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1 user currently in Rom Hacking:  hukka |
| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - Rom Hacking - Some direction for beginning hackers? |
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Reshaper256 Bee Level: 19  Posts: 15/143 EXP: 34776 For next: 1001 Since: 09-14-04 From: United States Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 9 hours |
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| Hello everyone, I feel that there are some topics that many of us "beginning hackers" would truly appreciate having some guidance on. I know that several of you are virtually professionals when it comes to hex-editing, asm hacking, and rom hacking in general. Even those of you who aren't quite professionals still know more than most of the newcomers on this board - therefore I'm going to ask some of the questions that are on my mind. -How did you start learning to hex-edit? -How did those of you who understand asm language go about learning it? -What is the best way, in your opinion, to attack rom hacking in general? -Do you have any other suggestions about this learning process - at all? I believe that other learning hackers share these same questions, and would be grateful for some original, non-referential advice concerning these issues.  (edited by Reshaper256 on 09-16-04 01:20 AM) (edited by Reshaper256 on 09-16-04 01:36 PM) |
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Googie Surarok Level: 39  Posts: 165/624 EXP: 380784 For next: 23987 Since: 03-15-04 From: Corona Queens New York Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 3 hours |
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| go to http://www.zophar.net/ and http://www.romhacking.com/ These sites will help you with everything you need to know about ROM Hacking. Good luck. |
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Xtreme984 Koopa Level: 18  Posts: 29/111 EXP: 25164 For next: 4733 Since: 07-27-04 Since last post: 116 days Last activity: 58 days |
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| -How did you start learning to hex-edit? : I learned about the hexadecimal way of counting and how the addreses work. -What is the best way, in your opinion, to get started rom hacking in general? : firstly you have to have the rom you're going to hack, an emulator, a hex editor and maybe also a gfx editor. if you have that all you maybe can find some game specific documents. -Do you have any other suggestions - at all? : Don't open too much threads like this and let your inspiration and creativity run wild. (edited by Xtreme984 on 09-16-04 01:01 AM) |
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Reshaper256 Bee Level: 19 Posts: 17/143 EXP: 34776 For next: 1001 Since: 09-14-04 From: United States Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 9 hours |
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Thanks a lot Googie, those two sites are a backbone containing a lot of rom hacking knowledge, and anyone visiting this thread wanting to learn will definitely want to visit them. Most of us here, however - even beginning hackers - will have already stumbled upon those two sites before finding this thread.  That's why I changed the wording around a bit in the original post, so old - well distributed - information isn't recycled so much. With all the talent I have seen the past few months browsing these boards, I'm sure that some of you have very different perspectives on the best ways to learn this stuff. What I'm getting at, I guess, is try to skip the absolute basics - fundamentals you can find anywhere. I know sharing know-how isn't something rom hackers do too much, so I don't expect a huge reply. I just really want to learn more, and I don't plan on cluttering things with another thread like this. Oh yeah, thank you too Xtreme984 - don't want to leave you out!  |
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Xtreme984 Koopa Level: 18 Posts: 30/111 EXP: 25164 For next: 4733 Since: 07-27-04 Since last post: 116 days Last activity: 58 days |
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| Reshaper, I hope you know I didn't mean "don't open too much threads like this" in a negative way. other members that are trying to look for something that was on the first page often don't know where it went anymore. because they moved to the second page. as for ASM hacking, I'm a newb on that. I'm in the process of learning it though. EDIT: the ASM code is different on each console because not each console uses the same CPU etc. the NES ASM is often referred to as 6502. (edited by Xtreme984 on 09-16-04 02:49 AM) |
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Jaspile Red Koopa Level: 20  Posts: 51/133 EXP: 37467 For next: 4972 Since: 03-15-04 From: Paris, France Since last post: 20 hours Last activity: 11 hours |
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| -How did you start learning to hex-edit ? Hex editing is quite easy, since it only consist of replacing bytes values with others. It's not hard to convert some ASM code into hex, it just requires patience. -How did those of you who understand asm language go about learning it ? After having seen Mario Adventure ASM hacks and DahrkDaiz saying that they were a lot of small things quite easy to do, I decided to try to learn a little bit of it; and I've been amazed of what I could do with very few ASM knowledge. It's not really hard for the basic stuffs, I understood the things quite easily (the only 'programmation' experience I had was with The Games Factory, so...). The best way to learn it is by asking the ones who know it (on #rom-hacking at EsperNet for example), and I can ensure you that the people there are very nice and helpful; and by completing the knowledge with the different docs you'll find. -What is the best way, in your opinion, to get started rom hacking in general ? I think you have to remember that you're firstly hacking for yourself and your pleasure, then comes the pleasure of people who might play your hack. And also that a hack with good designed levels can be ways better than a poor designed levels hack with some useless ASM hacks in it... I hope I've been understandable  |
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Reshaper256 Bee Level: 19 Posts: 20/143 EXP: 34776 For next: 1001 Since: 09-14-04 From: United States Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 9 hours |
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Thanks Jaspile, that was very helpful, and I could tell it came from experience. That makes anyone's advice much more trustworthy in my eyes. Your reply is an example of the kind of stuff I was hoping for when I posted this thread.  edit: Hey, I'm a Goomba now! (joy) (edited by Reshaper256 on 09-16-04 02:04 PM) |
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Heian-794 Red Super Koopa Level: 44 Posts: 449/896 EXP: 611014 For next: 271 Since: 06-01-04 From: Kyoto, Japan Since last post: 21 days Last activity: 10 days |
