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| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - World Affairs / Debate - Life after death ? Death after life ? |
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Proto K Repent! Level: 27 Posts: 277/279 EXP: 113908 For next: 2251 Since: 03-15-04 From: New Brunswick, Canada Since last post: 16 days Last activity: 8 hours |
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| Oh, and you only get into heaven or hell (specifically the lake of fire) during judgement day I think, and am paraphrasing. Ares, you are a bit confused, I'll try to clear up a few things (I'm still new to this, so this might not be all completely correct): Prior to Jesus's sacrifice on the cross, everyone who died went to Hades. There were two parts to Hades, Paradise and Torments. The righteous and with grace of God were sent to Paradise, and the wicked sent to Torments. After Jesus died, he decended into Hades to tell everyone there his victory over Satan. He then took all who were in Paradise to Heaven. This would include Abraham, David, Moses, etc.. the Old Testament Saints and other righteous people in God. The wicked were left in the Torments part of Hades, and remain there to this day. When anyone dies now, if they are saved (through Jesus), then they immediately go to Heaven. If not, they go to the Torments part of Hades (I think). They will stay in Hades until the ressurection of the unrighteous, which will take place at the end of Christ's 1000 year reign. At that time, all the unrighteous will be judged and sent to Hell. another thing I'm hearing is: "If I'm good...heaven" Yep, I agree 100% here.. it doesn't matter how good you are, you can't earn your way into heaven. Nobody is good enough.  |
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SoreThumb Newcomer Level: 2 Posts: 2/2 EXP: 20 For next: 26 Since: 09-12-05 Since last post: 34 days Last activity: 34 days |
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| Interestingly enough, I'm in a class that is dealing with the concept of death, life, and the soul. One of our required readings is the Phaedo by Plato. Apparently Platonic thought is deeply rooted in the modern philosophy about life and death. http://www.constitution.org/pla/phaedo.htm An online copy of Phaedo. While it's long, it's based on Socrates arguing that, due to opposites and other facts, we can use abstract thinking and get thoughts about the soul. Not all of it is agreeable, and not all of it is easy to understand. But, if you want to see the document that discusses deeply held beliefs all of us may or may not have, I suggest you read it. Good luck. :o |
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Jazzerus Newcomer Level: 2  Posts: 1/2 EXP: 18 For next: 28 Since: 09-21-05 From: Storrs, CT, USA Since last post: 29 days Last activity: 29 days |
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| I believe that when we die, we go to a purgatory of sorts, and how good our lives are will determine how well our afterlife is. Kinda like reincarnation but you dont come back to this world. | |||
Ares Blue Octorok Level: 12 Posts: 44/47 EXP: 7857 For next: 64 Since: 03-17-04 From: Uh...Olympus....yes, that will do..... Since last post: 12 days Last activity: 7 days |
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Originally posted by Proto K I'm not confused, I was just recounting the cannical version of Christian cosmology. You've got some extra Catholic Apocrypha stuff goin' on with the paradise and torments stuff.... I just kept it to a Joe Friday sort of explanation. "Just the facts, mam." |
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Proto K Repent! Level: 27 Posts: 279/279 EXP: 113908 For next: 2251 Since: 03-15-04 From: New Brunswick, Canada Since last post: 16 days Last activity: 8 hours |
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| No, I'm not a Catholic and none of what I stated came anywhere from the Apocrypha. http://www.lamblion.com/articles/prophecy/issues/PI-05.php This article should help to clear it up. Many verses in the Bible clearly state a difference between Hades and Hell (ie. The Lake of Fire), which are referenced in that article. I'm no expert myself on it, and am still learning a lot every day. |
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Ares Blue Octorok Level: 12 Posts: 45/47 EXP: 7857 For next: 64 Since: 03-17-04 From: Uh...Olympus....yes, that will do..... Since last post: 12 days Last activity: 7 days |
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| Alright, I checked out this fella's ariticle and although interesting, it is incorrect. Make no mistake, I am the "clearing up" person around here. okay, first off: "Many verses in the Bible clearly state a difference between Hades and Hell" You are correct sir! but this has nothing to do with the topic at hand: From your submitted article: "Hell is not Hades. A careful study of the Scriptures will reveal that Hades in the New Testament is the same place as Sheol in the Old Testament (Psalms 49:15)." Once again, correct. "Hades (or Sheol) was the holding place for the spirits of the dead who awaited their resurrection, judgment, and ultimate consignment to Heaven or Hell." Once agian correct...but not "before the cross" actually according to Revelations (paraphraseing) but until the end times and the souls change in fate is indeed caused by the cross. "According to Jesus' story of the rich man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31), Hades was composed of two compartments â?? Paradise and Torments." Eye eye eye....first off, its a parable, but I digress. Second, the story does not refer to Torments as a place, or Paradise as a part of Sheol (Hades) in fact, Hades is not mentioned here at all in the Strongs Concordance. (since you said you're new, this is an invaluable tool for bible study, ask a theology professor or minister about it). Jesus likely simplified the cosmology to help make the point, as it is a parable. In fact, "Paradise" here is conscidered to be "in the bosom of Abraham" Jesus is going for a Jewish-freindly story to hit it home with his audience. I really doubt that Abraham actually has a bunch of dead people glomping onto his chest... "The Bible indicates that the nature of Hades was radically changed at the time of the Cross. After His death on the