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| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - World Affairs / Debate - Should Quebec Gain Its Independence? |
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Should quebec get his independance?| Yes |
25.0%, 2 votes | No |
75.0%, 6 votes | Multi-voting is disabled.
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Bio Buster Beetle Level: 27  Posts: 87/458 EXP: 107144 For next: 9015 Since: 07-06-05 From: a laboratory somewhere... Waiting to be completed Since last post: 8 hours Last activity: 5 hours |
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| Quebec Independance Is the canada biggest debate and with Jean charest and Paul Martin doing trouble this going to happen, good new or bad new? Note:If you don't know why Quebec want their independance don't just vote no ask me insted (edited by Bio on 08-17-05 12:09 AM) |
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neotransotaku Baby Mario 戻れたら、 誰も気が付く Level: 87 Posts: 3822/4016 EXP: 6220548 For next: 172226 Since: 03-15-04 From: Outside of Time/Space Since last post: 11 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
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| this belongs better in world debate forum... but anyways--if both canada and quebec would truly benefit from it, i don't see why not. However, if it is for a selfish reason, then well...i don't know... is there anything in the canadian "constitution" that prevents secessioning? i wonder what the population consensus is? if secession does happen, then, what happens to ottawa? |
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Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101  Posts: 5040/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
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| I'm going to go ahead and move this to the World Affairs forum. | |||
alte Hexe Star Mario I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night Alive as you and me "But Joe you're ten years dead!" "I never died" said he "I never died!" said he Level: 99  Posts: 5108/5458 EXP: 9854489 For next: 145511 Since: 03-15-04 From: ... Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| The Parti Quebecois and Bloc Quebecois exist to get for Quebec what is best for that province. The problem is that Quebec sovereignty is widely misunderstood and thought to be "treason". Regardless, Canada as a nation needs to address the various problems facing each province via democratic means and see what will work best. Quebec's seperation isn't to form a new nation, it is to gain international recognition as being a wholly different and autonomus culture within the nation. Frankly, after I'm done my education, I'm moving to Quebec. |
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Bio Buster Beetle Level: 27 Posts: 90/458 EXP: 107144 For next: 9015 Since: 07-06-05 From: a laboratory somewhere... Waiting to be completed Since last post: 8 hours Last activity: 5 hours |
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| I'm pretty amazed of your knowledge about that.Are you from canada? | |||
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alte Hexe Star Mario I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night Alive as you and me "But Joe you're ten years dead!" "I never died" said he "I never died!" said he Level: 99 Posts: 5111/5458 EXP: 9854489 For next: 145511 Since: 03-15-04 From: ... Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| Yup. And I'm also highly active in Canadian politics. | |||
geeogree Bloober Level: 34  Posts: 397/448 EXP: 231583 For next: 22068 Since: 03-16-04 From: Calgary, Canada Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 11 hours |
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| I'm not sure why Quebec deserves or needs this recognition.... I think it's just snooty french people at it again.... always thinkin that they're better than the rest | |||
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Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101 Posts: 5044/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
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Originally posted by geeogree It's not nice to stereotype like this geeogree. Practically every society has people guilty of this, so it really doesn't help your arguemnt. Whichever arguement that may be. |
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Bio Buster Beetle Level: 27 Posts: 96/458 EXP: 107144 For next: 9015 Since: 07-06-05 From: a laboratory somewhere... Waiting to be completed Since last post: 8 hours Last activity: 5 hours |
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| Talking about superiority,the rich people of england come first to canada to get money from 'stupid french' and they was protected by the first consitution wich was hightly unfair because the parti of the rich people from england(I don't renember the name) was prime minister with...3 deputy against 120 from the english/french normal people (edited by Bio on 08-17-05 09:48 AM) (edited by Bio on 08-17-05 09:49 AM) |
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Edea Red Goomba Level: 8 Posts: 7/36 EXP: 1824 For next: 363 Since: 08-23-05 Since last post: 11 days Last activity: 11 days |
