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1 user currently in Rom Hacking:  hukka |
| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - Rom Hacking - Split hack, good idea? |
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Is a hack split into two ROMs a good idea?| See description below. | Yes |
63.2%, 12 votes | No |
36.8%, 7 votes | Multi-voting is disabled.
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Golden Yoshi Pokey Level: 41  Posts: 475/693 EXP: 445575 For next: 34570 Since: 03-15-04 From: Edison, NJ Since last post: 17 hours Last activity: 8 hours |
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| I'm working on a hack (Yoshi's Island) and I used up a lot of room in the ROM from later worlds to make my earlier levels bigger. Now that I'm approaching the final two worlds, I don't have enough room to make levels really big, if anything the size and quality of the levels will go down due to the lack of space. So I was thinking of making this hack a "split" hack. I doubt anyone has ever done this before, because to me it sounds pretty stupid, but I feel I have no other choice if I want to make my later levels just as good, or even better, than my earlier levels. What I'd do is have the first four worlds on one ROM and the last two on a second ROM. The zip file would include two ips patches, plus a savegame so you can skip to World 5 in the second ROM once you've finished World 4. Obviously, you can just skip to World 5 if you want, but if you really want the proper gaming experience you could play it in order. So, is this a good idea? | |||
Celice Keese Level: 16  Posts: 11/128 EXP: 17573 For next: 2683 Since: 06-08-05 From: Oroville, CA Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| You know, I was just going over with my friends about having my hack span two or three ROMs. They would be connected by saves states for more space, od course. | |||
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Golden Yoshi Pokey Level: 41 Posts: 476/693 EXP: 445575 For next: 34570 Since: 03-15-04 From: Edison, NJ Since last post: 17 hours Last activity: 8 hours |
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| Yeah, like I said I would include a savegame, so after completing World 4 you can go to World 5. I just don't want the quality of levels to go down because of the lack of space, so this is the only solution I could think of. | |||
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Celice Keese Level: 16 Posts: 13/128 EXP: 17573 For next: 2683 Since: 06-08-05 From: Oroville, CA Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| And besides, with a split hack, you could (theoretically) have an infinite amount of space. Every little space counts! | |||
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Golden Yoshi Pokey Level: 41 Posts: 477/693 EXP: 445575 For next: 34570 Since: 03-15-04 From: Edison, NJ Since last post: 17 hours Last activity: 8 hours |
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| Hmm...four votes for "yes" so far, I'm starting to feel this is probably my best choice regarding the hack, unless someone says otherwise. | |||
PeterGriffinTheMan Deddorokku Level: 29  Posts: 194/425 EXP: 137018 For next: 10867 Since: 03-02-05 Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 6 hours |
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| I think people who make very long hacks need two roms to finish the whole hack. Like FF7 they had three discs. I agree. | |||
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Golden Yoshi Pokey Level: 41 Posts: 480/693 EXP: 445575 For next: 34570 Since: 03-15-04 From: Edison, NJ Since last post: 17 hours Last activity: 8 hours |
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| Alright, awesome, I never knew that anyone has done this before, otherwise I probably would've never asked and just have did it. | |||
BGNG Snifit Level: 22  Posts: 74/276 EXP: 56579 For next: 1771 Since: 06-03-05 Since last post: 8 days Last activity: 3 hours |
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| I personally prefer to patch things to a ROM and be done with it. If you can expand the size of the ROM (which I'm sure is entirely possible), do that instead of issuing two IPS patches. | |||
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Golden Yoshi Pokey Level: 41 Posts: 481/693 EXP: 445575 For next: 34570 Since: 03-15-04 From: Edison, NJ Since last post: 17 hours Last activity: 8 hours |
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| Well obviously this has come across my mind, and if I knew how to do it I most definitely would. Unless someone here knows how I would go about doing this, any help would be appreciated. | |||
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tuna ... Level: 3 Posts: 352/2 EXP: 51 For next: 77 Since: 12-02-04 Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 1 day |
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| Lunar Expand won't work? >__> (THen again, I know nothing about expanding, but it just came to mind.... that's what you cna use with SMW ROMs anyway, but you never know) |
