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| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - World Affairs / Debate - What is the American Dream |
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SamuraiX Paratroopa Level: 19 Posts: 24/140 EXP: 32602 For next: 3175 Since: 10-11-04 From: ^___^ Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| Also, post your real age, occupation, and nationality. I am writing a paper on the relative thoughts of the "American Dream" among different peoples. (edited by SamuraiX on 09-16-05 09:01 PM) |
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knuck Hinox Banned until 19-58-5815: trolling, flaming, spamming, being a general fucktard... Level: 62 Posts: 1508/1818 EXP: 1894574 For next: 90112 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 14 hours Last activity: 9 hours |
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| South America too or just US? | |||
Danielle Local Moderator  Level: 76  Posts: 2463/3359 EXP: 3958078 For next: 47982 Since: 09-15-04 From: RATE Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 3 hours |
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| I'm 16, American, a student obviously. To the best of my knowledge, the American Dream is to be successful, have a family, be wealthy, live in a nice area.. just generally give yourself a good name. I don't necessarily agree with it.. but it's what's required to be successful. And that's pretty much the basis of society. |
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Arwon Zora Level: 35  Posts: 473/506 EXP: 278115 For next: 1821 Since: 03-15-04 From: Terra Australis Incognita Since last post: 5 hours Last activity: 10 min. |
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| 21, Australian male. Kill your boss and take his job. (edited by Arwon on 09-16-05 10:14 PM) |
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Tamarin Calanis We exist. Earth exists. The universe exists. Do we really need to know why? Level: 59 Posts: 1607/1802 EXP: 1672751 For next: 377 Since: 07-12-04 From: The gas station on the corner... Since last post: 5 hours Last activity: 5 hours |
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| Arwon, you'd be a great Sith. Until someone killed you and took your job. 17, American male, Facilities (cleaning/restocking) person at a Sheetz gas station/convenience store. Based on what I've heard other people say, Danielle pretty much got it right. However, if you were interested, my personal dream is to have a happy marriage, one or two kids (no more, I want a HAPPY marriage, heh), and that's it; the money doesn't bother me much, as long as I wasn't in debt up to my eyeballs... I just want a happy family, no more. |
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Wurl 4.0 Level: 18  Posts: 14/244 EXP: 27558 For next: 2339 Since: 09-11-05 From: Illinois: Land of Eternal Desert Since last post: 11 hours Last activity: 10 hours |
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| I'm a 16 year old student from the U.S. The main goal in the American Dream is to have money, at least two cars and to make more money to increase your social standing. Unless you're lucky, or white, or both it's very hard. It's not so bad to move from the middle class to upper middle or upper class, but it's near impossible for the rural or inner city poor. There simply aren't well paying jobs for those people and as a social minority, they're pretty much fucked. It doesn't help that America refuses to create a welfare state to safeguard people from these situations. Even worse, America has lost many jobs in the name of cheaper consumer goods and more profit. I don't hate America, I criticize it so maybe we can fix our problems. | |||
Zer0wned Cheep-cheep Level: 17  Posts: 128/181 EXP: 21472 For next: 3271 Since: 08-16-05 From: Hermosa Beach, CA Since last post: 30 days Last activity: 30 days |
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| 18, American (US..), Military (starting oct. 4) An seemingly typical American's "American Dream" is to be better than most of their peers or "make it to the top". A more reasonable American's dream is to have the "essentials" required for a faily normal life, house, 1 vehicle per adult, 2.8 kids, no debts, and a possible nest egg to look forward to. Originally posted by Wurl 4.0 From posts I've read so far, I kinda like you. Seriously though, if you were serious, you can bite me. The only difference being white would make nowadays is having family connections, other than that, affirmitive action does its job of leveling the playing field, if not tipping it the other way. For the inner city poor, there's vocational schools and community college. I came from a shitty city, being white meant nothing in your favor, being poor only meant you probably weren't going to a university, at least without a loan or scholarship. Any capable person from any previous fiscal standing willing to act appropriately, save up, and spend wisely (e.i. education for employable/promotable skills) can make it to middle class. The only reason I've ever seen minorities or lower class getting turned down in a seemingly biased manner was actually because of how they carried themselves and the impression that they made. And of course it's hard to move up from lower class to upper/upper-middle... it's kinda supposed to be that way, doesn't usually happen in one generation. |