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| Knowing very little about it, hopefully I don't come across as being entirely ignorant. However, perhaps a fairly large percentage of the people responding to this are from the United States or are intimately tied to that region (if not, I'm -very- impressed with the diversity of the board population here). The American perspective on cessation is violently against, mainly because of the 'traitorous' feeling already alluded to that it elicits, but perhaps also because of this country's history (this ironically being one of the parts most Americans remember, lmao). From a less nationalistic viewpoint, I'm thinking that, while the socio-cultural reform may have benefits (at least for Quebec's people, which does sound kinda selfish), the economic effects I find shaky; I thought that Canada was a major exporter of oil, one of the greatest in the world (America gets most of its oil ond petroleum by-products from Canada, not the Middle East, which I was shocked to learn). Is Quebec the source of this? I doubt it, and that means it would need to find another means of handling itself economically. The St. Lawrence river may very well be one of its only economic outlets (so people in Upper East U.S. might actually want this to happen). I guess I need a bigger detail as to what exactly Quebec has to fall back on once it's seceded. |
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alte Hexe Star Mario I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night Alive as you and me "But Joe you're ten years dead!" "I never died" said he "I never died!" said he Level: 99 Posts: 5174/5458 EXP: 9854489 For next: 145511 Since: 03-15-04 From: ... Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| Well. A lot of the Canadian oil comes from Alberta. And BC. And Ontario. And Nunavut. And NWT. And Newfoundland & Labrador. And Nova Scotia. And Saskatchewan. And Manitoba. And Yukon. But, basically, Canada is an oil rich nation. Quebec has its own standalone economy. Generally, Canadians too are ignorant on this front. The Quebecois do NOT WANT a seperate nation. The Quebecois want recognition of being a very large and very distinct population in Canada. They want Canada to be amended to either recognize the distinct culture in Quebec and parts of Acadia or they want to be internationally recognized. Anyone who knows about Canadian history can say, quite definitively, that Quebec more than any other province has been shafted by the English, Federalism and all other forms of Canadian governance. |
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Keikonium Banned Level: NAN Posts: 2391/-2459 EXP: NAN For next: 0 Since: 04-02-04 Since last post: 63 days Last activity: 9 hours |
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Originally posted by neotransotaku Ottawa is in Ontario. NOT quebec. Ontario would keep Ottawa, or at leas they better if this happens. I personally like Quebec (I'm from Ontario) and don't want them seperating. Hasn't this debate been going on for a while tho, and quebec lost? Is there yet another one  .Either way, I voted no  . |
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Bio Buster Beetle Level: 27 Posts: 216/458 EXP: 107144 For next: 9015 Since: 07-06-05 From: a laboratory somewhere... Waiting to be completed Since last post: 8 hours Last activity: 5 hours |
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| Quebec is a rich nation in hydro-electricity, so the independance won't do trouble to economy since quebec are one of the best place for hydro-electricity they will still be able to survive | |||
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Slay Level: 25 Posts: 272/339 EXP: 85592 For next: 4028 Since: 04-28-05 From: Threshold Between Heaven and Hell Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 1 day |
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The Ziff says... You of all people should know that talk is cheap. You say they want "recognition" of being different and of having unique culture? What does this entail? What do they want money-wise, politics-wise, government-wise, law-wise? "Recognition" is abstract and undefinable, and is only measured by the perceptions of individuals, so "recognition" could hardly be granted, and certainly not through legal measures. At the end of the day, what is it they really want? The way you word it, it sounds like the residents of Quebec (about 1/4 the total population of Canada in 1/6 it's landmass, I believe) are simply frustrated that they're labeled "Canadian" and not "Quebecois" whenever reffered to by foreigners. Like the younger sibling in a family of four who is angry at her over-achieving older sister because she gets all the attention. But this is just what I see based on how you describe it. I'll reserve my judgement for when I gather the necessary facts. |
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rouki Micro-Goomba Level: 7 Posts: 9/12 EXP: 1014 For next: 434 Since: 03-17-04 Since last post: 55 days Last activity: 3 days |
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Quebec is the oldest part of Canada, and as the first founding nation (bar the native peoples!), has the longest history. It is, in its own sphere, an over-achiever, even though its culture doesn't get the international attention it could have, because of the language barrier (a drop of French-speakers in a sea of English-speakers). English Canadian culture has no particular claim to fame either. That's because of the prominence of American culture, of course -- I believe language is also a nuisance to the emancipation of English Canadian culture (it appears to be struggling to find itself), because the influence of the English-speaking U.S. is greater on them; but that's another story. The question of independance is increasingly becoming a matter of economy, rather than a matter of culture: Quebecers are dissatisfied with the way their taxes are handled, particularly in view of the huge surpluses in Ottawa these past few years, whereas the provinces are struggling with economic difficulties (they assume the costs of most services, including healthcare). This is a problem for all provinces; that is why some other provinces, like Alberta, are slowly following in the trail of Quebec, and asking for change or independance. Who knows what will happen. I'm from Quebec and that's my two cents. rouki |
