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1 user currently in Rom Hacking:  hukka |
| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - Rom Hacking - Importing Bitmap images into a rom. |
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Sinister Productions SP Newcomer Level: 4 Posts: 1/4 EXP: 158 For next: 121 Since: 10-05-04 Since last post: 392 days Last activity: 339 days |
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| Such as on Donkey Kong Country they have made 3D graphics, rendered them and then put them into the snes game some how. How may I go about doing this for tiles in a rom, also is it possible to extend the pattlette? |
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Kyoufu Kawa I'm not bad. I'm just drawn that way. Level: 70  Posts: 721/2481 EXP: 3008456 For next: 7355 Since: 03-19-04 From: Catgirl Central Since last post: 14 hours Last activity: 13 hours |
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| No developer in his right mind actually -draws- (or renders, in DKC's case) the graphics directly in the target platform's format. They use some well-known bitmap format or even PhotoShop PSD files and mass-convert them into the right console format. It's that obvious. As for palette expansion, if you mean using more than 16 colors per sprite, fuck no. |
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Sinister Productions SP Newcomer Level: 4 Posts: 2/4 EXP: 158 For next: 121 Since: 10-05-04 Since last post: 392 days Last activity: 339 days |
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Originally posted by Kawa-oneechan I know I may seem like an idiot, but how would I mass convert them into a console format? Yes now everyone thinks I'm an idiot, well I'm a n00b. |
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Smallhacker Green Birdo SMW Hacking Moderator Level: 68  Posts: 570/2273 EXP: 2647223 For next: 81577 Since: 03-15-04 From: Söderhamn, Sweden Since last post: 10 hours Last activity: 9 hours |
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| YY-CHR have got BMP import (File>Paste snapshot or something). I dunno if it's good, though. | |||
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Sinister Productions SP Newcomer Level: 4 Posts: 3/4 EXP: 158 For next: 121 Since: 10-05-04 Since last post: 392 days Last activity: 339 days |
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Originally posted by Smallhacker Wee, thanks yous. EDIT: Gah, now when I import the bitmap the colours not right, how do I give it it's own pattlette without effecting the rest of the tiles? (edited by Sinister Productions SP on 10-05-04 02:13 PM) |
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elixirnova Red Paratroopa Level: 22  Posts: 71/177 EXP: 56507 For next: 1843 Since: 04-05-04 From: Midgar Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 1 day |
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| You cant that i know of O_o if you dont mind using the current palette's colors and they arnt right... you just have to kind of 'redraw' it image in the right colors i dont think theres much you can do besides that, that wouldnt require tons of work | |||
Keitaro Iron Knuckle ウラシマ ケイタロウ Level: 54 Posts: 716/1342 EXP: 1201569 For next: 32301 Since: 03-15-04 From: Hinata, Japan Since last post: 2 days Last activity: 2 days |
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DKC's graphics were made, then put through a special program (I know the name of it, but I forgot  ) that made each image compatible witht he SNES's pallet capacity...quite impressive actualy. |
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d4s Panser Level: 29  Posts: 83/325 EXP: 142151 For next: 5734 Since: 03-23-04 Since last post: 13 days Last activity: 1 day |
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| when rendering graphics and your target platform has a maximum of 16 colours per tile, the first step to vivid colours at low depth starts in your 3d editor.choose colours and lighting wisely. avoiding gradients and weak contrasts helps. if you choose to have one palette for an entire tileset(say for all animations of one character), dont have any colour shifting or too much shadows going on, you'll end up with like 4-7 colours per frame when reducing the colour depth automatically. another problem is the antialaising around your rendered object. unless you only have one background colour, you'll have jagged edges around the object (eg the grey pixels around diddy in dkc). thats why you have to manually retouch EVERY graphic you rendered if you dont want it to look like garbage. manual palette conversions are a must (automatic true colour -> 256c/128c and then reducing the depth to 16c by choosing and combining colours manually). no matter how good your palette conversion/reducing tool is, it cant know what in your image is what and where it has to preserve details. typically, you only need very few dark colours, but more mid-tone ones. you dont have to redraw the graphics completely, just correct or highlight things that got lost in the conversion and remove jaggy edges. look at the game rendering ranger r2 for example. all graphics were rendered but heavily retouched with deluxe paint on an amiga. still, they look like they came straight out of the renderer. in addition to that, the upcoming starfox 2 translation of gideon zhi and me will feature a rendered logo of mine, you'll notice it when you see it. of course, i didnt use dpaint.  i use 3d studio max and paint shop pro. rare didnt have any "magic tool" that made rendered graphics on the snes possible. what you needed (at that time) was: 1) sgi workstations 2) lots of rom space for tiles (dkcs graphics are all uncompressed cause they have to be dma'd to vram every frame) 3) skilled artists oh, and that 32bit quality on the 16bit snes stuff was just the usual nintendo-propaganda. its not like the cartridge would somehow enhance the snes' perfomance. just a plain 32mbit rom/16kbit sram hirom game although the game itself is a masterpiece, no doubt. and concerning graphics conversion: i always draw the graphics for my snes projects in paint shop pro and let external tools handle the conversion to snes format. (nevikstis pcx2snes for example) if you did your graphics that way one time, you'll never want to use a tile editor again. (edited by d4s on 10-06-04 02:52 AM) (edited by d4s on 10-06-04 02:58 AM) |
