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| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - Programming - .NET or not to dot net? |
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Do you have .net installed?| i am recently writing a program in .net and realized the installation of .net framework is 20mb -_- | Yes i do have .net installed |
52.0%, 13 votes | No i do not have .net!!!! |
48.0%, 12 votes | im still using 95 O_O or lower |
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0.0%, 0 vote | Multi-voting is disabled.
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elixirnova Red Paratroopa Level: 22  Posts: 39/177 EXP: 56507 For next: 1843 Since: 04-05-04 From: Midgar Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 1 day |
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| i have .net and i sure hope everyone else does :-P | |||
Lenophis Super Koopa Level: 44  Posts: 146/830 EXP: 584360 For next: 26925 Since: 03-15-04 From: Duluth, MN Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 3 hours |
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| Yeah I have it, but I prefer to never use it if I can help it. | |||
SePH Geldman Level: 33  Posts: 206/459 EXP: 219339 For next: 9840 Since: 06-23-04 From: Québec Caliss de libéraux Since last post: 6 days Last activity: 14 hours |
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| Well I do have .net since I use a bunch of programs that needs this installed in order to work, so yesss. | |||
Garmichael Octoballoon Level: 21  Posts: 31/166 EXP: 47489 For next: 2454 Since: 06-27-04 From: Bremerton, Wa Since last post: 316 days Last activity: 113 days |
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| I got it because a client wants me to make a website for him using it. After screwing around with it for a while, I decided im sticking PHP/Notepad. I cant stand the way .NET works for websites. As for C++ and Basic.. I dont really see a difference. but im a shitty programmer. |
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Parasyte Bullet Bill Level: 35  Posts: 146/514 EXP: 267348 For next: 12588 Since: 05-25-04 Since last post: 104 days Last activity: 32 days |
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| I hate .NET, so I lied about having it installed and chose "No, I do not have .NET installed" because .NET is bloody terrible and awful. I hope .NET brings upon armageddon so I don't have to live in a world where .NET exists. Damn it! | |||
bbitmaster Koopa Level: 18  Posts: 19/103 EXP: 25264 For next: 4633 Since: 03-28-04 From: Knoxville, tTN Since last post: 12 days Last activity: 7 days |
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| I'm kind of two sided on this. I do see para's point and think .NET is just an overall bloated and terrible compiler when compared to MinGW. But honestly, I've seen terrible bugs in both compilers. _hyde_ found a pretty big one in .net and I think it was over a simple if statement in a for loop. Xod found one in MinGW, it wasn't compiling FCEUXD correctly! I reommend to anyone using .NET only that they atleast try MinGW and get familar with makefiles. If you prefer to switch back afterwards, then go ahead. But atleast know the other side of things. I think both compilers have some pretty big advantages and disasdavtages. For this reason, the best route for me to go is to have any programs I make in the future be compilable with both compilers. By doing so, I'll really be getting the best out of both. Having two compilers look at my program will help insure its integrity. And also, if one compiler does have a bug or if it doesn't do somethign right, I'll be able to tell that it is the compiler, and not my source. |
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Jesper Busy, busy, busy. Level: 69  Posts: 842/2390 EXP: 2856000 For next: 13743 Since: 03-15-04 From: Sweden. Since last post: 176 days Last activity: 79 days |
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Originally posted by ParasyteIt's really a matter of ubiquitousity. Who the hell wanted to download Java in 1995 to see those piddly little applets?  As someone with a little experience in both .NET and Java, I think they are pretty equal when looking at functionality. One is not inherently worse than the other unless you hate either of Microsoft or Sun outright. Java is available pretty much everywhere. Soon .NET will be available pretty much everywhere. Not this year, not next year, maybe the year after that. For better or worse, Microsoft is not going to write much more 'native' code. In the next few years, more and more apps will be migrating to .NET. Either you can stay in the 90's (  ) and use only native compiled apps or you could install .NET - it steals 30 minutes of your life, unless you're on dialup, in which case it steals up to 5 hours of your life - and don't ever need to give a fuck about if your apps are native or .NET again.I guess one could question the sanity of the fuckers who decided to go with a 30MB runtime instead of linking, but it's really not anything we can do about it that will root all that up and change it tomorrow or even next year. And I agree with Garmichael. .NET is horrible for websites. I quite like the way it functions for apps though. Lastly, consider this. In a few years, when the Mono project has catched up and .NET has gained widespread use (through bundling with Windows, hopefully - the VB runtimes are bundled and so's the Win32 API), you as a programmer will be able to code one version for Mac, Linux and Windows, just like with Java. Does that sound evil to you? |
