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| 0 user currently in World Affairs / Debate. |
| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - World Affairs / Debate - August 6th, 1945 |
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Slay Level: 25 Posts: 257/339 EXP: 85592 For next: 4028 Since: 04-28-05 From: Threshold Between Heaven and Hell Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 1 day |
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| On this date, sixty years ago, the world entered the nuclear age, announcing it's arrival with 80,000 screams, leaving it's lasting impression on the landscape and it's unchangable, unforgettable impression on the human psyche. On this day, we should ask ourselves, as we sit back and enjoy the luxuries available to us through the outcome of war and the development of nuclear power; at what cost does this come to us? This anniversary has particular significance, what with the situation between the United States and the middle-east. Are we saited to continue trudging along the path to war? Let us not debate, but remember. Today, I weep for all of humanity. |
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alte Hexe Star Mario I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night Alive as you and me "But Joe you're ten years dead!" "I never died" said he "I never died!" said he Level: 99  Posts: 4981/5458 EXP: 9854489 For next: 145511 Since: 03-15-04 From: ... Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| No, I weep for humanity because Bush and Britain are considering allowing the use of tactical nuclear weapons. They haven't been tested on humans yet, so we don't know the full impact of a tactical explosion. That's frightening. http://board.acmlm.org/thread.php?id=16316 It's a little old, but this thread technically already exists. |
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Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101  Posts: 4900/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
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| Whenever we go to war, whether the reason is noble or not, we fail as human beings. All of us. When we use weapons like this, we only fail harder. It kind of makes one want to yell "What are you thinking?!" at the powers that be. How can they possibly be this blind and downright malicious? | |||
GeckoYamori Paratroopa Level: 18 Posts: 81/153 EXP: 25084 For next: 4813 Since: 05-10-05 Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 7 hours |
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| Just wait till we get anti-matter bombs, then you can start weeping for real. | |||
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Cymoro PATRICK DUFFY WILL LASER YOUR SOUL   Level: 67  Posts: 1972/2216 EXP: 2549743 For next: 43129 Since: 03-15-04 From: Cymoro Gaming Since last post: 6 hours Last activity: 4 hours |
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| It may had been a bad choice to use the bomb, but it was a much needed warning as to what could be in store for us if every power on Earth had a war with them. After the several different acts and disarmament treaties we had concerning nuclear weapons, it looks like we were paying attention. | |||
geeogree Bloober Level: 34  Posts: 393/448 EXP: 231583 For next: 22068 Since: 03-16-04 From: Calgary, Canada Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 11 hours |
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| I'm glad the bomb was used... better them than us in my opinion and really, if we had invaded Japan instead of dropping the bomb, I'm pretty sure more lives would have been lost on both sides than were lost because of the bomb |
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macks Level: 45 Posts: 780/900 EXP: 659955 For next: 209 Since: 03-15-04 From: Sweden Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 22 hours |
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| I'm pretty sure less civilians would have been killed. | |||
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geeogree Bloober Level: 34 Posts: 394/448 EXP: 231583 For next: 22068 Since: 03-16-04 From: Calgary, Canada Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 11 hours |
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| hard to say on that one.... we don't know how long the Japanese would have held out.... and there probably would have been extensive bombing runs on the major cities... it's possible that the same number of civilians along with a lot of soldiers that would have died.... depending on how long it took Japan to surrender remember, it took 2 bombs to stop the war.... we don't know to what lengths they would have fought if they didn't have to endure that |
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Arwon Zora Level: 35  Posts: 403/506 EXP: 278115 For next: 1821 Since: 03-15-04 From: Terra Australis Incognita Since last post: 5 hours Last activity: 10 min. |
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| The Japanese had already tried to surrender on the condition that the Emperor be retained. The Allies wanted unconditional surrender. The bombings were not militarily necessary, and the defence of "they hit me first" is the only defence... it's a flimsy one. There were other options. | |||
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geeogree Bloober Level: 34 Posts: 395/448 EXP: 231583 For next: 22068 Since: 03-16-04 From: Calgary, Canada Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 11 hours |
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| there are -always- other options.... but that doesn't mean the other options were going to be good ones | |||
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Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101 Posts: 4935/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
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| And it doesn't mean they're going to be bad ones either. I don't see how it could have been any worse from the irrational decision we made. | |||
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Mel (USER WAS TOTALLY AWESOME FOR THIS POST) Level: 47  Posts: 950/991 EXP: 762490 For next: 3713 Since: 03-15-04 From: secure tripcodes are for jerks Since last post: 17 min. Last activity: 16 min. |
