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| 0 user currently in World Affairs / Debate. |
| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - World Affairs / Debate - War in Iraq |
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Can the war in Iraq be justified?| Yes |
41.7%, 10 votes | No |
50.0%, 12 votes | Don't know |
8.3%, 2 votes | Multi-voting is disabled.
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geeogree Bloober Level: 34  Posts: 361/448 EXP: 231583 For next: 22068 Since: 03-16-04 From: Calgary, Canada Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 11 hours |
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| bah.... if the US wants oil.... why not come get the largest supply they can get... Canada's!!!!! there is more oil in Canada than there is in basically any other country... and the price is high enough that we can actually bother getting at it |
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Vulkar Red Paragoomba Level: 12 Posts: 8/61 EXP: 6073 For next: 1848 Since: 05-24-05 Since last post: 53 days Last activity: 10 hours |
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| Slay, I never attacked or insulted, I offered my opinion. And Emporer, you didn't answer my question. Where is the oil? Many witnesses claim that we are leaving the oil there, and having no effect. Lastly, I never said that our goal was to eliminate potential threats, I simply said that's what put Iraq over Arabia, which I still believe has more oil. Finally, what statements have I given that were false? |
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alte Hexe Star Mario I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night Alive as you and me "But Joe you're ten years dead!" "I never died" said he "I never died!" said he Level: 99  Posts: 3995/5458 EXP: 9854489 For next: 145511 Since: 03-15-04 From: ... Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| "Two months later, the come over. If you're smart, what are they going to find? Nothing. _____________________ This is exactly what happened in Iraq. Hussein showed a small degree of common sense, and thought it might be a good idea to move his weapons. Also, why did he pick Iraq to help? Iraq had the largest chance to actually be a threat. If it was about oil, why not Arabia? Sure, it helped, but why Iraq over Arabia? Whichever had the largest threat is the best one to eliminate. " That part is wrong. There is, as of yet, no proof that Saddam moved his weapons. The facilities were either destroyed or abandoned during Gulf War I. As is Iraq being the bigger threat. Your Saudi "allies" fund terror. Saddam Hussein didn't. And what you believe about oil is wrong. Saudia Arabia has larger oil (and water) reserves than Iraq. And where is the oil? In these things called barrels, that are shipped to refineries and being burnt as fuels in cars. And I've never heard these "witnesses". You're not leaving the oil there, you contracted Haliburton to get it out of the ground. geeogree, as much as I love how the Canadian oil industry is taking off, the oil sands are hella expensive to refine. Too much energy without enough output. |
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Slay Level: 25 Posts: 143/339 EXP: 85592 For next: 4028 Since: 04-28-05 From: Threshold Between Heaven and Hell Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 1 day |
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The Vulkar says... That's what I was talking about when I said "attack." Your entire post following this point was attacking other people's opinions. You could have said, "Here's what I think." You chose to say, "So that's what you guys think, huh? Well, how about this?" You weren't simply voicing your opinion, you were trying to destroy the credibility of other people's. And I said you were misinformed, not false. |
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Arwon Zora Level: 35  Posts: 299/506 EXP: 278115 For next: 1821 Since: 03-15-04 From: Terra Australis Incognita Since last post: 5 hours Last activity: 10 min. |
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Originally posted by Vulkar What about those of us who accepted that he did have weapons he wasn't supposed to, and accepted that he was trying to dodge the sanctions and inspections as much as possible, but realised that THIS IS NATURALLY WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU IMPOSE SANCTIONS AND INSPECTIONS and didn't think the fact that he'd probably managed to hide a few things was a cause for war? Huh, Sparky, how about those who accepted that there were WMDs and still opposed the war? I'll admit it, I thought there were still some chemical weapons and maybe some biological remnants. I knew that the 1990s inspections regime had been effective but I figured there had to be some stuff left. He bluffed me like he did everyone else including his own generals. But I never accepted that any of this was a justifiable casus belli because I recognised that Iraq was extremely weak, that other states had far more weapons, that the invasion would be very destablising, and that everyone ws twisting things and making terribly facile arguments that didn't add up anywhere near enough to excuse an aggressive and politicised war of choice. But hey, thanks for playing. Where did you come up with the notion that if there were WMD the war had to be ok? It's entirely possible to have accepted that there were weapons and violations of the inspection regime without it following that WAR MUST BE GOOD. Really, stick to the emotional blackmail, you can't win with facts and logic. I'll help, I suggest you squawk about the human rights argument, squeal about Nazis and appeasement and mass graves and OMFG EVIL and whathaveyou. You've heard it all before, now SPOUT IT! Or if you must attempt to use facts and logic, at least use the one that might've been acceptable: the "correcting the mistakes of 1991 and recognising that our sanctions are killing people and making him stronger" argument that no-one seems to make because it requires both a nuanced grasp of history and an admission of fallability. (edited by Arwon on 06-03-05 10:48 PM) |
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geeogree Bloober Level: 34 Posts: 363/448 EXP: 231583 For next: 22068 Since: 03-16-04 From: Calgary, Canada Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 11 hours |
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| ziff: it is expensive to do.... but right now the price of oil is high enough to make it profitable.... not as much as pumping oil out of the middle east and transporting it places.... but it is still worth it.... if the war was for oil.... then why aren't prices going down? it's been a while... shouldn't the oil be here by now.... I for one would be pleased if the oil from Iraq came over here and helped push the price down.... I don't see why anyone here should care... it'll save you money.... isn't that what we all do.... abuse the 3rd world into making our lifestyle possible? directly or indirectly.... |