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| Reshaper, I got started in hacking because I wanted to translate games, and so the first thing I learned (not including hexadecimal math, which I learned in high school) was how games map characters to hex values -- some are kind enough to use ASCII (A=41, B=42... I think), and others have their own, sometimes bizarre, systems. So I was opening hex editors and scouring games for what might be text. From there I moved on to graphics editors -- Tile Layer Pro is my main choice now, but a few years ago, DirectEd was useful too (the DOS interface is its only drawback). Then I started discovering more non-obvious things in hex editors such as numerical values used in the game, such as sports games which use a variety of different methods to encode player data. I still know precious little about assembly, and can't really handle compressed graphics, so basically my hacks are confined to graphics and text hacking. There's so much more to learn, and some of the people on this board really are impressive. |
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Geiger Buster Beetle Level: 34  Posts: 109/460 EXP: 241080 For next: 12571 Since: 03-15-04 From: Indianapolis, IN, USA Since last post: 6 hours Last activity: 6 hours |
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| How did you start learning to hex-edit? I think I was introduced to the concept by hacking documents online, but I did not really learn hex until I was thrown in over my head at my current job (my company makes devices that talk to vehicle networks). How did those of you who understand asm language go about learning it? I picked up the basics from my computer science courses. I learned it a bit better when I had to start looking at Lordtech's Snes9x traces. I consulted many sources, including those mentioned. Here are a couple more that I have found indispensable. http://www.obelisk.demon.co.uk/65C02/reference.html http://www.obelisk.demon.co.uk/6502/reference.html What is the best way, in your opinion, to attack rom hacking in general? The best way is probably to do some actual book learning, but a more general way would be to just immerse oneself in it and pick it up via osmosis. I have done both, but I learned more and better from the latter. Learning from someone who already knows the stuff and is a decent teacher can be really helpful, if you can find such a saint. Do you have any other suggestions about this learning process - at all? Keep at it. Do not get discouraged. I have been working with the stuff for about three years and I am only now starting to see the bigger picture in ASM code; not just the individual lines. Find something to do that you like. Not what some tutorial or person suggests. Find something to drive you other than the community. It often can and will disappoint you. By that same reasoning, ignore any comments that are not constructive; compliment and complaint alike. ---Evil Peer |
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Googie Surarok Level: 39 Posts: 167/624 EXP: 380784 For next: 23987 Since: 03-15-04 From: Corona Queens New York Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 3 hours |
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| Sorry about that last post, I was very tired last night. I can answer your Q's now... How did you start learning to hex-edit?: I started learning by looking at alot of documents, but the best one to me is the Hex Lesson Solid-Tbone made. Look at it here... http://www.tekhacks.net/bored/thread.php?id=5662 How did those of you who understand asm language go about learning it?: Right now ASM is still new to me, learning is infinite so I go back to this site on ASM tutorial from time to time... http://k2pts.home.comcast.net/gbaguy/nesasm.htm What is the best way, in your opinion, to attack rom hacking in general?: Hack a ROM that you enjoy playing, look at it from different angles. If you get stumped somewhere don't be afraid to ask, and most of all don't give up, and do it for fun. |
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DahrkDaiz Red Super Koopa  Acmlm's Mosts 2005 Best ROM Hacker Level: 45  Posts: 334/885 EXP: 643520 For next: 16644 Since: 03-15-04 From: K-Town Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 4 hours |
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| Trial and error folks, trial and error. You'll never know or understand something unless you dive in and break your rom multiple times. No great ASM/ROM hacker ever got there without breaking something in the process. | |||
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Reshaper256 Bee Level: 19 Posts: 27/143 EXP: 34776 For next: 1001 Since: 09-14-04 From: United States Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 9 hours |
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| All of this new information has been very helpful. Myself, I have copied all the links that were posted onto my desktop, and although more posts would be wonderful, I think this thread has already accomplished enough to be considered worth it. Thanks everyone, and I hope even more useful advice will be posted!  |
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Chickenlump Level: 41  Posts: 374/722 EXP: 474192 For next: 5953 Since: 03-15-04 From: Columbia City Indiana Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 4 min. |
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| Evil Peer makes a very fantastic point, don't base your entire rom-hacking experience on any one community online. Base your experiences on what you can do, what you have done, and what you think you can do. Coming online to message boards and chat rooms can help you, but if you only rely on it, you may find yourself giving up a tad too soon. Just diving right in with what you know and what you can find out really is the best advice. I started out with just basic tile editing, making small graphics changes to games. Then I learned to hex edit all kinds of data from publicly available documents. Once you learn to work with what's available, then you can move on. Once I had a firm grasp of what was already available, I tried my hand at finding data on my own. Finding stuff to edit that wasn't publicly known, or released. Random corruption goes a long way at first to find your first bits of data. Then, once random corruption failed me, I started noticing patterns in the hex that were almost easily recognizable, and began narrowed down corrupting. Corrupting stuff that looked familiar, or interesting. I'm just now learning to use tracers and debuggers to find data. Work your way up to harder things at your own pace. It's worth it, especially when you feel like you have accomplished something. I care less what other people think I should be doing, or when I should be doing it, I'd run myself ragged if I did. Even if you can't find any documents or help, if you have even the smallest idea of what's going on, jump in and try it out. You have nothing to lose, and everything to gain. Even if it's a hobby you aren't going to be in long term, you will learn quite a few interesting things along the way. |
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