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2 users currently in General Chat:  Dark Vampriel |
| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - General Chat - Ethics: Is an animal’s life worth a human’s? |
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kornfan There's a BARB in my EYE! No reregistering, Mr. Permabanned! Level: 38  Posts: 128/622 EXP: 344540 For next: 25907 Since: 06-27-04 From: the middle of fu**ing nowhere... Since last post: 414 days Last activity: 297 days |
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| But the human being STILL HAS A SOUL! Hitler himself had a soul, and could have been saved. Once again, this becomes a religious argument. It just all depends on the individual people. Some people are clinical sociopaths, and don't have ethics. What about them? | |||
Grey the Stampede Don't mess with powers you don't understand. And yes. That means donuts. Level: 82  Posts: 107/3770 EXP: 5192909 For next: 16318 Since: 06-17-04 From: Kingston, RI, USA, Earth Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
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| I think this is getting out of hand. D1, You'd save the human over the dog. Good. I'd save both at once, not placing priority over each. Good. Some people would save the dog. Good. This is an opinion subject. Just that. Opinions. Everyone has one, if each one were the same then they wouldn't be opinions. I'm tired of trying to defend my position or anyone else's from what you believe, because frankly a 16 year old kid that you're having an argument with over the internet isn't gonna change your beliefs. I just don't agree with you. You don't agree with me. That's it. Nothing more, nothing less. Can't we agree to disagree? |
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kornfan There's a BARB in my EYE! No reregistering, Mr. Permabanned! Level: 38 Posts: 134/622 EXP: 344540 For next: 25907 Since: 06-27-04 From: the middle of fu**ing nowhere... Since last post: 414 days Last activity: 297 days |
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| Sounds like a plan to me. Until a dog and a person are actually drowning, I don't think that this particular argument is valid. | |||
alte Hexe Star Mario I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night Alive as you and me "But Joe you're ten years dead!" "I never died" said he "I never died!" said he Level: 99  Posts: 844/5458 EXP: 9854489 For next: 145511 Since: 03-15-04 From: ... Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| I'm the top of the food chain, my species had to evolve special ways to get here. We're making nature our bitch, and as such, I'm the dominant life form of this planet. From this perspective, what should I care if a lower creature is killed or for that matter a single one out of the 7 billion of us that there are? A single person or creature is never a big loss. As for myself, I'd probably walk off and let the human and dog work together. Really, I just don't care. |
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Prier Archangel Administrative Priestess. NUCLEAR SUB WEEEOOOO Level: 119  Posts: 1998/8392 EXP: 18790939 For next: 138352 Since: 03-15-04 From: Nerima Dist. - Tokyo, Japan Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 1 day |
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Originally posted by EvillerLegion Owch. So if they had any significance in your life you still wouldn't do anything for them? |
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Alastor the Stylish Hey! I made a cool game! It's called "I poisoned half the food, so if you eat you might die!" Have a taco.  Level: 114  Posts: 1631/7620 EXP: 16258468 For next: 51099 Since: 03-15-04 From: Oregon, US Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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Originally posted by Disturbed1So, what, do you just not know what "hypothetical" means? |
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Chickenlump Level: 41  Posts: 264/722 EXP: 474192 For next: 5953 Since: 03-15-04 From: Columbia City Indiana Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 4 min. |
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| I'd swim over to the guy, use him as a raft to save the dog, and discard the bum's lifeless corpse when I no longer have use for him, and the dog is safe on land. Happiness is a warm puppy. *huggles puppies* |
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psilocybin Goomba Level: 9  Posts: 6/25 EXP: 2741 For next: 421 Since: 07-09-04 From: Inside my head Since last post: 465 days Last activity: 224 days |
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| I'd say that humans have been rather arrogant and brutal with animals in recent history. Now, I'm not against eating meat and the like, but thinking of the means by which we acquire all of this meat(such as veal and hog farms) kind of makes me sick and I try my best to avoid financially supporting it. It's also a rather bold assumption to presume that animals have no soul. |
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Apple Kodondo Level: 38 Posts: 123/594 EXP: 350163 For next: 20284 Since: 03-27-04 From: Washington. Since last post: 264 days Last activity: 152 days |
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| Animals have souls; all living things have a soul. Whether it is be a human, a dog, a plant, or an insect. That | |||
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Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101  Posts: 1239/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
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| Like it's been mentioned before, the dog would most likely swim to safety anyway. NSNick, I already thought of that but forgot to type it. I figure that the risk of that happening is worth the chance of the good part coming true. |
