, heh. |
|||
orynider Red Paratroopa Level: 22  Posts: 142/162 EXP: 50286 For next: 8064 Since: 03-17-04 Since last post: 57 days Last activity: 27 days |
| ||
| From what I know blackhole89 is making "Solar Sondtrak" so you can edit the music in MarioWorld using the dw3 engine. Anyway I can make an document about how to edit the rom in an hex editor to customize what music from all_stars to use ... | |||
|
Keitaro Iron Knuckle ウラシマ ケイタロウ Level: 54 Posts: 730/1342 EXP: 1201569 For next: 32301 Since: 03-15-04 From: Hinata, Japan Since last post: 2 days Last activity: 2 days |
| ||
| .........even thoguh I definatly stated having writen said document and linking to it twice, offering to re-link to those interested. However, you basicly proved no one ever reads what I say, so screw it. | |||
|
Keikonium Banned Level: NAN Posts: 732/-2459 EXP: NAN For next: 0 Since: 04-02-04 Since last post: 63 days Last activity: 9 hours |
| ||
| I read what you said, and its pretty much all made sence to me. Tthe only thing that didn't was you talking about converting. You said that you couldn't take an MP3, convert to a WAV, and then use your doc to get that file into the game. Now, if that file had the same (or around the same) number of bytes/bits why wouldn't it be possible? I really want to get only two songs into my hack, and that would be the: 1. YI Cave Music 2. YI Music often used in forest levels (that do-do-do-do-do do-do-do-do-do song  )3. And if possible, the theme song from Zelda. Would any of those be possible? I heard somewhere on this board that you could make a command that can point to unused portion of the ROM and put your song data there. Okay, now is there any ROMs that have other music in them, and that is the ONLY CHANGE?? So that all the levels, OW, graphics etc. are the same as the original? Because If so, I may beable to figure out where the music data is located. I did this with a locked/unlocked ROM, and figured out how to lock/unlock each rom. Thought it may work with music. |
|||
|
Keitaro Iron Knuckle ウラシマ ケイタロウ Level: 54 Posts: 731/1342 EXP: 1201569 For next: 32301 Since: 03-15-04 From: Hinata, Japan Since last post: 2 days Last activity: 2 days |
| ||
| well, the thing is. its not about how much space is in the rom, per say. The thing is, every and all SPC-Relative data is sent to the SPC's memory, which has a very strict limit of about 64kb. So basicly, rom space is never an issue. The reason that putting in an MP3 as a wave wouldnt work is that you need to compress the wave through means of BRR. The size of said wave would be so huge, that by the workings of the engin ein question, there would not be enough sample memory for other intstruments critical to the game (Sound effects, for example). The reason Squaresoft games and the such have so much music and so many large instruments, is that the way their engine works is that instruments and songs are only sent as needed. Only instruments necesary for the song at hand is sent into memory. Due to the simplicity of the engine in question, however, there was never a need to do this and as a result many things such as sample size are restricted to as much as can fit into memory at once (keep in mind, 64kb also consists of the current sound bank, in this case, being SMB3, in addition to all 24 or so instrument samples) As for YI and Zelda music, it could be done...you'd need to put in all the necesary samples, which is why i'm very very sure you could only fit in MAYBE the YI songs, or just the Zelda song, but not both I'm afraid. As for figuring out where music data is located, never TOO difficult really (just by seaching for a string of relative commands you'd probably come up with somthing), so no need to go file comparing  |
|||
blackhole89 LOLSEALS Moderator of ROM hacking EmuNET IRC network admin Head GM of TwilightRO Level: 47  Posts: 358/971 EXP: 739208 For next: 26995 Since: 03-15-04 From: Dresden/Germany Since last post: 14 hours Last activity: 12 hours |
| ||
Originally posted by Keikonium Yes.
Yes.
