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Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - Rom Hacking - EggVine - v0.81 released | | | |
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Jesper Busy, busy, busy. Level: 69 Posts: 795/2390 EXP: 2856000 For next: 13743 Since: 03-15-04 From: Sweden. Since last post: 176 days Last activity: 79 days |
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As a GUI mechanic on this program I feel qualified to answer some of these questions. Originally posted by HyperHackerYes. You also didn't note that one can't use the scrolling wheel, etc. We're working on it. Originally posted by HyperHackerWorking on it. For that to really make sense we'd need to make it dockable or something. If anyone has ideas, you're free to PM me about how it should work. Originally posted by HyperHackerAgain, working on it. We don't want it always on top. Maybe that should be a checkbox in the window. Originally posted by HyperHackerNo. We specifically created a level menu to collect all level-related tasks in there. The File menu is a file menu. A level is not a file - rather a portion of it. One could argue that Load goes to a different portion of the file and that Save is a Save for the whole ROM of sorts, but currently, we're not doing that, and probably won't be unless I see clear guidelines to the contrary. And no, I don't care if LM does it in the File menu. Originally posted by HyperHackerThat was my first reported bug as well. More as it develops. Originally posted by HyperHackerThis is on the todo list. We'll also be saving the .dat files as resources in the program with the option to extract them to .dat files again so you can change them. Originally posted by HyperHackerI'll see for how long he wants to keep this in. Originally posted by HyperHackerBug. Yes. Originally posted by HyperHackerI'd opt in favor of both, because both are needed when distinguishing open copies. As for the tooltips, they're currently drawn inside the level area instead of being spawned like usual Windows tooltips. We'll see what we can do. |
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Squash Monster New Age Retro Hippie Togateiru Fohku Kohgeki!! GRUNGE no HAMSTER otona bite Peace love and turnpike! Level: 40 Posts: 362/677 EXP: 430507 For next: 10802 Since: 03-15-04 From: Maryland (of the Country Between Canada and Mexico) Since last post: 5 hours Last activity: 5 hours |
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I like a lot of your suggestions, but school and a broken computer are in my way right now. -Nice way to confirm clearing the level. Thanks. -Either it won't switch to Screen Exit Mode, or the menu's not showing that it has. I see no difference. I remember it working. It should show up to the side. -The Small Grid and Transparent Wireblocks options pwn. Thanks again. -The Stationary Tooltip option is buggy, the tooltip flickers in its original position. It's also ugly. I'm pretty sure I know how to fix that, at least. -After changing Zoom to 4x, then to 8x, the vertical scrollbar is disabled. Ono. Eep. I have a rough idea of how to fix that, but it doesn't help much right now. -That startup message really isn't necessary every time, use the registry to save whether the program's been run before. I'll probably use a .ini file instead. However, yes, you're right. -"Fetch Me A Badger". You'd better believe it. -The About screen really doesn't need a Cancel button. And I don't need a badger fetcher. I think that screen will be used infrequently enough for people to get anoyed by the cancel's impoliteness though. -When the program is first opened, neither Cross-Section Mode or Screen Exit Mode are checked. Should they be? -The tooltips get cut off at the edge of the editing area. I can fix that if I know how to figure out how high a line of text is. -Resizing objects is touchy and seems to take a few tries. Getting the cursor right on the corner is a pain, and the object should be redrawn as it's resized. It could've swore it was redrawn while being resized. As for the area you have to get it in being too small, I can easily make it something like Zoom. Otherwise, yeah, Jesper knows what he's talking about. |
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HyperLamer <||bass> and this was the soloution i thought of that was guarinteed to piss off the greatest amount of people Sesshomaru Tamaranian Level: 118 Posts: 1489/8210 EXP: 18171887 For next: 211027 Since: 03-15-04 From: Canada, w00t! LOL FAD Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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Originally posted by Jesper I personally consider it a sort of standard. The first menu is always File, and the Load, Save and Exit options are always in it. This is true of 99% of programs I've seen. Originally posted by Squash Monster Well, yeah. It always has to be in one of those modes, doesn't it? It makes sense to always show which mode that is. |
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Jesper Busy, busy, busy. Level: 69 Posts: 805/2390 EXP: 2856000 For next: 13743 Since: 03-15-04 From: Sweden. Since last post: 176 days Last activity: 79 days |