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Jagori Flurry Level: 27 Posts: 100/267 EXP: 103625 For next: 12534 Since: 04-17-04 Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 2 hours |
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| I think the idea behind the question was that neither the dog nor the human would survive without your help, and there's no way you can save both. It's an ethical question; you're not supposed to have a moral 'escape route' like "the dog can swim" or "I'd save them both" because that defeats the entire purpose of the question. That being said, I'd save the person unless there were some extenuating circumstances. If I was a dog, I'd probably save the dog first. In situations where you have no idea what to do, instinct kicks in. | |||
Ephrion Micro-Goomba Level: 7 Posts: 1/13 EXP: 1027 For next: 421 Since: 07-10-04 From: Georgia Since last post: 141 days Last activity: 141 days |
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| I'm going to have to side with Silvershield in this, in that "Humans > Animals". But what seperates humans from animals is not having the physical properties of a human, after all, humans, physically, are little more than shaved apes. It's the mind that counts, and the behaviours. Likewise, not all homo sapiens are actually human. Hitler was not a human. So I'd need more clarification to the question: A dog, versus a human, or a dog, versus a homo sapien? In the former case, the human wins. In the latter, the homo sapien would win unless I have emotional attachment to the dog. As for the ants, they're so incredibly below human life that it wouldn't start to be a crime until the enviromental effects caused enough damage to harm humans. |
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Suri Bear Keese Level: 19  Posts: 41/123 EXP: 30299 For next: 5478 Since: 06-27-04 From: Killa-Kali Since last post: 71 days Last activity: 68 days |
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| In My Opinion: I do believe that a dog has a soul just like any Human. They have feelings and bleed just like any human. Just because they can't talk English or whatever language doesn't mean they don't feel and don't get hurt in different ways. They have their own ways to grieve and talk, yet are somehow similar to the ways of the human. They find their ways to get by just with what they have. They tend to use tools (their paws or even jaws--hey that rhymed XDD) to dig or find food, just like any human... But then again... maybe I'm just saying this because I'm an animal person. Who knows? But one thing I do know is that everyone has their own opinion and point of view. Those are just my 2 cents.. _SuriBear_ |
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Alastor the Stylish Hey! I made a cool game! It's called "I poisoned half the food, so if you eat you might die!" Have a taco. Level: 114 Posts: 1646/7620 EXP: 16258468 For next: 51099 Since: 03-15-04 From: Oregon, US Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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Originally posted by Ephrion>>>>>>>>XD >>>>>>>>>>XD Thank you, that was hilarious. I believe what you meant to say is that Hitler was inhumanly cruel. |
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Ephrion Micro-Goomba Level: 7 Posts: 5/13 EXP: 1027 For next: 421 Since: 07-10-04 From: Georgia Since last post: 141 days Last activity: 141 days |
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Originally posted by Kyouji CrawOriginally posted by Ephrion>>>>>>>>XD No, what I meant to say was that Hitler disqualified himself the right to be considered above an animal. He -was- a homo sapien, but I hold that there is a distinction between a homo sapien and a human. |
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Alastor the Stylish Hey! I made a cool game! It's called "I poisoned half the food, so if you eat you might die!" Have a taco. Level: 114 Posts: 1649/7620 EXP: 16258468 For next: 51099 Since: 03-15-04 From: Oregon, US Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| Well you see, Hitler wasn't really a bad person. He believed what he was doing was right. It was for his country. Plus there's the fact that he was generally considered to be insane. I'm not saying he didn't do an uncountable amount of bad things, but I wouldn't call someone evil just because their beliefs are hilariously skewed. |
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Kasumi-Astra Administrator Level: 62  Posts: 512/1867 EXP: 1971846 For next: 12840 Since: 03-15-04 From: Reading, UK Uni: Sheffield, UK Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 12 hours |
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| To say that he is not human would be to deny the fact that humans have the capacity to be insanely evil. He would be a perfect example of a person that we'd want to forget, but if we do forget, then history will be doomed to repeat itself. |
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alte Hexe Star Mario I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night Alive as you and me "But Joe you're ten years dead!" "I never died" said he "I never died!" said he Level: 99 Posts: 845/5458 EXP: 9854489 For next: 145511 Since: 03-15-04 From: ... Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| Really, in the situation, it would depend on my mood. Am I out walking after getting into a fight with a girl? If that is the case, the dog might be my instinct (but probably not). Was I just nipped on the nose by some cur? If that is the case I'll definitely get the human. Also, it is probably safer to get the humans, this is from real-life experience. Frightened dogs that are being helped by people other than their owner will often see that as a threat, and will become agitated or further frightened. Thus, the dog could turn and maul you a good bit (depending on the breed). The factors of this question expand beyond ethics and go into personal preferences and experiences. Really, I think that mankind is the master of this Earth, and all else was created for us. Although we should not be abusing it... |
