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| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - Programming - Delphi 5 or Visual Basic 6? |
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Which, in your opinion, is best?| Delphi 5 |
16.7%, 3 votes | Visual Basic 6 |
33.3%, 6 votes | Make up your own mind. |
5.6%, 1 vote | Real programs are made with gcc |
44.4%, 8 votes | Multi-voting is disabled.
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FreeDOS Lava Lotus Wannabe-Mod :< Level: 59 Posts: 508/1657 EXP: 1648646 For next: 24482 Since: 03-15-04 From: Seattle Since last post: 6 hours Last activity: 4 hours |
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| I have both Delphi 5 and Visual Basic 6. I've used Delphi 4 before (not 5), but never Visual Basic. Which, in your opinion, is better to use? Also, I have VB6 Learning Edition. Does it compromise usability at all? The last option is for if you think both suck, and I need to use C/C++  |
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neotransotaku Baby Mario 戻れたら、 誰も気が付く Level: 87 Posts: 717/4016 EXP: 6220548 For next: 172226 Since: 03-15-04 From: Outside of Time/Space Since last post: 11 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
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| VB isn't a very hard language (or IDE) to learn. But in practice is not used widely. Delphi is a pascal derivative so I'm not sure how difficult is to learn but I do not know of any places that use Delphi. As for C/C++, it is use extensively in many places and for many things. C/C++ code runs better than VB (not sure about delphi) because they are not dependent on runtimes unless you make them that way. My take is this--learn C/C++ first if you want to be some sort of programmer as a profession. Otherwise, learn VB for faster results and possibly less headache. |
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sloat Level: 16 Posts: 1/85 EXP: 18044 For next: 2212 Since: 05-21-04 From: South Central Delaware Since last post: 19 days Last activity: 5 hours |
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| VB is slow and limited. Delphi is crap. In fact, just stay away from Borland altogether. GCC is good (not that good for windows), but you'll tear your hair out using it. Well...that's my opinion anyway. I voted for gcc, but you should really just pick the one that you like the most. |
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dan Snap Dragon Level: 43  Posts: 81/782 EXP: 534516 For next: 30530 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 20 hours Last activity: 14 hours |
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| Depends on what you want to learn it for. If you want to learn something to help you get a job, then C/C++ is the way to go. However, if you just want to write quick, dirty Windows applications, then something like Delphi/Visual Basic would be better to learn. Don't learn Visual Basic though, as it's a pointless dead language that has no future. Plus, it's crap. So, yeah, learn Delphi.  No runtimes, and it produces programs that run as fast as most C/C++ programs. |
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Parasyte Bullet Bill Level: 35  Posts: 64/514 EXP: 267348 For next: 12588 Since: 05-25-04 Since last post: 104 days Last activity: 32 days |
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| Delphi is a pretty easy-to-learn language, I suppose, and Dan does have a point about it being compiled to nearly-native code. But if you really want to get into C later on, be careful with Delphi or the like. The structure and syntax are usually vastly different from language-to-language, and could become confusing later on. I mostly taught myself C by starting with JavaScript. The languages are similar syntax-wise, so I had no problems switching over to C when I was ready for it. But, for example, switching to C from VB is not the best strategy. I assume going from Delphi to C will be equally frustrating. Having to unlearn the "Variable := 1;" stuff in favor of "Variable = 1;" or even worse, going from "if Variable = True" to "if (Variable == TRUE)" ... Personally I believe that the whole "C is difficult" thing is just a myth. It may give you some less-restricted access directly to the hardware, but power doesn't necessarily come from great difficulty. So uhh, if you've got the will, C is the way. ;D |
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MathOnNapkins Math n' Hacks Level: 67  Posts: 340/2189 EXP: 2495887 For next: 96985 Since: 03-18-04 From: Base Tourian Since last post: 1 hour Last activity: 32 min. |
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| I've played with both Visual Basic 6 and Delphi 6 and in general I prefer Delphi. The notion that different conventions are somehow a bad thing is something I don't agree with. In fact I think it would make more sense to merge the two conventions. := being the assignment operator, and == the equals comparison operator. For sure VB is easier to learn but it requires those damned runtimes. Delphi doesn't require any and it's about as easy as VB for most things. The only barrier might be learning Pascal but it's frankly not that hard. |