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windwaker Ball and Chain Trooper WHY ALL THE MAYONNAISE HATE Level: 61  Posts: 1648/1797 EXP: 1860597 For next: 15999 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 4 days Last activity: 6 days |
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Originally posted by geeogree There's a thing called PEOPLE DYING, YOU FUCKING HEARTLESS BASTARD. |
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Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101  Posts: 4327/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
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| There's also a thing called an extremeist. People die. It happens. |
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geeogree Bloober Level: 34 Posts: 364/448 EXP: 231583 For next: 22068 Since: 03-16-04 From: Calgary, Canada Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 11 hours |
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| windwaker: I doubt the US military has killed more people in Iraq than Sadam did.... | |||
drjayphd Beamos What's that spell? pimp! Level: 56  Posts: 1084/1477 EXP: 1387410 For next: 10766 Since: 03-15-04 From: CT Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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Originally posted by geeogree Ah yes, because we've only killed 80,000 (I don't know the exact figure and am certain it isn't THAT) to Saddam's 85,000 (and that number's gotta be higher), we're sparkling.  There's realism, and there's douchebaggery. |
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Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101 Posts: 4331/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
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| Don't forget the Kurds drjay. |
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alte Hexe Star Mario I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night Alive as you and me "But Joe you're ten years dead!" "I never died" said he "I never died!" said he Level: 99 Posts: 4071/5458 EXP: 9854489 For next: 145511 Since: 03-15-04 From: ... Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| Well, Legion, he's probably including the Kurdish people. | |||
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Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101 Posts: 4335/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
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| In that case, the number is too low. | |||
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alte Hexe Star Mario I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night Alive as you and me "But Joe you're ten years dead!" "I never died" said he "I never died!" said he Level: 99 Posts: 4072/5458 EXP: 9854489 For next: 145511 Since: 03-15-04 From: ... Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| The highest number I've heard on killings is 295'000 by Saddam (extreme pro-war folk, ergo it's wrong). The highest number of killings by the States is 500'000 (extreme anti-war, ergo wrong). I'm going to say that the US, at this point is the in the range of 100'000 and Saddam killed 90'000. Contrary to popular beliefs the Hussein regime didn't have deaths squads massacring people every day. The attacks on the Kurds that are so flaunted have been joined in on by good ol' American allies and enemies alike. Primarily Turkey and Iran...Both of whom dislike the Kurdish people. | |||
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geeogree Bloober Level: 34 Posts: 365/448 EXP: 231583 For next: 22068 Since: 03-16-04 From: Calgary, Canada Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 11 hours |
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| so you put Hussein's 20+ year dictatorship of Iraq at only about 90,000... sounds horribly low to me... |
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alte Hexe Star Mario I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night Alive as you and me "But Joe you're ten years dead!" "I never died" said he "I never died!" said he Level: 99 Posts: 4074/5458 EXP: 9854489 For next: 145511 Since: 03-15-04 From: ... Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| Not really. If you look at the culls of previous dictators, they're surprisingly low. Especially since Hussein's reign for the first 20 of those years was restricted by the US and the British so he would receive weapons while fighting Iran. 90'000 people is a ridiculously large number of people. Remember, even against the Kurds, he didn't really have any sort of implaced program of genocide. 90'000 is alot of people for 30 years of power. Especially when said dictator wasn't using an infrastructure geared towards extermination. |
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Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101 Posts: 4338/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
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| No matter how you try to justify it, and I really don't see why you are, a person like that is still horrible no matter how you slice it. | |||
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alte Hexe Star Mario I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night Alive as you and me "But Joe you're ten years dead!" "I never died" said he "I never died!" said he Level: 99 Posts: 4076/5458 EXP: 9854489 For next: 145511 Since: 03-15-04 From: ... Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| I'm not justifying it. | |||
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geeogree Bloober Level: 34 Posts: 366/448 EXP: 231583 For next: 22068 Since: 03-16-04 From: Calgary, Canada Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 11 hours |
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| nope... you are not.. but, you can't justify a war that took a person like that out of power either |
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drjayphd Beamos What's that spell? pimp! Level: 56 Posts: 1088/1477 EXP: 1387410 For next: 10766 Since: 03-15-04 From: CT Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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Originally posted by geeogree Are you saying what I think you mean? |
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| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - World Affairs / Debate - War in Iraq |
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