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Kagerato Goomba Level: 9 Posts: 20/25 EXP: 2655 For next: 507 Since: 08-08-04 Since last post: 382 days Last activity: 29 days |
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| There are two advantages to utilizing a runtime instead of standalone executables: smaller executable size and the possibility of portability. Whether Microsoft will support the .NET runtime as it becomes (widely) available on other platforms is yet to be seen; my guess is no. The obvious disadvantage to runtimes is that they're a large download. .NET is about 22.5 mbyte. The Windows GTK binaries compact into 6.7 mbyte; when you decompress them, they occupy about the same space. Personally I believe it was a mistake to jump into .NET so soon, before the major platform (XP) provided the runtime natively. However, Longhorn and future versions of Windows will definitely have .NET available, integrated with the system (simply because a lot of the code on the next-generation operating systems will be for the .NET platform). I'm not sure how many people have noticed, but Borland (developer of a lot of high quality programming tools for numerous languages and environments) is moving to .NET as well. Delphi 8 is for .NET, and the company has also introduced a C#Builder for the platform. At first, all this jumping to a foreign new environment scared and infuriated me. However, I've now accepted it as just another stage of development. Interpreted languages (or rather, languages which require an interpreter of some kind), and platforms dependent on a central runtime, are slowly but surely beginning to dominate the programming sector. Java was/is the popular pioneer. But there is also Python and Perl. The Internet has rejected traditional languages, and is now almost consumed with numerous implementations of never-compiled scripts. If you don't like this course, I suggest moving over to a unix-like system. Several Linux/GNU distributions I've tried are still heavily tied down in compiled languages (99.9% C/C++), and there are no signs of that changing in the near future. |
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dan Snap Dragon Level: 43  Posts: 163/782 EXP: 534516 For next: 30530 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 20 hours Last activity: 14 hours |
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| Write your program using whatever you are most comfortable with. Besides, you can't really convert VB.net/C# to a non runtime language anyways. (VB.net isn't anything like original VB, and C# can only really be converted to Java, which uses the JRE obviously) | |||
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HyperLamer <||bass> and this was the soloution i thought of that was guarinteed to piss off the greatest amount of people Sesshomaru Tamaranian Level: 118 Posts: 1529/8210 EXP: 18171887 For next: 211027 Since: 03-15-04 From: Canada, w00t! LOL FAD Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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Originally posted by Parasyte Agreed, the hell if I'm installing .NET. It's like a runtime on top of a runtime. |
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Kitten Yiffer Purple wand Furry moderator Vivent l'exp����¯�¿�½������©rience de signalisation d'amusement, ou bien ! Level: 135 Posts: 4773/11162 EXP: 28824106 For next: 510899 Since: 03-15-04 From: Sweden Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 4 min. |
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| But unlike Java, .NET is just for one platform (Windows) right? ... Jesper says something about Novell devoloping a solution for Linux and Mac OS X hmm.  I really don't mind it, as long it's not slow *cough*VB*cough*. |
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Geiger Buster Beetle Level: 34  Posts: 103/460 EXP: 241080 For next: 12571 Since: 03-15-04 From: Indianapolis, IN, USA Since last post: 6 hours Last activity: 6 hours |
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| Since I do all of my projects in C#, it should be fairly easy to guess which platform got my vote. And no, .NET is not necessarily Windows specific. ---Evil Peer |
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Jesper Busy, busy, busy. Level: 69 Posts: 848/2390 EXP: 2856000 For next: 13743 Since: 03-15-04 From: Sweden. Since last post: 176 days Last activity: 79 days |
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| Again... I suppose, since you all hate runtimes, you really must be manually removing all VB runtimes and Java runtimes from your systems, HyperHacker and Parasyte, right? Because otherwise you'd be hypocrites, right? Yes, Kitten Yiffer, Mono is that project to bring .NET to Linux and Mac OS X, and Evil Peer provided a link to it. Kagerato also pretty much mirrored my thoughts - it was very stupid to not bundle .NET with XP, and it's not like they're going to stop developing for .NET now, so you'd all just be better off by actually downloading the runtime. Answer these questions: what makes downloading .NET inherently more evil/bad/whatever than Java? What makes USING .NET more evil than Java? I don't believe I've ever gotten a logical answer to that, just xenophobia. And if you seriously believe that just because they're Microsoft they can't develop something good, you just may be a moron. (edited by Jesper on 09-07-04 06:00 AM) |