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| If you take a look at the thinking behind the use of the bomb during World War II in 1945, you'd have to be an idiot to have not considered using the bomb given the circumstances. At that time, the Allied invasion of Japan, Operation Odyssey had already been uncovered by Japan. The Allies had originally planned to stage the initial invasion with nine divisions as opposed to the three stationed in northern Kyushu, so they could fight the Japanese 3:1. However, at that time, with the sudden buildup of manpower in the Kyushu region, Truman and his advisors believed that they would be fighting the Japanese 1:1 by the time the invasion date rolled around in early 1946, which isn't how you win a war. (The only one who wasn't opposed to the invasion was MacArthur.) |
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Slay Level: 25 Posts: 259/339 EXP: 85592 For next: 4028 Since: 04-28-05 From: Threshold Between Heaven and Hell Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 1 day |
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The Duke Nukem says... Statements like these make me unduly sad. "If you don't agree with me, you must be unintelligent." How depressing. |
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Grey the Stampede Don't mess with powers you don't understand. And yes. That means donuts. Level: 82  Posts: 2935/3770 EXP: 5192909 For next: 16318 Since: 06-17-04 From: Kingston, RI, USA, Earth Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
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| I believe what he was trying to say in a rather exaggerated sense was that the best tactical decision to make at the time was to use the bomb, regardless of what the varying opinions at the time were stating. That said, his assertion was based on fact, and you should stay on topic. MacArthur was, after all, considered a little lax in the brains department... Long on dash, short on neurotransmitters. Like most heroes. |
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Cymoro PATRICK DUFFY WILL LASER YOUR SOUL Level: 67 Posts: 1992/2216 EXP: 2549743 For next: 43129 Since: 03-15-04 From: Cymoro Gaming Since last post: 6 hours Last activity: 4 hours |
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Slay: Start arguing semantics and I will have this locked in a second. You know damn well what he meant when he said 'idiot'.Originally posted by Rear Admiral Grey Not to mention the fact that MacArthur disobeying orders was what got him kicked out of office. But that's another topic for another time. However, yes, the bomb was really the least-risk tactic for our troops, and at the time that's all that mattered. During war, the goal is to have the most people left alive, and that was the best option. |
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Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101 Posts: 4936/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
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| "During war, the goal is to have the most people left alive, and that was the best option." Yes, but like I said in the other thread, the troops are the ones who made a choice to die for his/her country and not the civilians. Collateral damage is one thing, blatant knowledge that you're going to kill thousands of innocent civilians on purpose is another. Like it's been stated, they had already offered a surrender. The war could have been over right there. |
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alte Hexe Star Mario I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night Alive as you and me "But Joe you're ten years dead!" "I never died" said he "I never died!" said he Level: 99 Posts: 5009/5458 EXP: 9854489 For next: 145511 Since: 03-15-04 From: ... Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| I've always found it odd. It was an act of war designed to scare one Georgian man and switched value of one single life to the value of over 600'000 (after the cancers, and such). |
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Danielle Local Moderator  Level: 76  Posts: 1614/3359 EXP: 3958078 For next: 47982 Since: 09-15-04 From: RATE Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 3 hours |
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Originally posted by Viceroy Legion Quoted because, well, he's right. Soldiers don't volunteer their lives to give up and use nukes. Especially when a surrender was offered. America wanted to flex their muscles, and it really wasn't worth it to show off like that. We had a thread like this not too long ago, I feel like I'm repeating myself and Leg. Double repeating ew. |
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Cymoro PATRICK DUFFY WILL LASER YOUR SOUL Level: 67 Posts: 1993/2216 EXP: 2549743 For next: 43129 Since: 03-15-04 From: Cymoro Gaming Since last post: 6 hours Last activity: 4 hours |
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Originally posted by DanielleOriginally posted by Viceroy Legion Straight from this bio of Hirohito: "After the loss of Okinawa Hirohito called on his ministers to seek a negotiated end to the conflict. However, his government refused, claiming that Japan and Germany could still win the war." Even though Hirohito wanted to surrender, the government didn't want to. No surrender was actually brought about before the bombing. Afterwards, Hirohito finally managed to get everyone to surrender, and unconditionally as well. |
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alte Hexe Star Mario I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night Alive as you and me "But Joe you're ten years dead!" "I never died" said he "I never died!" said he Level: 99 Posts: 5015/5458 EXP: 9854489 For next: 145511 Since: 03-15-04 From: ... Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| Actually, from what I've read the major military heirarchy attempted to capitulate following Hiroshima, but was held back by a sort of political "olde-boyz" club of the rich and some old noble blood. Additionally, the Emperor's household and various diplomats were throwing out "shit we have to save our ass lines" to the Americans 24/7 after Okinawa was taken (useless rock it is). Mind you, one of the major generals was so dead set against the surrender that he committed seppuku. The entire Japanese fascist oligarchy was very split over the future of the Chrysanthimum throne. All information that is currently gathered following the fall of Japan in WWII has to be taken with a grain of salt. The Soviets, Americans, Brits, French, etc. wanted everyone in their respective nations to think that their national hands were free of blood. The Americans, Brits and French went so far as to cover up SOVIET atrocities in Poland up until the 60s. God knows what else was covered up. (edited by alte Hexe on 08-09-05 08:47 PM) |
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