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alte Hexe Star Mario I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night Alive as you and me "But Joe you're ten years dead!" "I never died" said he "I never died!" said he Level: 99 Posts: 5182/5458 EXP: 9854489 For next: 145511 Since: 03-15-04 From: ... Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| But Alberta has no reason to do that. They've always been properly represented and almost always have had the ability to gain equity from the tax returns from the Federal Government. It has always been a "have" province. Whereas its two neighbours, Saskatchewan and Manitoba, are "have-not" provinces and thoroughly screwed over. The NEP was detrimental to Alberta's economy, but Ontario, Quebec and BC had to pay for all the shortfalls of Alberta. Now that Ontario has been receiving 2 billion from the Federal Government on returns rather than the 23.4 billion it actually requires in returns...But try to explain that to someone from outside of Ontario. I've always enjoyed Quebecois culture, and as you mentioned, it was the first European culture (excluding the Basques, Vikings and a supposed Roman settlement in Nova Scotia) to actively seek colonization and inhabitation of North America. Their culture is seperate from that of the Anglophone population, quite different too. Whereas the RoC West of Quebec has a fairly homogenous culture, the Quebecois have always had this weird niche. Their films do well in their own province. They actually care about protecting themselves. It's weird. But for some reason, the Seperatist BQ are still nationalistic French and focusing on the Anglo vs Franco argument. They're not focusing on the requirements of the Quebeckers. The PQ on th other hand does a good job of dealing with French-Canadian social wants. Hell, I have most of those social wants. Those social wants are fascinating though. The Quebecois have some of the lowest church attendance, but most of them will identify with Catholicism with asked. In fact, many will defend the Church (sans the priesthood-pedophilia scandal...No one can defend that). Yet, despite this still fond (semi) closeness to the Church...The Quebecois are still the most socially progressive in Canada. The highest margins of favour for SSM (even many rural areas outstripped urban Ontario and BC when asked). It's really, really weird. Plus, there is that inherent protectionism of their own culture. And really there is only one exception, and that is Montreal which is pretty much divided between Anglo/Franco lines. It's like Toronto to Ontario, Calgary to Alberta or Dildo to Newfoundland. The city everyone else in the province hates I should stop before I end up writing another thesis paper on the topic  Also, I'm going to mention the foundation of Orange Canada furthering Anglo/Franco alienation. |
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Bio Buster Beetle Level: 27 Posts: 242/458 EXP: 107144 For next: 9015 Since: 07-06-05 From: a laboratory somewhere... Waiting to be completed Since last post: 8 hours Last activity: 5 hours |
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| Did you know someone made a book about these orangiste thing, called the 'Livre noir du canada anglais'No english version avaible and I don't think there will be one someday...there also info about Acadien and the Metis and the Japaness who get victim of discrimination (edited by Bio on 08-25-05 10:09 PM) |
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alte Hexe Star Mario I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night Alive as you and me "But Joe you're ten years dead!" "I never died" said he "I never died!" said he Level: 99 Posts: 5196/5458 EXP: 9854489 For next: 145511 Since: 03-15-04 From: ... Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| There are lots of books about the Orange Lodges in English. There are several in my private library. | |||
Thayer Fuzz Ball Level: 38  Posts: 95/988 EXP: 349428 For next: 21019 Since: 06-28-05 Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 1 day |
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| I'm curious about one thing, who is Quebec and why should he get his independence? I'm aware of a country named Quebec, but not the guy, sorry. | |||
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alte Hexe Star Mario I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night Alive as you and me "But Joe you're ten years dead!" "I never died" said he "I never died!" said he Level: 99 Posts: 5207/5458 EXP: 9854489 For next: 145511 Since: 03-15-04 From: ... Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| Hey man...Could you do us the favour of reading the thread before posting? |
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| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - World Affairs / Debate - Should Quebec Gain Its Independence? |
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