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| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - Programming - Can software truly be copyrighed? |
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Jaguarstrike Level: 8 Posts: 26/32 EXP: 1469 For next: 718 Since: 08-28-05 From: Brooklyn, NYC Since last post: 24 days Last activity: 24 days |
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| Can you copyright a number? The answer should most definatley be no, i mean, its a number, and all numbers have been around for eternity, right? If you think about it, an computer file is a long string or 1's and 0's, correct? A long string of ones and zeros is nothing but a binary, or base two number with a multitude of digits, and this number can be converted into a decimal, or base ten number. How can you copyright a number? Dont ask me, ask the ones who allow it. |
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DarkSlaya POOOOOOOOOOOORN! Level: 88 Posts: 4123/4249 EXP: 6409254 For next: 241410 Since: 05-16-04 From: Montreal, Quebec, Canada Since last post: 8 hours Last activity: 5 hours |
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| You're not copyrighting the number, you're copyrighting the combination of number. That's totally different, like saying that you can't copyright something made of wood because you can't copyright wood. | |||
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Jaguarstrike Level: 8 Posts: 27/32 EXP: 1469 For next: 718 Since: 08-28-05 From: Brooklyn, NYC Since last post: 24 days Last activity: 24 days |
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Originally posted by DarkSlaya No, its a single number. There are no breaks in binary code. Infact, your harddrive is storing only a single (insert byte amount in your harddrive here) digit number. (edited by Jaguarstrike on 09-17-05 04:00 PM) (edited by Jaguarstrike on 09-17-05 04:05 PM) |
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Mercury Shyguy Level: 16  Posts: 61/88 EXP: 18132 For next: 2124 Since: 07-08-04 From: Hihihi. Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 1 day |
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| I think he meant the combination of the individual digits of the number. | |||
Gavin Fuzzy Rhinoceruses don't play games. They fucking charge your ass. Level: 43  Posts: 730/799 EXP: 551711 For next: 13335 Since: 03-15-04 From: IL, USA Since last post: 13 hours Last activity: 13 hours |
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Originally posted by JaguarstrikeOriginally posted by DarkSlaya Yes, but obviously that number is representative of smaller pieces of information and as such are broken down further than just a single large number. They are read and executed as small, multi byte commands. |
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Sokarhacd Ball and Chain Trooper Resistance is Futile You Will Be Assimilated Hab SoSlI' Quch Level: 61  Posts: 1603/1757 EXP: 1799888 For next: 76708 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 6 days Last activity: 4 hours |
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| personally I dont think software should/could be copyrighted..just think of all the FTP Clients, Browsers, and what not, there are only a few different ways to code something like that, and eventually if software gets copyrighted, its gonna be chaos. | |||
Dish Spiny Level: 38 Posts: 578/596 EXP: 355646 For next: 14801 Since: 03-15-04 From: Disch Since last post: 18 days Last activity: 18 days |
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Originally posted by Jaguarstrike Your oversimplification makes absolutly no sense. Anyone with a brain can clearly see that computer software does far more than keep track of an outrageously large number. If you truely can't grasp that... then I don't know what to say.