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Slay Level: 25 Posts: 308/339 EXP: 85592 For next: 4028 Since: 04-28-05 From: Threshold Between Heaven and Hell Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 1 day |
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| Age Secret Occupation None Nationality Earth "The American Dream" is merely a buzzword used to rally impressionable young men to war. It's a method that's been used since ancient times; convince the troops that they are directly fighting for their families and homeland, even when they're invading foreign territory or joining a pre-existing war that they were not initially a part of. The Tamarin Calanis says... Reminds me of that one episode of Futurama. |
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Wurl 4.0 Level: 18 Posts: 17/244 EXP: 27558 For next: 2339 Since: 09-11-05 From: Illinois: Land of Eternal Desert Since last post: 11 hours Last activity: 10 hours |
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| Replying to Zer0wned---- I somewhat disagree, being white is definitly a plus. Being a minority, whether numerical or socialy, is relevant in the U.S. minorities do have to take crap that whites don't. The American Dream is not impossible, but it is very difficult. Compared to other industrialized nations, the U.S. has a considerable amount of economic and racial stratification and often these two coincide. The U.S., namely in the name of cheap products, have exported jobs to the suburbs or other nations. Inner city and rural people feel this lack of jobs very harshly because it is simply hard for them to find work. It doesn't help that we have a unlivable minimum wage. Which is why many can't even afford community college or vocational school. Even if they could, they are not taught the finacial skills to allocate funds for such uses. Many of these problems can be related to our capitalist society that demands cheap goods, cheap labour and private intrests. In many cases, our capitalist system leads to the poor getting poorer and the rich getting richer. I think the U.S. needs to adress these problems ASAP. Also, I'd like to note that I don't like the concept of affirmative action, but I do see as necesary to attempt leveling the field. In case you hadn't noticed, I am a socialist who would like to see the U.S. fix it's numerous faults through democratic action. |
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Thayer Fuzz Ball Level: 38  Posts: 609/988 EXP: 349428 For next: 21019 Since: 06-28-05 Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 1 day |
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| Affirmative action doesn't level the playing field as much as it functions as reverse discrimination. Individuals should get a job based on their own individual qualifications and personalities, not the color of their skin regardless if it's white or black. A white person should not get a job solely because he's white and applied; and a black person should not get a job simply because he's black and applied. It should work both ways. | |||
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Wurl 4.0 Level: 18 Posts: 19/244 EXP: 27558 For next: 2339 Since: 09-11-05 From: Illinois: Land of Eternal Desert Since last post: 11 hours Last activity: 10 hours |
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| I strongly agree with that philosophy, but with the exception of certain sports, prisons and who gets killed, minorities are strongly under represented in most job and education fields. I could see how this could be taken as racist, but numerous studies have proved these facts true. (edited by Wurl 4.0 on 09-17-05 11:08 PM) |
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Arwon Zora Level: 35 Posts: 479/506 EXP: 278115 For next: 1821 Since: 03-15-04 From: Terra Australis Incognita Since last post: 5 hours Last activity: 10 min. |
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| For every official act of "reverse discrimination" against whites, how many unofficial moments of regular discrimination are there? There's a whole entrenched, subtley race-biased system and just pretending everyone's equal won't really make it go away. Quotas and shit arent the way to go, but then, I'm skeptical that they even exist as government policy. I'm honestly not sure, but given the entrenched and dysfunctional nature of race relations in the US I would't be surprised if people, including employers, imagine these quota policies exist much more than they do. At any rate, it really is amazing the extent to which prejudice and discrimination can be entrenched in a society or governmental strucutre without