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MathOnNapkins Math n' Hacks Level: 67  Posts: 614/2189 EXP: 2495887 For next: 96985 Since: 03-18-04 From: Base Tourian Since last post: 1 hour Last activity: 32 min. |
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| Hmm so I am curious. In DKC were the palettes for each DMAed tile also DMAed? As in, where palettes swapped every frame to make it seem like more colors were being used? | |||
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d4s Panser Level: 29 Posts: 84/325 EXP: 142151 For next: 5734 Since: 03-23-04 Since last post: 13 days Last activity: 1 day |
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Originally posted by MathOnNapkins i didnt say that, because i dont know. i can say however that games like rendering ranger r2 use one palette for all of the characters tiles. i'd say that its possible, though. dma'ing one palette during vblank wouldnt eat up lots of cycles. but im sure they didnt flip the palettes in the same way some games fake transparency(eg flipping a tile on and off every other frame), i think this would have resulted in serious flickering. on the other hand, donkey kong countrys vblank is probably used to the full extend. i mean theres lots of tile loading going on each nmi, not only sprites as in most games but also bg tiles. dkc would be a very interesting game to investigate. im still curious how they did that ultracool 3d effect in the sunken ships in dkc2 (fake-3d-floor + fake 3d water). you hardly see the hardware beeing pushed that way. (edited by d4s on 10-06-04 08:01 AM) (edited by d4s on 10-06-04 08:02 AM) (edited by d4s on 10-06-04 08:03 AM) (edited by d4s on 10-06-04 08:04 AM) (edited by d4s on 10-06-04 08:05 AM) |
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Sinister Productions SP Newcomer Level: 4 Posts: 4/4 EXP: 158 For next: 121 Since: 10-05-04 Since last post: 392 days Last activity: 339 days |
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| Also such as on Lylat Wars they use the super 3D FX chip, how could I do that if it's possible? | |||
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d4s Panser Level: 29 Posts: 85/325 EXP: 142151 For next: 5734 Since: 03-23-04 Since last post: 13 days Last activity: 1 day |
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Originally posted by Sinister Productions SP do WHAT? try to use proper english and elaborate on the matter. i have no idea what you wanna say. lylat wars is a game on n64 and doesnt use any special chip. you probably meant starfox/starwing for snes. yes, starwing uses the super fx chip. you can enable it(at least when playing on an emulator) by setting rom offset $7FD5 to #$2015. however, it will do exactly NOTHING unless you code a program in super fx assembler and let the sfx execute it. for example, if you want to do 3d graphics with the chip, you'll have to write a graphics engine in super fx assembler that is capable of rendering polygons and placing the rendered image in the sram. then, you have to write a routine in 65816 assembler that dma's this image to the snes' vram. may sound simple, but let me tell you that you havent got the slightest chance to succeed if you dont know the ins and outs of 65816 and super fx assembler and the snes perfectly plus a solid knowledge of low-level 3d graphics programming. in case you havent seen some yet, heres how super fx assembler sourcecode looks like. the following example code draws gets ONE BYTE from a texture in the rom and draws ONE PIXEL to the sram, position determined by regs r1(x-pos) and r2(y-pos). it doesnt include ANY mathematical operation that determines where, when, and how this pixel is drawn. ibt r8,#$00 merge r0=$0000 CY=0 to r14 add r5 r14=$e000 S=1 with r3 B=1 move r1,r3 B=0 with r6 B=1 move r12,r6 r12=$0005 B=0 with r8 B=1 add r9 r8=$0666 S=0 B=0 merge r0=$0006 getc ROM=12:E000 COLR=$ff to r14 add r5 r14=$e006 S=1 loop r12=$0004 r15=$de9b S=0 plot r1=$009c |
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HyperLamer <||bass> and this was the soloution i thought of that was guarinteed to piss off the greatest amount of people Sesshomaru Tamaranian Level: 118 Posts: 1707/8210 EXP: 18171887 For next: 211027 Since: 03-15-04 From: Canada, w00t! LOL FAD Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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Originally posted by Sinister Productions SP Using a special program, written by Nintendo and absolutely NOT released to the public. BTW, I'd also like to know how to use the SuperFX. Any decent tutorials you know of? |
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d4s Panser Level: 29 Posts: 90/325 EXP: 142151 For next: 5734 Since: 03-23-04 Since last post: 13 days Last activity: 1 day |
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| well... i can compile a sfx doc when im done with the starfox2 translation. would make sense as there basically no useful info available. wouldnt be useful for starters, though. ive also coded some tools to convert super fx interleaved graphics to a normal raw bitmap format and such things, but theres just one slight problem: since i dont know any other programming language but 65816, spc700 and super fx assembler, i coded them on the snes and i dont think there will be anybody who would find them useful. vl-tone knows something about super fx graphics, better ask him for anything 3d mesh or texture related. btw, mass-converting graphics from standard pc formats (pcx, gif, bmp) can be easily done with tools like pcx2snes, feidian or nevikstis pcx2snes (i prefer the latter) and a small batchfile, like i mentioned before. (edited by d4s on 10-09-04 02:14 PM) |
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