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Slash Dafter Kodondo Level: 38  Posts: 469/584 EXP: 338934 For next: 31513 Since: 04-04-04 From: E. Millinocket, ME Since last post: 9 hours Last activity: 9 hours |
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| 1. Hated Rival or Dog: I'd save my rival only under the condition they don't give me anymore shit ever again. But since there's a snowball's chance in hell that would happen, I'll save my dog. 2. How Many Ants = One Human Murder: Only one, the queen. (edited by Slash Dafter on 07-09-04 09:51 PM) |
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Silvershield Slime Level: 30 Posts: 288/345 EXP: 153029 For next: 12840 Since: 04-11-04 From: New Jersey Since last post: 60 days Last activity: 6 hours |
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Pardon my absence, but I've been touring colleges in the Boston region for a couple of days. I have a ton to respond to, so bear with me as I insert a number of quotes.Originally posted by mrmenzYou say that an animal's life can be of more value than a human's, and then you immediately comment that it is wrong to place value on a life. I think you may've had your thoughts straight, but they got a bit mixed up upon writing them down  . Later, you imply that an animal's tendency towards unconditional love - which, mind you, is not always the best thing - gives the animal some innate superiority over humans or, at the very least, a greater desirability when it comes to choosing between the preservation of the dog's life or the human's. I think that is ludicrous.Originally posted by RankoThough I thought otherwise, it seems that I failed to clarify my use of genetic material as a qualifying factor for life. You see, I used DNA as a prerequisite because it fit the situation as far as providing a common trait which all lifeforms possess. I didn't intend it to be seen as the trait which qualifies a being as a living entity, just as a common ground that all current living creatures happen to share. Originally posted by LegionI never said that we were better than animals from a behavioral standpoint, and I apologize if that was implied. We are more certainly above them in terms of intellect, though if an animal had morals then it might (or might not) be superior to a human in that field. Originally posted by LegionAnd why do you think emotions qualify a creature as having a soul? Of course, humans have emotions, but you speak as if there is no distinction between the mind of a human and that of an animal. There is, in fact, a huge difference: intellect. Emotions - fear, joy, hate - are at the foundation of instict, but the advanced intellect that solely (heh, pun intended again) humans possess is what distinguishes us. And I thought I'd been quite clear: the dictionary excerpt was not part of my argument, as I do not see such a method as an intelligent way to conduct a discussion. I included it because, unlike myself, many people put stock in that. Originally posted by GreyOur dominion is based upon our technology, and the brainpower used to develop it. It's ridiculous to state that, because a human cannot defeat a wolf or other canine in a match of strength and teeth, we are inferior. Such a battle would allow an animal to utilize its strengths, while giving no such opportunity to the human. I think a human would win in a game of chess but, again, is that a fair fight? And, whether it is a pompous attitude or not, we are the rulers of this planet. We are "weak" because we have no claws or teeth, but we dominate every other species through strength of mind. Originally posted by EvillerLegionFunniest thing I've heard all day  .Originally posted by Apple...I have a heart, but I would hope that, if that unfortunate situation ever came to pass, I would be comforted with the knowledge that I did the right thing. Nothing to feel guilty about there, though perhaps I would lament the misfortune of the entire scenario. Originally posted by LegionNot to single you out, because several people have made similar comments, but...Legion, you're a smart guy, I would not have expected you to take the question and make it a matter of moral convenience. You know that the dilemma is not whether the dog or the human can swim, but it is a test of, when posed with a decision, which of the two choices you would make. Perhaps the question would be better stated as follows: A dog and a human are in peril. You have the ability to save one but, in doing so, the other will perish. Since this situation is not occuring in real life or in real time, thoughtfully consider your moral standpoint and decide which path more closely fits your beliefs. You see, mainly, it allows no room to escape the question; at its base, all the question asks is which life is of more value to you. However, secondarily, it is made clear that this is not the path you would take if forced to make a spontaneous, instinctive, split-second decision. Instead, it is what you would do if you had all the time you needed to consider which option was "correct." This is not a question of your ability to make good decisions when put under pressure, but purely a measure of your moral stance. Originally posted by Suri BearAs I said above when responding to Legion, I do not deny the notion that an animal feels emotion. It is intellect that separates us. Originally posted by Slash DafterAlright, queen or not, the death of an ant is not equivalent to the death of a human. |
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| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - General Chat - Ethics: Is an animal’s life worth a human’s? |
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