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Emptyeye Real American Level: 67 Posts: 216/2273 EXP: 2488421 For next: 104451 Since: 05-24-04 From: I DUNNOOOOOOOO!! Since last post: 9 hours Last activity: 4 hours |
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| truthfully, though, syntax is generally the biggest difference between languages. Most of them are perfectly capable of doing whatever you'll need (Although VB may be easiest for making Windows-only programs). | |||
Sokarhacd Ball and Chain Trooper Resistance is Futile You Will Be Assimilated Hab SoSlI' Quch Level: 61  Posts: 290/1757 EXP: 1799888 For next: 76708 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 6 days Last activity: 4 hours |
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| what....am I the only one who like VB?, I thinks its pretty good, so far any of the applications ive made or compiled in VB6 havent really been slow....so I like it....I tried Delphi A long time ago, but I didnt really catch on to it....but I also like C/C++ thats why im learning it also... | |||
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Parasyte Bullet Bill Level: 35 Posts: 68/514 EXP: 267348 For next: 12588 Since: 05-25-04 Since last post: 104 days Last activity: 32 days |
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| MathOnNapkins, The '=' assignment is perfectly fine, and even mostly preferred. In algebra, they teach that '=' is often used for assignment. For example: "a = 1" or long-hand, "Let 'a' equal 1" ... If it's good enough for a mathematician, it should be good enough for everyone. |
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Acmlm Torosu heh Level: 51  Posts: 752/1173 EXP: 981994 For next: 31944 Since: 03-15-04 From: Somewhere that isn't outside of Sherbrooke, Québec, Canada Since last post: 39 days Last activity: 3 hours |
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I had to work in Delphi 6 last summer and winter, it's really not bad Nearly as efficient as C++ (I did a Mandelbrot fractal program that does 40-50 million iterations per second on my Pentium IV 2.4GHz, optimized with some bit of ASM), not as simple as Visual Basic but still easy to learn ... it does work differently from C, though, but I've worked with all 3 languages (Visual Basic first) and that wasn't much of a problem for me  |
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Chickenlump Level: 41  Posts: 256/722 EXP: 474192 For next: 5953 Since: 03-15-04 From: Columbia City Indiana Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 4 min. |
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| VB isn't all that terrible, most of the smack talk about it is from people who are angry from working with it, and frustrated. It can't do as much as the other languages, the speed is a tad slower, and requires run time files. But I do like it. It's not bad as long as you don't attempt to do too much with it...know it's limits. I've taken a look at C# from Visual Studio 2003 and it's a cross between C++ and VB, and Java (don't know about Java though, it's just what I've heard). Very nice stuff. If you are going to program for a living, or plan on super huge projects, perhaps VB6 isn't the way to go, but for quick and dirty apps, helpfull tools, or even just to experiment with, it's not all THAT bad. |
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MathOnNapkins Math n' Hacks Level: 67 Posts: 343/2189 EXP: 2495887 For next: 96985 Since: 03-18-04 From: Base Tourian Since last post: 1 hour Last activity: 32 min. |
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Originally posted by Parasyte Your post would be agreeable if it were not for the fact that mathematicians never can agree on notation. Try reading 3 books on the same subject (usually advanced ones) and you'll find lots to complain about. That said, I think that using two character operators is more specific and if it were set that way for all languages there would be little to no ambiguity for those learning a language. |
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neotransotaku Baby Mario 戻れたら、 誰も気が付く Level: 87 Posts: 724/4016 EXP: 6220548 For next: 172226 Since: 03-15-04 From: Outside of Time/Space Since last post: 11 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
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Originally posted by Chickenlump my gripe is people can produce "fake" software with it. one example is one can make an MP3 player by building your own UI and relying on winamp to do the real work MathOnNapkins, two character operators? sure there is no ambiguity but then the language wouldn't be straightforward and inituitive. I believe languages that aren't inituitive at the basic level is worse than ambiguity |