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Originally posted by HyperHackerYes, but that's for saving and loading - Open - the entire file. For EggVine, this entire file is the ROM, and it's not practical to put Save in there, because all the other parts of the program Save by themselves. And no, this is no excuse to put Load/Save Level commands in there, because, by golly, then we'd have to put all the other commands that load or save data there too.Originally posted by Jesper Let's be blunt. This is semantics. All programs have menu options that can be argued should be in a different menu. In a late beta (0.60?), Quit was still in its own EggVine menu on the left, a la Mac OS X. Looking at it from a totally neutral point of view it makes sense, because Quit applies to the whole program, but it's not standard in Windows. You will probably always demand it there, which I respect, but I don't agree with you, and from what I can remember of our conversations, neither do Squash Monster. Do you also demand the Paragraph option in Word on the File menu too? Because, hey, it loads and saves data from the portion of the file, just like Level loading and saving! (Yes, I know that it's not strictly true because Word won't save anything before you hit Save explicitly.) |
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Squash Monster New Age Retro Hippie Togateiru Fohku Kohgeki!! GRUNGE no HAMSTER otona bite Peace love and turnpike! Level: 40 Posts: 365/677 EXP: 430507 For next: 10802 Since: 03-15-04 From: Maryland (of the Country Between Canada and Mexico) Since last post: 5 hours Last activity: 5 hours |
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Indeed, up untill 0.60, the menu system wasn't all too great. The OS X styled EggVine and File menus were probably the most reasonable ones in the set. Jesper's version offers what I consider to be a good balence of familiarity and logic. I like the OS X style of menu divisions. I also tend to like OS X in general, but anyone who's seen my screenshots knows that. EDIT: Sorry I missed this part: Originally posted by HyperHackerOriginally posted by Squash Monster No, it doesn't have to always be in one of those modes. Screen Exit mode turns on the screen exit editing bit to the side. Cross-section mode makes objects marked as cross-section peices in the data file turn into dotted outlines and become impossible to edit (which is usefull if they're supposed to be on top of everything). (edited by Squash Monster on 09-04-04 09:27 AM) |
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Jesper Busy, busy, busy. Level: 69 Posts: 825/2390 EXP: 2856000 For next: 13743 Since: 03-15-04 From: Sweden. Since last post: 176 days Last activity: 79 days |
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*bump* This is the recommended thread in which to post EggVine posts. | |||
Squash Monster New Age Retro Hippie Togateiru Fohku Kohgeki!! GRUNGE no HAMSTER otona bite Peace love and turnpike! Level: 40 Posts: 367/677 EXP: 430507 For next: 10802 Since: 03-15-04 From: Maryland (of the Country Between Canada and Mexico) Since last post: 5 hours Last activity: 5 hours |
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Ah good, now I can post again, thanks Jesper. Now that my computer works and I've got a weekend to waste, I've started moving on the program again. These are new fixes, as they're listed in BugStatus.txt:
Otherwise, does anyone know why the following sub never seems to run?
(edited by Squash Monster on 09-04-04 11:14 AM) |
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dan Snap Dragon Level: 43 Posts: 159/782 EXP: 534516 For next: 30530 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 20 hours Last activity: 14 hours |
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Has your form's KeyPreview property been set to True? | |||
knuck Hinox Banned until 19-58-5815: trolling, flaming, spamming, being a general fucktard... Level: 62 Posts: 703/1818 EXP: 1894574 For next: 90112 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 14 hours Last activity: 9 hours |
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Originally posted by JesperLM and other 3874938 programs. No one here cares if you want to make it so different from LM. However we want something that we are used to in ANY program. Do you see Photsohop save function in the "Image" menu? Wow, just noticed that this post was from 3 days ago... |
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Squash Monster New Age Retro Hippie Togateiru Fohku Kohgeki!! GRUNGE no HAMSTER otona bite Peace love and turnpike! Level: 40 Posts: 369/677 EXP: 430507 For next: 10802 Since: 03-15-04 From: Maryland (of the Country Between Canada and Mexico) Since last post: 5 hours Last activity: 5 hours |
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dan: Nope, that wasn't the problem. I fixed it (though I'm still not sure what was broken), and it works partially now. knuck: If no programs ever deviated from the established standard, EggVine would be command-prompt driven. |
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Jesper Busy, busy, busy. Level: 69 Posts: 828/2390 EXP: 2856000 For next: 13743 Since: 03-15-04 From: Sweden. Since last post: 176 days Last activity: 79 days |
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Originally posted by knuckAn image in PS is the active document. A level in EggVine is just part of the active 'document'. |
