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1 user currently in Rom Hacking:  hukka |
| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - Rom Hacking - SMB3 music |
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Jaspile Red Koopa Level: 20  Posts: 110/133 EXP: 37467 For next: 4972 Since: 03-15-04 From: Paris, France Since last post: 20 hours Last activity: 11 hours |
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| So, I've been playing with SMB3 music format and I almost have understood it entirely ; now I have to write it in a comprehensible form and release it. However I just thought "SMB2 might have the same format" ; and that was true, and now here's a patch to replace plain's music with smb2 overworld music : http://klikechange.free.fr/smb3/Super_Mario_Bros_3_(SMB2music).ips However I may have overwritten other musics' data; so this is for experimental use only. |
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Kitten Yiffer Purple wand Furry moderator Vivent l'exp����¯�¿�½������©rience de signalisation d'amusement, ou bien ! Level: 135 Posts: 10188/11162 EXP: 28824106 For next: 510899 Since: 03-15-04 From: Sweden Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 4 min. |
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Considering how unrelated SMB2 is actually with Mario (it's Doki Doki panic with improvments basically). I'm surprised how interchangable thoose two games musics apparently are. So there should be more games who uses the same music format too then.  I wonder if Doki Doki panic uses the same music system, which is probably does as it does sound the same almost. So maybe SMB3 is using some common music format (that probably was in some Devoloper kits, so i'm not too surprised if it have a name.) |
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The Great Guy Octoballoon Level: 22  Posts: 161/170 EXP: 53084 For next: 5266 Since: 04-08-04 Since last post: 130 days Last activity: 73 days |
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Wow, thats pretty cool. I wonder what other games have compatable formats, with games from the same series having relating formats like that, music replacing could actually make it into a good few hacks. *imagines FF3j boss music in FF1* |
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Jaspile Red Koopa Level: 20 Posts: 111/133 EXP: 37467 For next: 4972 Since: 03-15-04 From: Paris, France Since last post: 20 hours Last activity: 11 hours |
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| Maybe they just stole DokiDoki Panic's music format ; I can also precise that the noise channel is separated in 2 sets of instruments in SMB3 (whereas there's only one in SMB2), so the song parts headers have one more byte - in spite of that, the formats seem to be the same. I'll see in some other games if the format looks similar (it's very easy thanks to FCEUXD's code/data logger  )EDIT: tested it on three games : SMB1 : Similar but not exactly the same ; doesn't crash game anyway but sounds glitchy because of the different instruments probably Zelda1 : Similar but not exactly the same ; doesn't crash game anyway but sounds glitchy because of the different instruments probably Song parts pointers work differently ( 8 bytes ) Zelda2 : Looks similar (song parts, headers, tracks), but with different bytes 'coding' (can't even hear anything of the original song when inserted in smb3) ; doesn't crash game though (edited by Jaspile on 06-22-05 12:52 PM) |
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bbitmaster Koopa Level: 18  Posts: 80/103 EXP: 25264 For next: 4633 Since: 03-28-04 From: Knoxville, tTN Since last post: 12 days Last activity: 7 days |
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| It's actually pretty suprising how many games share music engines. I've got a program that lets me search my entire nes rom collection for a string of hex. Just for fun, I like searching out parts of subroutines to see what games share them. I played around with this a while back and found that companies tend to re-use music engines more than anything else. here's some of the common ones - just note that this may not be entirely correct, I searched for some generic strings that could have cropped up in an unrelated game. Capcom Music Engine 1 This is a common music engine used in earlier capcom games 1943 Bionic Commando Commando Destiny of an Emperor Gun Smoke Higemaru Makaijima - Nanatsu no Shima Dai Bouken Hitler no Fukkatsu - Top Secret Ide Yousuke Meijin no Jissen Mahjong Legendary Wings Mega Man Mega Man 2 Pro Yakyuu Satsujin Jiken! (J) Rockman Rockman 2 Section Z Senjou no Ookami Tenchi wo Kurau Trojan Willow Capcom "Takeru" Music Engine The reason I call it the "takeru" engine is because it appears