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HyperLamer <||bass> and this was the soloution i thought of that was guarinteed to piss off the greatest amount of people Sesshomaru Tamaranian Level: 118 Posts: 954/8210 EXP: 18171887 For next: 211027 Since: 03-15-04 From: Canada, w00t! LOL FAD Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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Neo: You can't do that in C?  Really it depends on what you want to do. Both VB and C have their ups and downs... What's good about VB: -Easy to learn, debug, and use. -Based on BASIC, which is commonly used in smaller systems (TI-83s, for example). -Very easy to read someone else's code, to see WTF it does. -CASE-INSENSITIVE! If you declare a variable named SomeVar and then type SOMEVAR later, not only will it work, the GUI will correct it. (This comes in very handy for checking spelling. Declare all variables with at least one capital, and when using them, type in lowercase. If you spell it right, it automatically gets changed to match the capitalization of the declaration.) -The IDE will warn you about bugs as they occurr in execution, so you know exactly what's wrong. -It's generally smart, IE it knows the difference between 'var = 4' and 'if var = 4'. On the other hand: -No way to change the signs of variables. All bytes are unsigned, all Integers and Longs are signed. -Because it uses runtimes, it's a bit slower, uses more RAM, only works on Windoze, and can be broken by corruption of another file. You also need to install the runtimes on older systems. -It's COM-based, which makes multithreading an INCREDIBLE pain!  -You can't make console apps, only Win32 which tend to be bigger. (12K is about the smallest without comrpession.) -When you run a program from the IDE, it runs as another thread. If you screw up something with the API, it generally kills every thread, so the IDE goes down with it. -Don't like/can't afford M$'s IDE? Tough. (Kazaa can help with this, but M$ doesn't look too kindly on it. )Good stuff about C: -It's fast, small, and portable. -It gives you nearly complete control over things. -You can make console apps, for things that really don't need a GUI. -You know it'll run on any system (so long as it has the right OS) without having to install something else first. -You can get free compilers, and there's a wide variety of them. -It's more industry standard, mainly because it can be used on non-M$ OSes, even other CPUs and non-PC systems. Bad stuff about C: -It's a LOT harder to learn, especially Win32! (Creating a window = ARGH! )-GUIs need to be generated from code, AFAIK. -Often you need to either use a crappy compiler or an expensive one. Even if they have an IDE, your program is generally run separately, so debugging is a major pain. -Working with strings and arrays can be a nightmare. -There's generally a lot less debugging tools available. -You need to do everything yourself, it's not just a matter of declaring something. -The code can be very hard to read at times, especially when done by messy programmers. While I'm at it, the goods of ASM: -You have complete control over everything, and can do it all how you want. -It's the lowest level (besides raw hex) there is, so you can really optimize your code. If you're really good, you can do such crazy things as using instructions as data, or in some rare cases, even jumping partway into a multi-byte instruction, giving you a whole new series of instructions. (Example: On GB/Z80, the hex for 'ld hl,$23C3; ld bc,$0021' is '21 C3 23 01 21 00'. If you jump straight to the C3, you get 'jp $0123; ld bc,0' (but the second instruction doesn't get executed, because the first is a direct jump).) -Generally, the syntax is very straightforward. -Once you learn the basic instructions, it's very easy to use. -All you really need to write it are a hex editor and instruction sheet (or you can even just memorize the instruction set). I've done it like this on a Gameboy before (I used a Codebreaker's memory editor to write the code, and hooked into the game with a code to run it), somewhat entertaining.  The bad parts: -Every CPU uses a different instruction set, so porting becomes nearly impossible. (The x86 CPU used in most PCs has a particularly nightmarish instruction set, which doesn't help.) -Debugging can be a major pain in the anus, especially when you've used such crazy optimizations as mentioned above. -It can be hard to learn, since you need to know all the various instructions which aren't always easy to remember. (If you don't already know, can you figure out what 'jr' or 'bgezall' mean? Respectively, 'Jump Relative' (Z80) and 'Branch on Greater than or Equal to Zero And Link Likely' (R4300).  Even the name is like this, it stands for 'ASseMbly.')...As for Delphi, sorry, it just sucks. It's the same basic thing as VB, but the syntax is just ugly. |