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Parasyte Bullet Bill Level: 35 Posts: 147/514 EXP: 267348 For next: 12588 Since: 05-25-04 Since last post: 104 days Last activity: 32 days |
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Originally posted by Jesper Hmm, perhaps you missed the part where I mentioned lying about having .NET installed. So, that answered your question. Just because I hate it doesn't mean I am not forced to use it every now and then -- that's just life. On the bright side, .NET's existence does not mean I have to write programs for it. That would be absolutely ridiculous. Personally, I cannot imagine why anyone would really want to go solely with interpreted applications. There's a lot of damn power in computer hardware these days, so why not make full use of it? I know I certainly don't want a high-end emulator or game running under interpretation. That would suck, no matter how many instructions per second your CPU could pull; because in the end, you're just wasting CPU cycles... CPU cycles which could be put to good use. (See http://www.distributed.net/ and similar projects.) On the other hand, it's an interesting attempt to bring multi-platform applications into a single package. Somehow that still doesn't make up for the cons. Two big thumbs down. P.S. .NET and Java are equally ludicrous. I do not care for either in the least. |
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Gavin Fuzzy Rhinoceruses don't play games. They fucking charge your ass. Level: 43  Posts: 174/799 EXP: 551711 For next: 13335 Since: 03-15-04 From: IL, USA Since last post: 13 hours Last activity: 13 hours |
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| hah, yah. i was going to say, i was never very fond of java either |
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Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101  Posts: 2046/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
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| What the hell is this doing in Rom Hacking? | |||
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Geiger Buster Beetle Level: 34 Posts: 104/460 EXP: 241080 For next: 12571 Since: 03-15-04 From: Indianapolis, IN, USA Since last post: 6 hours Last activity: 6 hours |
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Originally posted by Parasyte Well, in a sense, it still is. Just not all of that power is going towards the execution of one's code. Some of it is used to make sure the program does not seg fault or corrupt memory or take the system down. Garbage collection eliminates most memory leaks. Its a tradeoff of performance for a better working program (which is an issue for any platform). Its important to note that if one's program is good enough, people will use it anyway despite it's .NET status. This I know from experience with Peer TBL Editor. ---Evil Peer (edited by Evil Peer on 09-07-04 11:20 AM) |
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Jesper Busy, busy, busy. Level: 69 Posts: 850/2390 EXP: 2856000 For next: 13743 Since: 03-15-04 From: Sweden. Since last post: 176 days Last activity: 79 days |
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Originally posted by ParasyteOn the bright side, the existance of thousands of programming language / compiler/interpreter combinations does not force me to develop for any of them at all. So yes, that would be ridiculous. And no, I didn't miss that part. I just hate unnecessary dogma - which could easily be seen as UNIX/whatever-loving asshattery. If you have your reasons, then for god's sake, say so. How are we to be able to distinguish you from people talking out of their asses just because they don't like Microsoft, and how are we to learn from or understand your reasons if you won't mention them? Granted, the "xenophobia" thing was a bait. I was truly interested in seeing what a ROM hacking veteran like yourself was thinking. Originally posted by ParasyteThe big idea with interpreted apps the way I see it is that you waste a small amount (a few percent?) of your CPU cycles in order to make it possible that you can write once, run anywhere. In .NET's case, Microsoft touted this as a big feature with .NET, and no, they didn't release any alternative implementations. This could be because of either or some or all of these reasons:
Originally posted by ParasyteFair enough. Legion, good point. *moves to programming* |
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FreeDOS Lava Lotus Wannabe-Mod :< Level: 59 Posts: 698/1657 EXP: 1648646 For next: 24482 Since: 03-15-04 From: Seattle Since last post: 6 hours Last activity: 4 hours |
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| I don't even have Windows! I use Linux... Microsoft will never port .NET to Linux. (edited by FreeDOS on 09-07-04 01:41 PM) |
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Jesper Busy, busy, busy. Level: 69 Posts: 856/2390 EXP: 2856000 For next: 13743 Since: 03-15-04 From: Sweden. Since last post: 176 days Last activity: 79 days |
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Originally posted by FreeDOSMono? (Quick edit for clarity: Yes, I know Microsoft isn't maintaining Mono. But this question is a bit like saying in a GUI discussion in 1984 that "I don't care, PCs will never have a Mac GUI anyway.")(edited by Jesper on 09-07-04 03:16 PM) |
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| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - Programming - .NET or not to dot net? |
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