Same. All of the Mario games (besides to SMW itself), LoZ 3 and probably some more Nintendo games use what we few SPC hackers (elitism rules!) like to call the N-SPC, or SMAS engine. That means, you can more or less easily port the songs. @Raven, you were actually right, for most of SMAS's songs are not larger than about 100 bytes. However, SMW without Bouche's SMAS engine is still quite dubious and I wouldn't attempt putting my hands on it. Btw, I just decided to "unice" Solar Soundtrack. That means, a release, probably, is drawing closer. I got sorts of stuck because of disgusting memory management problems ~Blacky. |
|||
|
Keitaro Iron Knuckle ウラシマ ケイタロウ Level: 54 Posts: 739/1342 EXP: 1201569 For next: 32301 Since: 03-15-04 From: Hinata, Japan Since last post: 2 days Last activity: 2 days |
| ||
| basicly, I had said they could be done but of course youd need the proper instrumentations. Lucky SMW/AS shares a couple or so with YI (maybe a drum or two...anda few simple waves like a sine flute and a violin, but thats about all, really..) |
|||
|
HyperLamer <||bass> and this was the soloution i thought of that was guarinteed to piss off the greatest amount of people Sesshomaru Tamaranian Level: 118 Posts: 1750/8210 EXP: 18171887 For next: 211027 Since: 03-15-04 From: Canada, w00t! LOL FAD Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
| ||
| I wonder about something... Perhaps if someone knew SPC700 ASM well enough, they could write a new, more powerful engine for SMW. One that only loads the instruments it needs, and supports more commands. Then, music from other games could be converted to this format. (Generally a simple find and replace; game A uses commands 8x to play a note while game B uses 2x, so replace 80->20, 81->21, etc.) The music data in the ROM would include both the commands and the instruments it uses. So say it goes to load track 4, alright, here's track 4's command data, got it, here's 6 instruments it uses, load them, away you go. | |||
|
Keitaro Iron Knuckle ウラシマ ケイタロウ Level: 54 Posts: 745/1342 EXP: 1201569 For next: 32301 Since: 03-15-04 From: Hinata, Japan Since last post: 2 days Last activity: 2 days |
| ||
| I wish it was as easy as 8x = 2x, but for example...the SMAS/NSPC/YOURMOM engine is basicly pattern-based...in other words. it works sorta like MOD or IT files, in that it has a "pattern" of data that can be constantly referenced, for example, if you have a part of a song that repeates, you only need to code it once. The engines used by Square for example, are not pattern based, or at least if they are its incredibly different...though their engines, to my knowledge, are EXTREMLY efficient, yet somewhat difficult to code for...I tried looking through Final Fantasy 3's music data a bit but I didn't come up with too too much. Another interesting format is Donkey Kong Country's....which also uses the ever-efficient samples when needed method...although I hardly knnow enough to utalise this...nor does Yoro, the girl some of you may know, who taught me a few specifics for DKC. | |||
|
blackhole89 LOLSEALS Moderator of ROM hacking EmuNET IRC network admin Head GM of TwilightRO Level: 47 Posts: 365/971 EXP: 739208 For next: 26995 Since: 03-15-04 From: Dresden/Germany Since last post: 14 hours Last activity: 12 hours |
| ||
Originally posted by HyperHacker Our main problem at the moment is neither the lack of commands (SMAS uses probably a quarter of what's available) nor is it (at least not ~that~ important) the lack of SPC space. The main problem about making SMW-SMAS sound better are the instruments. Mind that SMAS's flute is only 48 samples long, while SoM's (which has about the best SPC samples out there) has whole 7136 of them. Means, SMAS has only dumb basic waveform data for its instruments just like the very first keyboards. @MajinBlueDragon, of course square's engines are pattern-based. If you don't believe, take your time, delete an SPC's ID333 tag and let it run. Probably, after a day or such, you will be convinced that you can't compress 24h of music into 64k of SPC memory without patterns, loops and such. @everyone, although there are no -clear- results concerning this yet, there is still something 100% sure about square's engine: Each song consists out of two parts: One which is constant throughout all of the songs, contains about 20 never used instrument samples and the playback code. And one which is set per song, contains instruments beginning with entry 32 which are actually being used in the song and the song data. Doesn't that remind us of SMAS's banking system? Which, again, would point at a SMAS-like "sequencer" format. ~Blacky. |
|||
|
HyperLamer <||bass> and this was the soloution i thought of that was guarinteed to piss off the greatest amount of people Sesshomaru Tamaranian Level: 118 Posts: 1765/8210 EXP: 18171887 For next: 211027 Since: 03-15-04 From: Canada, w00t! LOL FAD Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
| ||
| Right, I know it's usually not as easy as just replacing bytes, but you get the idea. Convert another game's music to this format, and insert it. The extra commands would just be there to make it easier to use, things like different types of loops, jumps etc. Of course the instruments are the biggest issue, that's why I said that each song would load its own. BTW, all SPCs are pattern based in the sense that they repeat parts and loop, but Square's are different. |
|||
|
Keitaro Iron Knuckle ウラシマ ケイタロウ Level: 54 Posts: 753/1342 EXP: 1201569 For next: 32301 Since: 03-15-04 From: Hinata, Japan Since last post: 2 days Last activity: 2 days |
| ||
Hyper Hacker basicly said it, pattern based in the sence that they loop and such but..SMAS uses the literal sence of a "pattern" in musical terminoligy, while as Square's engine does not have this luxury...however I'm quite sure they've develped an even more efficient way of going about this...as difficult as it may seem as of now to code by hex, as I've said its EXTREMLY efficient...which is why I wanna take a gander into DKC territory as well (I can pray 1 and 2 use the same format!)  As for crappy instruments used on basic keyboards...I'd kill for a basic keyboard of that time era with smw quality instruments I have one from that time frame that couldn't even produce a proper square wave without sounding rather retarded. A wave form is all what you make of it, its all depending on the envelope you set. Look into some of the songs from Final Fantasy 3, for example. Not all of those samples are big, some are actualy small wave forms just used apropriately. I think one of the better examples I could give of any song decently using waveforms that way is DKC, in every single sence. 70% of its instruments, noe xadgeration, consist of tiny little GBC-esque waves. But theres no denying DKC had one of the most awesome soundtracks ever (edited by MajinBlueDragon on 10-15-04 08:10 PM) |
| Add to favorites | "RSS" Feed | Next newer thread | Next older thread |
| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - Super Mario World hacking - A Theory I am testing... |
| | |