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neotransotaku Baby Mario 戻れたら、 誰も気が付く Level: 87 Posts: 729/4016 EXP: 6220548 For next: 172226 Since: 03-15-04 From: Outside of Time/Space Since last post: 11 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
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Originally posted by HyperHacker As far as I know, you can't. Or well, it is a pain in the arse to do. I know in VB importing a few OCX files will do the trick. But I haven't used VB that much and my friend did show me how to do it once. the GUI will correct it. You mean the IDE will and that is only true for VB6 and before. WIth .NET, you could write your VB code in notepad and compile it from the command line Don't like/can't afford M$'s IDE? Tough. (Kazaa can help with this, but M$ doesn't look too kindly on it. ) well...doesn't stop you from making VB programs since there is now a command line VB compiler...but you would be compiling VB.NET programs... it is a lot harder to learn, especially Win32 Win32 is just an API. Meaning if Win32 didn't exist, C would still be C. GUIs need to be generated from code, AFAIK. And VB doesn't do that? VB still creates code, you just don't see that particular code. Microsoft Visual C++ is the same way--You do have a tool that will generate the code for you. or in some rare cases, even jumping partway into a multi-byte instruction That is true if the instruction set does not enforce instruction alignment (requirement that an instruction must begin at a memory address that is a multiple of a certain number, typically 4), then you can have all the fun in the world. You need to do everything yourself, it's not just a matter of declaring something. Please explain  It's the lowest level (besides raw hex) there is raw hex and ASM are the same thing, just like '2' and the chinese character for 2 mean the same thing |
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FreeDOS Lava Lotus Wannabe-Mod :< Level: 59 Posts: 511/1657 EXP: 1648646 For next: 24482 Since: 03-15-04 From: Seattle Since last post: 6 hours Last activity: 4 hours |
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| I'll make it easy on myself: There's a lot of debating go here and back. So who thinks I should install Delphi, Visual Basic, both, or stick with Cygwin and get a C tutorial/book? |
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MathOnNapkins Math n' Hacks Level: 67 Posts: 348/2189 EXP: 2495887 For next: 96985 Since: 03-18-04 From: Base Tourian Since last post: 1 hour Last activity: 32 min. |
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| Well in my honest opinion, a language I've come around to recently is Python. pretty sure GUI development tools are available for it and the syntax and features it has are quite fun. Whether you'd use it or not would depend upon what you wanted to do with it. On the bright side it's all free! And the Win IDE for it isn't too bad. | |||
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Chickenlump Level: 41 Posts: 257/722 EXP: 474192 For next: 5953 Since: 03-15-04 From: Columbia City Indiana Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 4 min. |
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Originally posted by FreeDOS Install both (harddrive willing of course ), although I came to that conclusion only because I still don't know what you want to accomplish with them, making it easier to reccomend one over the other. If you have both installed, try a few tutorials out for both, that do the same thing. Like a "hello world" application for both languages, and after that, more complex applications in both, and compare your experiences with them. Your bound to like one over the other for one reason or another. |
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Kyoufu Kawa I'm not bad. I'm just drawn that way. Level: 70  Posts: 255/2481 EXP: 3008456 For next: 7355 Since: 03-19-04 From: Catgirl Central Since last post: 14 hours Last activity: 13 hours |
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| I -always- write my programs in Visual Basic 6. Some less-serious things in QB71, but most in VB6. The only time I'll seriously program things in Delphi won't even count cuz that'll be Think Pascal (thanks Milly ) |
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Kitten Yiffer Purple wand Furry moderator Vivent l'exp����¯�¿�½������©rience de signalisation d'amusement, ou bien ! Level: 135 Posts: 2302/11162 EXP: 28824106 For next: 510899 Since: 03-15-04 From: Sweden Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 4 min. |
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| I have programmed Delphi, and from my experince. It's fast and quite powerful, yet it's less popular than Visual basic. I would say that other programming languages like C++ is better, but personally I like Delphi more than Visual Basic. |
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| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - Programming - Delphi 5 or Visual Basic 6? |
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