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knuck Hinox Banned until 19-58-5815: trolling, flaming, spamming, being a general fucktard... Level: 62 Posts: 706/1818 EXP: 1894574 For next: 90112 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 14 hours Last activity: 9 hours |
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Originally posted by JesperNope, palletes are other document. As much as config, filter etc. Anyway, why keep something that no one likes? |
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Gavin Fuzzy Rhinoceruses don't play games. They fucking charge your ass. Level: 43 Posts: 157/799 EXP: 551711 For next: 13335 Since: 03-15-04 From: IL, USA Since last post: 13 hours Last activity: 13 hours |
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Originally posted by knuckOriginally posted by Jesper |
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knuck Hinox Banned until 19-58-5815: trolling, flaming, spamming, being a general fucktard... Level: 62 Posts: 707/1818 EXP: 1894574 For next: 90112 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 14 hours Last activity: 9 hours |
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Originally posted by GavinUh, do you think that if they wasn't getting paid they would put it in the Image menu? hah Also i don't care if it's their generosity and if i'm god or not. I'm giving my opinion kthx. |
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HyperLamer <||bass> and this was the soloution i thought of that was guarinteed to piss off the greatest amount of people Sesshomaru Tamaranian Level: 118 Posts: 1509/8210 EXP: 18171887 For next: 211027 Since: 03-15-04 From: Canada, w00t! LOL FAD Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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Well, heck, if Squash wasn't making one, I would be. | |||
Gavin Fuzzy Rhinoceruses don't play games. They fucking charge your ass. Level: 43 Posts: 158/799 EXP: 551711 For next: 13335 Since: 03-15-04 From: IL, USA Since last post: 13 hours Last activity: 13 hours |
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Originally posted by knuckUh, do you think that if they wasn't getting paid they would put it in the Image menu? if they fucking felt like it |
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Jesper Busy, busy, busy. Level: 69 Posts: 833/2390 EXP: 2856000 For next: 13743 Since: 03-15-04 From: Sweden. Since last post: 176 days Last activity: 79 days |
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Okay, shut up for just a second. Here's what you do. In Photoshop when you want to edit an image you load an image file. But in EggVine when you want to edit a level, it's not its own file. You open its ROM, and THEN you pick a level to edit within it. Therefore, with regards to opening and saving, the ROM plays the same role in EggVine as the Image does in Photoshop. Levels could be seen, I guess, as layers, and layers "save themselves" in Photoshop along with the file, but that would be impractical in EggVine, and so we instead work with the way of saving the parts of the ROM you've changed explicitly. In short, an image in Photoshop IS your open file. A level in EggVine is just a part of the open file. The ROM is the open file. |
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knuck Hinox Banned until 19-58-5815: trolling, flaming, spamming, being a general fucktard... Level: 62 Posts: 708/1818 EXP: 1894574 For next: 90112 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 14 hours Last activity: 9 hours |
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Originally posted by JesperIn Photoshop you need to open an image in order to edit it's pallete. Yet you save it in the File menu. (edited by knuck on 09-05-04 12:50 PM) |
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Jesper Busy, busy, busy. Level: 69 Posts: 836/2390 EXP: 2856000 For next: 13743 Since: 03-15-04 From: Sweden. Since last post: 176 days Last activity: 79 days |
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True. But Photoshop came out on the Mac first, and on the Mac they put every Save/Open action that writes to file - regardless if it's on a fraction of the file or on the whole file or to several files - in the File menu. This is not the Mac. If this was the Mac, there'd still be an EggVine menu with Quit in it. I'm not going to change this unless I get some very convincing arguments, and while I've heard some good points, most of them do not apply entirely. It's simply not practical to stack up a buffer of everything and use a global Save command to save it. And when it's not one command to save the whole file, I think the Save commands will fit better in their respective menus than in the File menu. |
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knuck Hinox Banned until 19-58-5815: trolling, flaming, spamming, being a general fucktard... Level: 62 Posts: 709/1818 EXP: 1894574 For next: 90112 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 14 hours Last activity: 9 hours |
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Originally posted by Jesper"File>Save Level to ROM..." (edited by knuck on 09-05-04 01:09 PM) |
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Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - Rom Hacking - EggVine - v0.81 released | | | |