If you oversimplify and ignore the obvious... then yes. Just like digital movies, audio, etc. All those DVDs you own.. all those CDs... hell... even analog vinyl recordings only contain bumps on a disc -- HOW CAN ANYONE COPYRIGHT BUMPS OMG If you want to break things down in this stupid fashion far enough... then nothing can be copyrighted because all anything is is a collection of protons/electrons/neutrons -- and those have always existed as well. But of course, for you to concede that to be a valid argument, you'd have to be a numbskull. And for the record: yes.... computer software not only can be copyrighted... but it most definatly should be... and 99.999999999999% of the time it is (even the freeware stuff you all download legally like emulators and stuff). It may seem like it's a bad thing.. .but once you stand in the shoes of a software developer (even a freeware one), you see how great a thing it is. And most modern harddrives are not stored sequentially... so your theory of it containing a large digit number is false. Harddrives are broken into sectors and other units to make space management simpler and you keep your HD at a reasonable physical size (otherwise it probably wouldn't fit inside your computer). EDIT Having re-read some of this thread... it appears some of you may be a little unsure on what a copyright is anyway. First and foremost.... copyrights have absolutly nothing to do with money!!!!! This is a common misconception... since people think "copyright", they immediately think "copyright infringment" -> "piracy" -> "theft" -> "money". But the copyright has absolutly nothing to do with the value of a dollar. This can be seen by the growing number of free programs available... almost all of which are copyrighted (possibly even all). Cut down to very simple terms.. all a copyright does is says "hey.. I made this, so it's mine... but you can use it if you agree to my rules". In the case of commercial liscences.. their rules include "don't redistribute this", "you have to pay me a fee", and other typical things. For freeware developers, the 'rules' are typically more lax.. like "don't try to say you made this program", "I'm not to blame if you use it wrong and it blows up in your face", etc. Another common rule with copyrighted source distribution is "you can change this source and redistribute all you like, as long as you provide the source with your product" --- a rule which is designed to keep open source programs open source. This way no jackass can take the program, make a special build of it and hide the source from other developers -- at least not legally. Breaking the rules does not remove the copyright.. it just makes you guilty of copyright infringement. So even if a copyright is borderline impossible to enforce (which seems to be the case for old ROMs, and music files, etc) -- the copyright is still there... even if it's not doing much. Copyrights are fantastic.... in that they're one of the few laws out there that actually look out for the little guy. Freeware development would be much more difficult without copyrights... and the guys selling software wouldn't really be much worse off. So to be upset at software copyrights is misdirecting your energy. (edited by Disch on 09-17-05 06:36 PM) (edited by Disch on 09-17-05 08:07 PM) |
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Zer0wned Cheep-cheep Level: 17  Posts: 136/181 EXP: 21472 For next: 3271 Since: 08-16-05 From: Hermosa Beach, CA Since last post: 30 days Last activity: 30 days |
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| And books shouldn't be copyrighted because they're a long string of ascii characters... I agree that software should maintain the right to be copyrighted, just as much as a specific design of car should have its ability to be copyrighted, but copyrighting a type of software (like say if adobe gained the rights to image creation and editing) seems kinda.... immoral, and is just a bad idea on the consumer end. People on a salary put many hours into the software on the premise that they'll get paid for it. The employers of the employees put up the money to pay the employees, have the software packaged, etc. on the idea that people would buy the product and give them a profit, just like with any other product. If their rights aren't protected, they'll just stop making it, because there's no money in it. Personally, I wouldn't take the time to invest in software development if i knew the result would be some hacker convincing themself "L0L u cant steel software its not reel." and my profit margin coming out negative. I mean really though, if you can't copyright software, no one would put a lot of money into it to make it something worth buying, and we'd have to use nothing but open source, which isn't always that great, and leaves you vulnerable to all kinds of exploits the home developers may have in store for you. Oh man, and video games, say goodbye to those if the contained "number" can't be copyrighted. (edited by Zer0wned on 09-17-05 07:34 PM) (edited by Zer0wned on 09-17-05 11:05 PM) |
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MathOnNapkins Math n' Hacks Level: 67  Posts: 2162/2189 EXP: 2495887 For next: 96985 Since: 03-18-04 From: Base Tourian Since last post: 1 hour Last activity: 32 min. |
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| Or you could buy programs that are closed source, and become vulnerable to all the holes the developers were too lazy to fix... there's a tradeoff. If an opensource community is active, they can usually spot exploits and patch them before too long. | |||
rg_ Goomba Level: 8  Posts: 14/26 EXP: 1964 For next: 223 Since: 03-27-05 Since last post: 21 hours Last activity: 12 hours |
