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1 user currently in Super Mario World hacking:  labmaster |
| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - Super Mario World hacking - Lunar Magic interface flaws/issues |
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Jesper Busy, busy, busy. Level: 69  Posts: 236/2390 EXP: 2856000 For next: 13743 Since: 03-15-04 From: Sweden. Since last post: 176 days Last activity: 79 days |
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There are a few things in LM that bugs me. It's pretty much feature-complete for what it's supposed to do, but the interface has some serious flaws.
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BMF98567 BLACK HAS BUILT A SILLY DICE-MAZE! GO! Current list of BURNING FURY >8( recipients: - Yiffy Kitten (x2) - Xkeeper Level: 53  Posts: 101/1261 EXP: 1094149 For next: 62970 Since: 03-15-04 From: Blobaria Special Move: Rising Meatloaf Backhand Combo Since last post: 21 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
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You hit the nail right on the head, there. #1 is the primary reason it takes me so long to make a level.  One suggestion that was brought up in the past was to make a large dialog with all the available objects laid out visually, and organized by type (item blocks, coins/collectible items, ledges and slopes, etc.) They wouldn't even need to be full-size, they could be shrunk down to half-size and still be recognizable for the most part. In response, FuSoYa said you could make a level with all the available objects and sprites and open it in a new Lunar Magic window, since copy+paste uses the standard Windows clipboard. I may actually do that, myself, and make it available for download.  Also, someone (me, I think) suggested that LM allow objects to be pasted into the blank area below the level, kind of like a temporary clipboard (the objects wouldn't be saved with the level). That way, you could arrange common level structures and keep them readily available instead of having to scroll back and forth in the level, looking for the right pieces. [EDIT] Alright, I've made a template level with lots of commonly-used objects, as well as a few sprites. This doesn't contain any tileset-specific objects, since the list always changes, but it does contain a large number of extended objects, including the hard-to-find corner tiles. Enjoy! (edited by BMF54123 on 04-04-04 05:23 PM) |
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dan Snap Dragon Level: 43  Posts: 34/782 EXP: 534516 For next: 30530 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 20 hours Last activity: 14 hours |
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| FuSoYa said that he would only fix bugs, if any were found. Lunar Magic will probably never get any new features, so threads like these are kinda meaningless. | |||
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HyperLamer <||bass> and this was the soloution i thought of that was guarinteed to piss off the greatest amount of people Sesshomaru Tamaranian Level: 118 Posts: 278/8210 EXP: 18171887 For next: 211027 Since: 03-15-04 From: Canada, w00t! LOL FAD Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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BMF: I like that idea. I originally said the objects should all be laid out there in a drag-and-drop interface, but your idea might work better for lower resolutions.  (Of course it'd still be better if, when you drag an object off the clipboard, the original stays there; to get rid of it just click it and hit Delete.)The arrangement of objects/sprites is mostly due to their ID, unfortunately just about everything's a random Extended Object (object #0, the size indicates the actual block, hence why they're all 1x1). Arranging them alphabetically or by type (all the Koopas together, all the coins, etc) might work better. |
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Jesper Busy, busy, busy. Level: 69 Posts: 239/2390 EXP: 2856000 For next: 13743 Since: 03-15-04 From: Sweden. Since last post: 176 days Last activity: 79 days |
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| A lot of these are bugs. Not as in misbehaving, but as not following Windows guidelines or just plain common sense. Open a Windows Explorer window, for example C:\, and turn on detailed list view. Start to type the name of the file you want to arrive at, and you will arrive at that. You will not need to type, say, the file size beforehand, as, theoretically, is the case with the LM objects/sprites palettes. I'd suggest a switch to the List View, but I know that would be a lot of needless programming to achieve next to no effect, so I'll settle for just optionally showing the number and axis info, which solves the problem today and doesn't hurt anyone. |
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Surlent サーレント Level: 49  Posts: 129/1077 EXP: 863920 For next: 19963 Since: 03-15-04 From: Tower of Lezard Valeth Since last post: 16 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
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| Making the object and sprite editor windows resizable would be good indeed. As fir Jespers suggestion using that ruler, I'd go a little further: I would like to have a small window which is like a scroll/preview of the current level (like a very tiny version of the level editor window, just that it shows a fixed symbol for every screen); it is impossible to see all objects; but as for screen exits for example, some screen(s) could be marked in different colors or with little icons on that: "E" - screen exit here; right-click on the level scroll opens up a context menu like "Goto screen/Modify screen exit/Delete" "M" - midway point location - right click shows "Goto screen/open up midway/start point dialog window". If the start and midway point were in the same screen, it could display "S/M" for example. |