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HyperLamer <||bass> and this was the soloution i thought of that was guarinteed to piss off the greatest amount of people Sesshomaru Tamaranian Level: 118 Posts: 5217/8210 EXP: 18171887 For next: 211027 Since: 03-15-04 From: Canada, w00t! LOL FAD Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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Only split if necessary. I don't imagine why you can't expand the ROM and repoint them. Multi-ROM games would be a pain because if you wanted to move between the first and second half you would have to close the emulator and open a different ROM, and if it were at all well-designed they would share a save file so you would need to rename that too.  |
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Sukasa Boomboom Error 349857348734534: The system experienced an error. Level: 57  Posts: 946/1981 EXP: 1446921 For next: 39007 Since: 02-06-05 From: *Shrug* Since last post: 6 days Last activity: 1 day |
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| I think that you should try to expand the ROM, but if that doessn't work then yeah, use two ROMs. | |||
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FuSoYa Defender of Relm Level: 26  Posts: 204/255 EXP: 99529 For next: 2746 Since: 03-15-04 From: Moon Since last post: 7 days Last activity: 7 hours |
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| YI ROM expansion has been discussed here a few times before. AFAIK, the map for SFX games doesn't go beyond 2 MB. |
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Squash Monster New Age Retro Hippie Togateiru Fohku Kohgeki!! GRUNGE no HAMSTER otona bite Peace love and turnpike! Level: 40 Posts: 611/677 EXP: 430507 For next: 10802 Since: 03-15-04 From: Maryland (of the Country Between Canada and Mexico) Since last post: 5 hours Last activity: 5 hours |
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| Last time I saw talk about expanding Yoshi's Island, nobody knew how to do it because the game was rather split-personality when it came to deciding if it was HiRom or LoRom (something to do with the SuperFX chip or something, I don't remember well). If somebody knows the right way to expand it, though, then it'd be very easy to repoint levels into the expanded space. And EggVine shouldn't choke on it if you put a bit of data for it to read back there. Specifically, (from memory, don't kill me if it doesn't work) wherever you point two needs a ten byte header (what's in it shouldn't actually matter), at least one object (00 00 00 number-of-your-favorite-object-out-of-"O4Sdata.dat" should be enough), an FF to signal the start of screen exits, an FF to signal the end of screen exits, as many 00s as you can stand so EggVine loads that area as free bytes, and any other byte to end the free space (EV would most likely read past end of file if you didn't put that there  ). You'll need a second area of data like this for sprites as well. I'm pretty sure this one can just be two FFs, a lot of 00s, and a byte to end it.In summary: --Expand the ROM. --Go to ROM adress: BF9C3 + (6 * levelIndex) and use the first three bytes you run into there to point to where in your expanded area you put the level. Use the next three bytes to point to where you want the sprites. Some pointers are HiROM and some are LoROM and I'm not sure what determines which you should use. --Put 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 85 FF FF (lots of 00s) 2Awhere you want a level. 85 and 2A don't matter, they just happen to make a fish-shaped platform and be a spiffy number, respectively. --Put FF FF (lots of 00s) 2A where you want to put your sprites. Once again, 2A is any random spiffy number. And I'm sorry I didn't get that level-defragmenter finished this week. Between the presentation I have to give next week and being sick, I've not had much time to do fun stuff like this  .EDIT: Darn, FuSoYa ninja'ed my post. Well, there you have it -- unless you find something new, use two ROMs. As a player, I wouldn't have a problem with it. (edited by Squash Monster on 06-23-05 08:51 PM) |
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Vystrix Nexoth Level: 30 Posts: 332/348 EXP: 158678 For next: 7191 Since: 03-15-04 From: somewhere between anima and animus Since last post: 3 days Last activity: 2 days |