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| How can videos and music be copyrighted? It's just a single number on my hard drive. What about books I have in ebook format? Just a single number. Using your "argument" (I'm using the word argument liberally here) nothing that can be represented in digital form should be copyrightable. |
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HyperLamer <||bass> and this was the soloution i thought of that was guarinteed to piss off the greatest amount of people Sesshomaru Tamaranian Level: 118 Posts: 7103/8210 EXP: 18171887 For next: 211027 Since: 03-15-04 From: Canada, w00t! LOL FAD Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| This argument is flawed. If you treat all the bits in a file as one single number, then just by changing one bit, you've created an entirely different number and thus the copyright does not apply, even if the output is exactly the same. It is in fact the output that's copyrighted. If you take an MP3 and convert it to an OGG, the file is completely different but the output is still the same, and thus the copyright still applies. | |||
knuck Hinox Banned until 19-58-5815: trolling, flaming, spamming, being a general fucktard... Level: 62 Posts: 1573/1818 EXP: 1894574 For next: 90112 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 14 hours Last activity: 9 hours |
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Originally posted by MathOnNapkinsYeah because any closed source software is full of bugs and ohexploitable. srsly gb2/linux |
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Thayer Fuzz Ball Level: 38  Posts: 769/988 EXP: 349428 For next: 21019 Since: 06-28-05 Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 1 day |
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Acmlmboard has no bugs or exploits! None whatsoever! Opensource is perfect  |
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HyperLamer <||bass> and this was the soloution i thought of that was guarinteed to piss off the greatest amount of people Sesshomaru Tamaranian Level: 118 Posts: 7161/8210 EXP: 18171887 For next: 211027 Since: 03-15-04 From: Canada, w00t! LOL FAD Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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Open source only works if it's popular. The idea is that there will be more people finding the exploits and fixing/reporting them than people finding them and abusing them. Clearly not the case here, which has a lot to do with the small userbase. Most people who find exploits aren't even using it themselves. Also, it tends to take the admins quite a while to fix an exploit around here sometimes.  Though most exploit abuse has been done by Xk and that one guy who was trying to frame Tamarin.  |
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Thayer Fuzz Ball Level: 38 Posts: 777/988 EXP: 349428 For next: 21019 Since: 06-28-05 Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 1 day |
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Conclusion: Open source isn't always better. |
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Mega-Dog Level: 20  Posts: 96/139 EXP: 40051 For next: 2388 Since: 03-15-04 From: Minnesota Since last post: 8 days Last activity: 4 days |
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| OK! You cannot Copyright or put a Trademark on a number. I found this out when the 586's came out. That is why they switched to Pentium so that way it can be TMed. You can obtain a Copyright on programs and such. You gota get the fourms from the Copyright office and pay for them. Back when I got DogSoft's it cost me $20 and now my programs can be copyrighted for my life + 50 years if I remember right. |
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dan Snap Dragon Level: 43  Posts: 742/782 EXP: 534516 For next: 30530 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 20 hours Last activity: 14 hours |
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Originally posted by Thayer AcmlmBoard isn't truly open source. |
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Thayer Fuzz Ball Level: 38 Posts: 827/988 EXP: 349428 For next: 21019 Since: 06-28-05 Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 1 day |
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| Please explain. The source code for Acmlmboard is available for download for anyone, note the FAQ. And there is a body of users who are modifying it outside of the original staff. | |||
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Mega-Dog Level: 20 Posts: 98/139 EXP: 40051 For next: 2388 Since: 03-15-04 From: Minnesota Since last post: 8 days Last activity: 4 days |
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Originally posted by Thayer It is open Source, but it is full of bugs. Also most versions are not Open Source... |
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windwaker Ball and Chain Trooper WHY ALL THE MAYONNAISE HATE Level: 61  Posts: 1780/1797 EXP: 1860597 For next: 15999 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 4 days Last activity: 6 days |
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Originally posted by danOriginally posted by Thayer Indeed. If it was, there would be like, very few exploits, unless the board owners wouldn't use the inevitable patches. You see, open source -IS- better. No matter what, bugs are going to come out. Sure, it's harder to reverse engineer something, but patches for open source software comes out before they're exploited. It's common for things such as wordpress that the people who find the exploits create patches themselves, and submit them to wordpress. |
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