in Cocoron which isn't a capcom game at all. But it definately has the same music engine. Cocoron has Takeru listed in the title screen. Could Takeru have been Capcom in disquise? The only other game that mentions takeru on the title screen is Little Samson, and it actually reminds me a lot of a megaman game. Matrixz wrote some extensive documentation on this engine, in which he named it the "6C80" Engine because of some hex string. But I still like to call it "Takeru." Cocoron Darkwing Duck Gargoyle's Quest 2 Little Mermaid Megaman 3 Megaman 4 Megaman 5 Megaman 6 Mighty Final Fight Red Arimaa 2 Rockman 3 Rockman 4 Rockman 5 Rockman 6 Talespin Tenchi wo Kurau 2 - Shokatsu Koumei Den Wily & Light no Rockboard - That's Paradise Sunsoft Engine The next music engine I searched for was the sunsoft one. I absolutely love the style of music used in this engine. Almost every one of these games have great music - the best are Batman ROTJ, Gimmick!, and UFOuria. Batman Return of the Joker Battle Formula Dynamite Batman Gimmick! Gremlins 2 Hebereke Honoo no Toukyuuji Journey to Silius Pyokotan no Dai Meiro Raf World Shanghai 2 Super Spy Hunter Ufouria RARE Music Engine I did a search on this engine from some code in battletoads. This code appeared in all of the following games. What really suprised me was to see it in marble madness, which is a Tengen game! Further searches revealed that marble madness may indeed use some code from the RARE games, but it could be a false lead. I really love music style in these games, you can tell that they use the same engine just by listening to them. Anticipation Arch Rivals Battletoads Battletoads Double Dragon Beetlejuice Cabal Captian Skyhawk Danny Sullivan's Indy Heat Digger - The legend of the Lost City Double Dare High Speed Ironsword - Wizard's & Warriors 2 Ivan Ironman Stewart's Super Offroad Jeopardy 25th Anniversary Edition Jeopardy! Junior Edition John Elway's Quarterback Jordan Vs Bird Marble Madness *** NARC Nightmare On elm Street Pinbot Pirates! RC Pro-Am 2 Sesame Street 123 Sesame Street ABC - 123 Silent Service Solar Jetman - Hunt for the Golden Warpship Super Gloveball Super Offroad Taboo - The Sixth Sense Time Lord Wheel of Fortune Family Edition Who Framed Roger Rabbit Wizard's & Warriors 3 Wrestlemania Challenge (Europe) WWF Wrestlemania Challenge I did several other searches, and found several other popular engines. But I don't feel like digging for the list right now. One very suprising find was that Astyanax, Battle of Olympus, and the japanese version of Airwolf (not the US version) all use the same music engine. This is extremely odd because they all have different companies listed on the title screen. Another thing I did was search for the SMB3 engine, and only found it in SMB3. and I searched for the SMB2 engine and only found it in SMB2. So while they may use the same music format, they definately didn't share engine code. While I was searching, I tried to look for generic code that did not access any specific ram locations, because I've seen a game use the same engine, but have it use different memory locations to store things. (one example of this was gimmick! and batman). a set of calculations followed by some relative branch instructions is usually the best thing to look for. Is it possible to copy music from one of these games to another if they use the same engine? I'd say definately. (edited by bbitmaster on 06-22-05 01:35 PM) |
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Acmlm Torosu heh Level: 51  Posts: 1143/1173 EXP: 981994 For next: 31944 Since: 03-15-04 From: Somewhere that isn't outside of Sherbrooke, Québec, Canada Since last post: 39 days Last activity: 3 hours |
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I found out years ago about SMB2 and SMB3 using very similar formats for music data ... and I looked at pretty much all of SMB2's music code last year to figure out how everything worked (including the sound effects, which use at least 3 different formats), but for some reason I never tried copying music from one to the other  The instrument data (square type/volume progression) works exactly the same way in both, though, and also SMB1 but with less bytes ... I know I made SMB2 music sound like SMB1 once (late 2002?), like this Also, from looking really quickly once, FF2j seemed to use the same music format as FF1, but FF3j is probably different since it has more features (like PCM and pitchbend) ... |
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Dark Ludwig Red Paratroopa Level: 21  Posts: 37/172 EXP: 45740 For next: 4203 Since: 09-17-04 From: Georgia Since last post: 9 days Last activity: 2 days |
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| I hope this isn't TOO off-topic, but I really wanna know without making a new thread, so...... What music engine does Ice Climber use? |