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Alastor the Stylish Hey! I made a cool game! It's called "I poisoned half the food, so if you eat you might die!" Have a taco.  Level: 114  Posts: 347/7620 EXP: 16258468 For next: 51099 Since: 03-15-04 From: Oregon, US Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| If I'm reading it correctly, Jesper does not like having to scroll up to see screen exits and numbers and stuff. That can be solved simply by resizing the window, if you're using a relatively new Windows version it'll save the placement and size of the window every time you open it. | |||
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Jesper Busy, busy, busy. Level: 69 Posts: 240/2390 EXP: 2856000 For next: 13743 Since: 03-15-04 From: Sweden. Since last post: 176 days Last activity: 79 days |
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| I always run LM maximized, so that's not an issue, but I just dislike having the whole thing cluttered unless I really need to. Screen borders are nice to have all the time, but I don't necessarily like it there, even when it's transculent. That suggestion was kind of minor, though. I'd like far better that the palettes were improved than that this happened, if I had to pick. | |||
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cpubasic13 17 years old now. Time to buy some M rated games by myself! Level: 54  Posts: 174/1346 EXP: 1206934 For next: 26936 Since: 03-15-04 From: Blame my parents, Eddy Since last post: 2 days Last activity: 1 day |
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| I like the idea of pressing a letter and going to the sprite you want. I hate having to look through the tileset specific sprites to find the sprite I want when there is a bunch of garbage sprites distracting me. I like the idea about the sprites currently in the level idea. It would be easier for me to add more sprites that I want to use. I like your idea, BMF. That would be more organized and easier for me to add stuff. (edited by cpubasic13 on 04-04-04 08:06 PM) |
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HyperLamer <||bass> and this was the soloution i thought of that was guarinteed to piss off the greatest amount of people Sesshomaru Tamaranian Level: 118 Posts: 280/8210 EXP: 18171887 For next: 211027 Since: 03-15-04 From: Canada, w00t! LOL FAD Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| Well why not just move the ID to the end of the name and put them all in one list? (Have it like "Walk-Through Dirt 00" (with a tab there).) I'd like to see more SMW bug fixes/workarounds. For example, allow the midway point to be anywhere in the level. And how about an ASM hack to allow using any value for the FG/BG placements, to get rid of them damn bugs where it won't work no matter where you put it? (And for that matter, how about actually rendering the BG in the position it'd appear in the game?  ) |
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Kario In Possession of a Stolen Shovel Level: 65 Posts: 228/2082 EXP: 2321379 For next: 14249 Since: 03-15-04 From: Texas... Yeehaw! Since last post: 2 days Last activity: 17 hours |
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| What he is saying is, its in the way on the level screen. That big blackness at the bottom could be used for something. | |||
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HyperLamer <||bass> and this was the soloution i thought of that was guarinteed to piss off the greatest amount of people Sesshomaru Tamaranian Level: 118 Posts: 282/8210 EXP: 18171887 For next: 211027 Since: 03-15-04 From: Canada, w00t! LOL FAD Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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I mentioned that but I doubt it'll happen. (Though my resolution's big enough that I can just put the windows there.  ) |
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FuSoYa Defender of Relm Level: 26  Posts: 14/255 EXP: 99529 For next: 2746 Since: 03-15-04 From: Moon Since last post: 7 days Last activity: 7 hours |
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Originally posted by Jesper Just because something bugs you or doesn't follow suggested guidelines hardly means it's a bug. Yes, it would probably be useful to add a new feature to make finding sprites in the list easier, but I'm trying to avoid making new features for LM. Removing the ID would currently disable the window's ability to list which GFX files the game originally uses for sprites (an acceptable tradeoff for some perhaps, but still...). A find function would be better, but that would be more work. I still think using a separate ROM that has a few levels containing a listing of the objects/sprites arranged by tileset might be more useful. Besides, releasing a new version just for something as minor as this would not be following good software release guidelines or just plain common sense.  |
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Jesper Busy, busy, busy. Level: 69 Posts: 243/2390 EXP: 2856000 For next: 13743 Since: 03-15-04 From: Sweden. Since last post: 176 days Last activity: 79 days |