Cross, Jesus descended into Hades and declared to all the spirits there His triumph over Satan through the shedding of His blood for the sins of Mankind (1 Peter 3:18-19; 4:6)" Now this just doesn't even say that. It mentions Jesus going to the spirits involved with the flood. "in which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison, 20. that aforetime were disobedient, when the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water:" no sheol again. I beleive the writer of the article is proposing a religous *theory*....one that is food for thought but....well...no evidence. His/her thesis is somewhat weak. "The Bible also indicates that after His resurrection, when He ascended to Heaven, Jesus took Paradise with Him, transferring the spirits of the righteous dead from Hades to Heaven (Ephesians 4:8-9 and 2 Corinthians 12:1-4)." Again I notice the word "indicates" and the obvious problem with this idea is that the quotes don't show the writer's interpretation. "The spirits of the righteous dead are thereafter pictured as being in Heaven before the throne of God (Revelation 6:9 and 7:9)." Now, first of all, this is dangerous. (at least for a practising Christian) If a person pulls any spin on Revelation, there is a curse at the back of the book, so its best to mention that you are paraphrasing....like me, paraphrasing (......safe!) the people are arising from the alter...i.e. (paraphrasing!) entering into God's presence, and the first thing they do is moan and, surprisingly, apparently cry for revenge. This is during the end times, they are then given white robes and told to wait (essentially, "there, there, wait just a little while longer") the white robes thing is important to note....that means they were not sanctified as of yet, and they also were in pain, this means they were not *in* paradise *yet*. Only then, at that moment, allowed in. And this is when the proverbial crap is hitting the fan on earth, as, they were told to wait for a few more that were still left on earth. also, the concept of sheol is hard to define, some have it as a place, other's have it as a STATE. tHis is why in my previous post, found the confusing, moaning state found in ghost stories similiar to the people mentioned in the revelations quote. suspicously similiar. Well, that's about it. One thing to note is that a lot of people in religion are going to try to put there own rhetoical spin on certain parts of the bible, but in the end you have to read it yourself, and find out what it means, also be logical about certain interpretations, like this web page was. Like I said before...."Just the facts, ma'am". oop, I got something at the page to add, "We must also remember that our beliefs about the duration of Hell are not on the plane of cardinal doctrine." in other words, the person who wrote this agreeing with me. He/she is out on a limb and they are responsibly informing the reader of this (although they wait until they are almost done....could've saved me half an hour of typing...grr...) (edited by Ares on 10-18-05 06:57 PM) |
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Shane -26- Ninji Level: 17  Posts: 131/239 EXP: 21382 For next: 3361 Since: 09-30-05 From: The Sunny SouthEast of Éire Since last post: 8 hours Last activity: 7 hours |
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| I sort of have two theorys about this. 1: When we die, we just die. It is the same as going to sleep just forever. 2: We are born again as someone else. I find it hard to choose which I believe in more. | |||
Arwon Zora Level: 35  Posts: 502/506 EXP: 278115 For next: 1821 Since: 03-15-04 From: Terra Australis Incognita Since last post: 5 hours Last activity: 10 min. |
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 I'm pretty sure this is what happens when you die. |
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Ares Blue Octorok Level: 12 Posts: 47/47 EXP: 7857 For next: 64 Since: 03-17-04 From: Uh...Olympus....yes, that will do..... Since last post: 12 days Last activity: 7 days |
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| man, some of you guys, you all seem angry.... this is beginning to look less like a debate and more like a angst throwing contest. Remember this is a place for debate and rhetoric, not displaying our personal grudges for everyone to see, among other things it is self-defeating. chill guys, chill. | |||
Clockworkz Birdo  "Hoargh! Take your shoes off!" Level: 64  Posts: 1952/2002 EXP: 2188320 For next: 25777 Since: 03-15-04 From: Undisclosed Since last post: 12 hours Last activity: 12 hours |
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I'm one of the few who does believe in Reincarnation. The thought of dying, and never living again is just... a real mind job, you know? I like the idea, I don't care if you do not. It's my beliefs, I'm entitled to them, just as much as you all are entitled to yours  |
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Slay Level: 25 Posts: 333/339 EXP: 85592 For next: 4028 Since: 04-28-05 From: Threshold Between Heaven and Hell Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 1 day |
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The Dracoon says... Some say, "Live every day as if it were your last." I say, "Live your life as if it's already ended." It worked for Spike... |
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Cruel Justice XD Level: 55  Posts: 1344/1384 EXP: 1253266 For next: 60923 Since: 03-20-04 From: Darkwoods Penetentiary Since last post: 11 hours Last activity: 7 hours |
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| Basically, you're buried, your body bloats up like a balloon from all the moisture and humidity, the maggots and things nibble on you for awhile, then you shrivel up and your eyes turn black, and your flesh finally breaks down and all the elements from your body goes down to the dirt. (sarcasm)Ah, isn't that lovely? | |||
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Shane -26- Ninji Level: 17 Posts: 181/239 EXP: 21382 For next: 3361 Since: 09-30-05 From: The Sunny SouthEast of Éire Since last post: 8 hours Last activity: 7 hours |
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Originally posted by Cruel Justice Hmmm....that thought is going to haunt me for a couple of hours.  Interesting though. |
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