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1 user currently in Rom Hacking:  hukka |
| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - Rom Hacking - NEW!!! RED MARIO BROS 3 |
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NetSplit Koopa Level: 19 Posts: 43/117 EXP: 30378 For next: 5399 Since: 04-05-04 Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 1 hour |
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Originally posted by Bit-BladeYes, and fuck those users who use emulators which don't support palette files. Fuck those users who don't want to keep track of and swap palettes for your specific hack. Seriously, if you're planning on 'fucking' the NES limitations, why even bother with it being for NES in the first place? Hack something for SNES or another console, make a brand new game for PC instead of a console, or use a program like Zelda Classic. |
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Bit-Blade Pixel Artist Level: 34  Posts: 223/445 EXP: 229264 For next: 24387 Since: 03-16-04 Since last post: 2 days Last activity: 7 hours |
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| Oh don't be boring. Why bother sticking to a shitty palette when you don't really need to do so? Personally I find the NES's limitations a bit contricting at times but it's still a great system. Still... this is emulation. Things don't HAVE to be exactly the same as the nes, they can be better. Why even bother hackign the NES then? Because it's fun. One of the NES's biggest flaws was having the NES palette hard coded into the system itself, where as all systems after this have palettes that are determined by the games themselves. And about 'fucking over' the users, well, there's a quaint way around that. Quite quaint, actually. Release two versions of your hack, one with the nes palette and one with your own. That's what I did with my Cv3 hack. EDIT: I don't get you 'traditionalists'. What's the big freakin deal? The nes palette BLOWS. Don't give me that 'if you're going to do this then why don't you hack another system' bull crap, give me a legitmate reason why this is 'bad'. Is it rabid fanboy loyalty and are my actions offensive to you because of this? If that really is the case, then *shrugs* the easy solution to this is to not download the custom palette version hacks. (edited by Bit-Blade on 05-26-05 11:25 AM) |
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Googie Surarok Level: 39  Posts: 377/624 EXP: 380784 For next: 23987 Since: 03-15-04 From: Corona Queens New York Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 3 hours |
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Well, I suggested to Lags_80 to use BMF's recent nes palette on my board, since it's almost like the real Nes. His level designs can hold it's own in his hack. Now I have no excuse to work on my SMB3 hack.  |
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drjayphd Beamos What's that spell? pimp! Level: 56  Posts: 1066/1477 EXP: 1387410 For next: 10766 Since: 03-15-04 From: CT Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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Originally posted by Heian-794 (thump) I swore that was originally "MARIO"...  |
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dan Snap Dragon Level: 43  Posts: 595/782 EXP: 534516 For next: 30530 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 20 hours Last activity: 14 hours |
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Originally posted by Bit-Blade It's not just to do with tradition. It takes effort to locate a custom palette, and load it into an emulator. Especially if you keep things organised by putting your patched ROMs in with the rest of your ROMs. It's much quicker to just play another hack. (Which is generally what I do with custom palette hacks) Plus, as someone already stated, what do people do if their emulator doesn't support custom palettes? Emulators on hand-helds (e.g. PocketNES) are screwed when it comes to hacks like that. What about those users who actually play hacks on their NESes? (Admittedly, few people actually have the means to do so, but you are still excluding them) That's what I find unacceptable with custom palette hacks, and why I only ever play them like once, before the frustration of having to load a separate palette just to play a hack settles in. |
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Jaspile Red Koopa Level: 20  Posts: 101/133 EXP: 37467 For next: 4972 Since: 03-15-04 From: Paris, France Since last post: 20 hours Last activity: 11 hours |
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What can be the purpose of taking a 6 years old hack, changing few objects here and there and set all palettes to red tones ? --   --  Levels are very similar too. Now I'm just wondering if you really are that Luis who has made his smb3 hack in 1999... (but you seem to have (taken?) same name, e-mails, etc. so...) Anyway, my advices are to avoid that sort of hack : maybe a one-level color scheme can be nice in a hack, but the whole hack in red...no, seriously... Moreover, the little glitches such as the lines in the title screen sky or the waterfall can be very easily corrected with a tile editor and with the SMB3 TSA editor, so you should devote more time to your release, even if it's a demo (and especially if it has been made in less than a few hours...) (or maybe these gfx were made on purpose, but then we don't have the same gfx likings...) |
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Dish Spiny Level: 38 Posts: 409/596 EXP: 355646 For next: 14801 Since: 03-15-04 From: Disch Since last post: 18 days Last activity: 18 days |
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Originally posted by Bit-Blade Live with it. It's part of the NES.