ever actually referring to race in any direct way. Just as a couple of random examples. I'd firstly cite 150 years of local government politics, zoning laws and "neighbourhood associations" in Los Angeles - one of the most segregated and racially fractuous cities in the country, if not the world, but never do you see anything officially perpetuating the inequality... it's just entrenched, and perpetuated by people mainly looking out for things like property prices and neighbourhood "standards". Or as another example, voting in southern states. Georgia for example requires an official photo ID - 35 bucks a pop, which isn't a lot but still constitutes a de facto poll tax that disproportionately serves to disenfranchise the poor who don't drive, which means disproportionately disenfranchising the black. Throw in the fact that many counties don't apparently have any facilities to make properly sanctioned official IDs (including Atlanta itself, I'm told) and you can see what I'm getting at. Lifelong disenfranchisement of felons, is another one. Then there was Ohio in 2004. Funds for elections are distrubted on a state level, it's very odd that the lack of machines and long lines seemed to be solely a phenomenon in poor black neighborhoods... Or if we wanna talk about Australia, the written, formal, proscriptive nature of our education system places zero value on the Aboriginal cultural disposition towards oral histories and so forth, and so there's an institutionalised discrimination there that leads to less than stellar results and has a whole slew of flow-on effects. Throw in the fact that anyone who's now in the parents generation had some truly nightmarish experiences with formal official eduation and you see there's a whole culture of not engaging with the education system which is very tough to crack. Moreover, different cultural attitudes towards information and questions (It's generally far more effective to ask leading questions - "Your father was from around here?" rather than "Where is your father from?") leads to the indigenous thinking white folks are pushy and intrusive and rude, and whites thinking the indigenous are indolent, shiftless and evasive. You can imagine the consequences these cultural differences have in courtrooms for example. Yet, officially, "everyone's equal!" even though these multitudes of differentiation exist. These is just a couple of snapshots of the variety of ways in which group X can be marginalised and discriminated against without anyone actually consciously doing so. Yeah, people get overlooked for jobs and stuff because of official affirmative action policies... yeah, people get screwed by these official policies designed to counteract these entrenched socio-cultural or demographic issues. I personally thing the only workable affirmative action programs are education-based policies and employment subsidisation for the young and disadvantaged, anything else seems to be "after the horse has bolted". BUT. Really, for every official act of "reverse discrimination" how many unofficial acts of "regular discrimination" are there? And it's not enough just to say "everyone's equal" when you have a huge variety of social, demographic and culture factors working against people, so utterly entrenched. They won't go away on their own. (edited by Arwon on 09-17-05 11:30 PM) |
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Thayer Fuzz Ball Level: 38 Posts: 614/988 EXP: 349428 For next: 21019 Since: 06-28-05 Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 1 day |
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| I find it interesting that my grandfather who is part-Jewish is so obsessed with asking people where they are from. I realize he means little harm by asking, but I worry often when we're in public that he is misunderstood by the person he asks. To explain a little bit better, where he lives, it is predominantly whites and blacks, but when he comes to visit me, this area has a large mishmash of ethnic groups from nearly everywhere. =p (edited by Thayer on 09-17-05 11:35 PM) |
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Kefka Indefinitely Unbanned Level: 81 Posts: 3369/3392 EXP: 4826208 For next: 166641 Since: 03-15-04 From: Pomona, CALIFORNIA BABY! Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 4 hours |
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| 17, male student, USA If you can manage to become the CEO of a ridiculously huge corporation like Halliburton or Goldman Sachs, then you have a LOT of economic and political power. Therefore, that is what every capitalist in America should dream of becoming.  (edited by Kefka on 09-19-05 12:08 AM) |
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Wurl 4.0 Level: 18 Posts: 38/244 EXP: 27558 For next: 2339 Since: 09-11-05 From: Illinois: Land of Eternal Desert Since last post: 11 hours Last activity: 10 hours |
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| True, Halliburton controls like half the world. |
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