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Originally posted by FuSoYaAll good points.Originally posted by Jesper This beast is two problems. One: Toggling display of ID and axis info at the start of the list box in the objects/sprites palettes. ("01 XY Water tiles" hinders me to type "Water" into the list box and have it take me to that, since there's other data in the way.) But there's absolutely nothing that blocks you from storing the ID and axis info in an array aside from the real list data, and I'm really surprised right now that, if I get you right, you're not storing it anywhere else, or atleast you're relying on the 'live' list data for other controls. I don't doubt that the ID and axis info is needed, hell, even required, to some folks or the program, I just think that there should be an option to hide it if you want to, to allow me to type in the list and have it go to the item I want. And no, this doesn't warrant a new version, although I think this is the second or even third time I have suggested this, so I'm still a bit surprised that something that would be relatively trivial (ASM hacks, STAR tracking, multiple ROM version support vs an option for a listbox) and that would do SO MUCH for the wonders of usability is not implemented. And Two: Some more advanced filtering or searching of the data. The lay them out on a level in another copy approach would be superb, but it wouldn't be dynamic. You couldn't say "here's the stuff you probably want to use for these SP values", which you could do if Fu were to add such categories in the dropdowns. Now for this I won't blame him. This would probably be way harder to do than what's suggested in One, above. And finally, Fu, aside from "politics", what's keeping you from adding some of these features (and not necessarily releasing them as a new version)? Haven't you ever hit these 'walls' before when doing the parts of Demo World that you made? Or do you already know all IDs by heart? |
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Smallhacker Green Birdo SMW Hacking Moderator Level: 68  Posts: 83/2273 EXP: 2647223 For next: 81577 Since: 03-15-04 From: Söderhamn, Sweden Since last post: 10 hours Last activity: 9 hours |
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| Something that always makes me annoyed is the tool tips, or to be more specific... The lack of tool tips. When you put your mouse over something in the add object window, you can see their tool tip. That's nice. However, when you're in the 16x16 tile editor, there are no tool tips, which requires that you must have both the 16x16 tile editor and the add objects window open to make sure that you edit the correct tile. That annoyes me almost every single day.  Solution: Add tool tips to the 16x16 tile editor. |
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macks Level: 45 Posts: 116/900 EXP: 659955 For next: 209 Since: 03-15-04 From: Sweden Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 22 hours |
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| You wouldn't have to delete the ID. There has to be some easy way to code it so that the first three (or something) numbers/letters are ignored when typing to find something. | |||
Cellar Dweller Flurry !!! Level: 27  Posts: 26/269 EXP: 107817 For next: 8342 Since: 03-15-04 From: Arkansas Since last post: 16 days Last activity: 34 min. |
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Originally posted by Jesper I seem to remember reading in another thread that he wants to move on to other projects. If that is the case, I believe that he should release the source code to Lunar Magic so that the SMW hacking community can continue to improve it. |
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macks Level: 45 Posts: 117/900 EXP: 659955 For next: 209 Since: 03-15-04 From: Sweden Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 22 hours |
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| Releasing the source code to the public? No. Releasing it to people he know will make good stuff out of it? Yes. | |||
Zemus Sand Crab Level: 25 Posts: 181/233 EXP: 86920 For next: 2700 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 281 days Last activity: 111 days |
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| Okay, I'm late on the reply, but yeah, I agree about the add sprites/objects window. I've tried to type the name of a sprite each new version that's released and realize that it doesn't work I'd love for it to say turn block ## instead of ## turn block. That aside, another thing mentioned was the black space at the bottom... I'm at 1600x1200... so I can pretty much fit a second horizontal level in there. I dunno what to do with the space, though. lol One suggestion I'd like to make is, at 1600x1200 the world map is a bit hard to see in some aspects... any chance we could get a view option say... Zoom 50%/100%/150%/200%? it'd be kinda nice so I don't have to get all close to the monitor just to see what I'm editing This is only a factor on overworld.... level editing is still fine, but the sprites on overworld are so tiny that it's hard to know what the hell you're doing Just a thought... so I don't have to download that microsoft magnifying glass just to use Overworld Editor |
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Jesper Busy, busy, busy. Level: 69 Posts: 255/2390 EXP: 2856000 For next: 13743 Since: 03-15-04 From: Sweden. Since last post: 176 days Last activity: 79 days |
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Originally posted by MaxYes, but it'd take longer to code than just (optionally) hiding it. |
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| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - Super Mario World hacking - Lunar Magic interface flaws/issues |
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