The legitimate reason is it wouldn't work on an emulator which emulates properly -- nor would it work on the actual system. If you want it to be an NES game then you have to follow the rules set in place by the NES. The NES palette is not configurable -- in fact it doesn't even exist... colors are determined by luminence/hue rather than RGB literals (which is why no existing palette is 100% right). There may come a day when emus no longer use external palette files, but are able to actually simulate the same video signals used on the NES -- at which point this hack will be forever broken (should he decide to go with a custom palette). Getting a ROM to be an NES game -- and getting a ROM to be a 'made for emus' game are two different things. If the game doesn't run as desired on the real system, it's not an NES game (or at least it's a bugged NES game). A nifty example of this is that Sack of Flour Heart of Gold demo -- while it claims to be an NES game it crashes and burns on an NES -- so it's really a 'for emu use only' game. For emus to run these kind of games they have to actually emulate things wrong -- which (I hope I don't have to explain why) is a horrible thing. So while you may not like this answer... it really is legitimate, and it really does make a lot of sense. If you can't work within the limitations of the NES, choose another system to work with. Believe me, nobody understands the frustration of these limitations more than I -- which is why I stick to PC dev where there are far fewer restrictions. So bottom line -- if you don't mind your hack being broken but playable -- then go ahead and do the custom palette. But just know that in addition to turning off a large portion of your target audience, and making your hack more difficult to play, you will also be breaking your hack by isolating its use to only a handful of emus. Edit: thought of a nifty analogy, thought I'd mention it here: Making a custom palette and expecting emulators to support it is along the same lines as making your own custom super-powered mapper and expecting emlators to support it (granted it's not that severe, but it's the same idea). For lack of a better word, it's "cheating". Unless you actually construct the MMC hardware and get your game running on it, emulators wouldn't (and shouldn't) give your super-mapper hack the time of day. So until you or someone else can figure out a way to get an individual cart to change how the NES displays its colors (which I doubt is possible without modding the NES -- which would defeat the whole point anyway), a custom palette for your hack is bogus. External .pal file loading is a feature to enhance how games run. They are not the legs that a game should stand solely on. If the game cannot run without .pal file support, then the game is flawed. (edited by Disch on 05-27-05 04:39 AM) (edited by Disch on 05-27-05 06:05 AM) |
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lags_80 Koopa Level: 15  Posts: 32/102 EXP: 13954 For next: 2430 Since: 05-03-05 From: Mexico Since last post: 9 days Last activity: 5 hours |
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| Hi Jaspile i see that you found my first hack named SMB3 LA, i posted in the Acmlm website (acmlm.overclocked.org) It isn't the same hack, they're 2 differents projects even too young. And i know that i have to work more in this hack. Thanks |
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Bit-Blade Pixel Artist Level: 34 Posts: 224/445 EXP: 229264 For next: 24387 Since: 03-16-04 Since last post: 2 days Last activity: 7 hours |
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| You know... it is getting a bit frustrating that I have to keep repeating myself. My target audience will be fine. As I have said before, the easy way around this is to release TWO hacks, one with my palette and one with the original NES palette. I see what you are saying about emulation and functionality ona real NES, but I disagree. Because I am making this for an emulator there really isn't any reason not to. Fine, most people won't be bothered to go through the horrendous, trying effort of loading a custom palette. Just becase my hack would look awful with the nes palette if I switched it around like that to play on a real NES doesn't mean it would be broken. Hell, I bet you there's a way to hack the NES palette yourself, if one were so inclined and had the resources. "If you want it to be an NES game then you have to follow the rules set in place by the NES" It's going to be an NES game no matter what, Disch. Having a custom palette isn't automatically going to make a game start using SNES asm. It isn't going to change a damn thing about how the game runs or how the NES technically functions. The whole point I'm trying to make is that the static NES palette was a bad idea, and that in emulation you don't HAVE to abide by it. For the most part, I think you guys need to lighten up. You're making a much bigger deal out of this than necesary. Honestly... I wish there was an automatic way for this. What if, for example, an emulator was coded to automatically load a custom palette that bore the same file name as the rom itself? That would certainly be more expedient. And lags, I'm sorry for getting your thread off topic. |
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Dish Spiny Level: 38 Posts: 410/596 EXP: 355646 For next: 14801 Since: 03-15-04 From: Disch Since last post: 18 days Last activity: 18 days |
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Originally posted by Bit-Blade Fine. This seems like a good idea (two seperate hacks).