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Yoronosuku Bullet Bill YORO 4 GOD Level: 32 Posts: 245/502 EXP: 194954 For next: 11488 Since: 01-06-05 From: hailing from Oyamazaki, Kyoto Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 4 hours |
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Originally posted by Jaspile It is really that it is different instruments, simply a different square wave duty is defined. SMB3 also uses that famous PCM chanel. Alot. So, that is why its music will mess up in most of the other games. DDP is NOT the same. It has a special chip that allows it to use 5 chanels. You heard me, 5 SMB2 does not do this. The DDP songs that were kept were dumbed down for SMB2, and are alot different in the real form. |
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BMF98567 BLACK HAS BUILT A SILLY DICE-MAZE! GO! Current list of BURNING FURY >8( recipients: - Yiffy Kitten (x2) - Xkeeper Level: 53  Posts: 949/1261 EXP: 1094149 For next: 62970 Since: 03-15-04 From: Blobaria Special Move: Rising Meatloaf Backhand Combo Since last post: 21 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
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Originally posted by YoronosukuAnd yet, the SMB2 versions sound so much better. Are you sure Nintendo used FDS channels in DDP's music? I thought they were only used for sound effects... |
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dan Snap Dragon Level: 43  Posts: 617/782 EXP: 534516 For next: 30530 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 20 hours Last activity: 14 hours |
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Originally posted by bbitmaster Marble Madness apparently is a Rare game. At least, according to the title screen of the european version. Does California Games also use the Rare music engine? |
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hamtaro126 Shyguy Level: 16 Posts: 27/83 EXP: 17272 For next: 2984 Since: 05-29-04 From: hacktown, USA Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
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| Sorry for bumping old threads, But i was making a good hack, but i need to tell you 3 things, 1. BBitmaster, Can you make (if possible) me a document for the Hebereke\Ufouria music format and locations, 2. I Know that California Games and Marble Madness are Rare games, And might have the Same engine 3. I like the music hack, Not you Bbitmaster, But the one who made/found It! That is all, |
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bbitmaster Koopa Level: 18 Posts: 81/103 EXP: 25264 For next: 4633 Since: 03-28-04 From: Knoxville, tTN Since last post: 12 days Last activity: 7 days |
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Originally posted by hamtaro126 Wow, that's quite a request. There's no way I'm doing all that for you for. FCEUXD is out, the 6502 is well documented. NES Sound is well documented. You've got everything you need, so go make your own document. |
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Dwedit Shyguy Level: 17  Posts: 63/92 EXP: 20794 For next: 3949 Since: 04-26-04 Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 1 day |
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| I wonder if someone could check and see if all these games use the same music engine: Athena 1942 Ghosts and goblins Mottomo Abunai Deka Tiger Heli (edited by Dwedit on 06-23-05 07:14 PM) |
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Dark Ludwig Red Paratroopa Level: 21 Posts: 39/172 EXP: 45740 For next: 4203 Since: 09-17-04 From: Georgia Since last post: 9 days Last activity: 2 days |
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Originally posted by bbitmasterI've Googled and Googled, and I could never find any documentations on that... Ah, if someone could tell me where a documentation on that is, as well as answer my question 7 posts up, that'd be great. Thanks! |
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bbitmaster Koopa Level: 18 Posts: 82/103 EXP: 25264 For next: 4633 Since: 03-28-04 From: Knoxville, tTN Since last post: 12 days Last activity: 7 days |
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Originally posted by dark ludwigOriginally posted by bbitmasterI've Googled and Googled, and I could never find any documentations on that... You must not have googled hard enough. The too best documents on nes sound can be found here http://nesdev.parodius.com/apu_ref.txt http://nesdev.parodius.com/2A03%20technical%20reference.txt Of course, there are plenty of other great documents, and examples all over the place at nesdev.parodius.net |
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