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| One of the basic tenets of ROM hacking is working with what you have available. You don't put stuff in the ROM, you replace what's already there (unless you perform ROM expansion). I voted "no": if you want more stuff than the original cartridge setup could handle, then expand the ROM. Splitting it across two ROMs, and then calling it a single ROM hack, is a cop-out. It says, "I couldn't do it, I couldn't put what I wanted into this ROM, so I rigged up this bastardized project where I put only part of what I wanted into the ROM, because that's all I'm capable of fitting in there, and put the rest in a different copy of the ROM". It's two half-hacks, not one full hack. As I said, one of the key concepts in ROM hacking is replacing, not adding, content. Often times there's simply too much stuff to put into a game, whether the limitations are in the console, in the cartridge, or in the way the game allocates cartridge space for various things such as level data. To make it work, you will have to make some sacrifices. To cop-out by splitting it into two hacks would be like, say, making a Windows version of the game and modifying that: it gives you more creative leg room, but then you don't get the prestige of having hacked it under the same terms as hackers past. And those things don't even take into account the technical difficulties involved in trying to play such a hack. Switching save-game files around, dicking around with save-states, whatever... cartridges weren't designed for that. You want something in the game, you put it on the cart. If it won't fit on the cart, make it bigger. If you can't do that, you're SOL. (edited by Vystrix Nexoth on 06-23-05 09:35 PM) |
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HyperLamer <||bass> and this was the soloution i thought of that was guarinteed to piss off the greatest amount of people Sesshomaru Tamaranian Level: 118 Posts: 5229/8210 EXP: 18171887 For next: 211027 Since: 03-15-04 From: Canada, w00t! LOL FAD Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| Well if you absolutely can not get something to work on the real system, then it's acceptable to use a hackish solution, but you should always strive to ensure that your hacks could be played if they were to be put on a flash ROM and stuck into a real cartridge. (If possible, do so!) And yes, that does apply in this case, because you can't very well cart-swap on a SNES, let alone copy save files between the two. |
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FuSoYa Defender of Relm Level: 26 Posts: 205/255 EXP: 99529 For next: 2746 Since: 03-15-04 From: Moon Since last post: 7 days Last activity: 7 hours |
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| Not sure if you've already thought of this or how much space you need, but have you tried using ycompress? The compression from it is somewhat better than the original, and can free up about 0xB355 bytes when using the original graphics. You may be able to squeeze out a bit more if you blank out the tiles for the other languages. |
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HyperLamer <||bass> and this was the soloution i thought of that was guarinteed to piss off the greatest amount of people Sesshomaru Tamaranian Level: 118 Posts: 5244/8210 EXP: 18171887 For next: 211027 Since: 03-15-04 From: Canada, w00t! LOL FAD Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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Jeez, that's like 45K.  And does YI even have a language selector? |
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Cellar Dweller Flurry !!! Level: 27  Posts: 231/269 EXP: 107817 For next: 8342 Since: 03-15-04 From: Arkansas Since last post: 16 days Last activity: 34 min. |
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| Have you tried using the chunk of free space after text data? "FF FF FF FE"= free space Use the HiROM version of the pointer to avoid trouble. |
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Squash Monster New Age Retro Hippie Togateiru Fohku Kohgeki!! GRUNGE no HAMSTER otona bite Peace love and turnpike! Level: 40 Posts: 615/677 EXP: 430507 For next: 10802 Since: 03-15-04 From: Maryland (of the Country Between Canada and Mexico) Since last post: 5 hours Last activity: 5 hours |
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| In some versions, yes. Not the one most of us hack though. Golden Yoshi and I were trying to find a solution for quite some time last night. While trying to find Cellar Dweller's post on how to work with the level pointers, I stumbled upon something extremely useful that he said that I apparently missed before. There's a massive chunk of free space right after all the text data. And, after browsing around the level pointer, we discovered that right after all the used levels is a swarm of FFs, so we're also almost certain that we can use about 20 more level pointers than the original game used. No luck getting a new level in yet though. I think I'm missing my the data with my pointer, but every time I try to read it by hand it works. EDIT: And once again I take too long to post. Yeah, as it says above, we're trying that data right now, actually. The main problem is less space than number of level indexes in the pointer table. EDIT again: Hahaha, it's alive! Now hopefully YI will read indexes higher than it was intended to without doing anything funky on us. Thanks everyone who helped. (edited by Squash Monster on 06-24-05 11:16 AM) (edited by Squash Monster on 06-24-05 11:17 AM) (edited by Squash Monster on 06-24-05 11:31 AM) (edited by Squash Monster on 06-24-05 11:33 AM) |
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| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - Rom Hacking - Split hack, good idea? |
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