I used the term 'broken' loosly. "Functioning in a way other than intended or not functioning at all" is what I meant by it. If the game displays colors all wrong on the NES, then loosely, it's 'broken'.
There is no palette in the NES, so no you couldn't. The 'colors' you select are actually things like luminance and stuff (unsure the technical words for it), but it directly determines the analog video signal sent to the screen. $16 IS the color -- that color just happens to show up as red when output to a television [in the manner in which the NES outputs it]. The NES doesn't do any sort of RGB color lookup like emus do. So no -- while you might be able to change how the NES outputs the color and change the palette as a whole -- you couldn't really change each individual color. Not without redesigning a significant portion of the video system -- in which case it wouldn't really be an NES anymore -- something like this would require mods to the actual system and would not be able to be done through cartridge hardware.
You apparently don't know what you're talking about. There is far more to the NES than just which processor it uses. Sack of Flour does not run on the NES -- so I fail to see how you could call it an NES game. That makes no more sense than calling a Commodore 64 game an NES game (I mean they both use 6502, so what's the difference, right? =P)
Right -- and to make an NES game you must work with how the NES functions. That includes working with its color system. You can't just design your own because you don't like how the NES does it -- you have to work with what the NES gives you. Otherwise you're no longer working with the NES, you're working with some non-existant system you imagined (therefore, it's no longer an NES game)
When you realize that it isn't a palette it makes much more sense. Emulation impliments a workaround in which external .pal files are used -- but there may come a day which emulation gets to the point where it no longer needs pal files and it can actually output the same video signals as the NES (and emulate the weird screen distortion caused by color $0D and all the other nifty little quirks).
It's his option whether or not he wants to take the custom palette route. He may decide he wants to go with it -- and that's fine. But like I said -- he should know that he's breaking his game in the process.
The emu I made has this feature. =P But like I said -- that's an feature to enhace the quality -- it shouldn't be the legs on which the game stands on. (edited by Disch on 05-27-05 07:57 AM) |
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MathOnNapkins Math n' Hacks Level: 67  Posts: 1896/2189 EXP: 2495887 For next: 96985 Since: 03-18-04 From: Base Tourian Since last post: 1 hour Last activity: 32 min. |
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| OK DISCH WE GET THE POINT STOP REPEATING YOURSELF. | |||
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Bit-Blade Pixel Artist Level: 34 Posts: 225/445 EXP: 229264 For next: 24387 Since: 03-16-04 Since last post: 2 days Last activity: 7 hours |
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| I carried this over to a pm. It isn't fair to bombard another persons thread with irrelvant posts. It's an unimportant debate, anyway. In the end it really doesn't bloody matter what colors the nes is able to use. The games remain essentially the same in function. That said, I think this hack has promise but it could use a lot of polish. |
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lags_80 Koopa Level: 15 Posts: 33/102 EXP: 13954 For next: 2430 Since: 05-03-05 From: Mexico Since last post: 9 days Last activity: 5 hours |
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Thanks for all your comments. I' ve done a NEW UPDATE, i did a little changes. Check out  Download IPS |
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iamhiro1112 Armos Level: 35  Posts: 449/487 EXP: 259927 For next: 20009 Since: 03-27-04 From: sd Since last post: 18 days Last activity: 7 days |
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| If he took off the red then it is in danger of looking like any other hack out there. It seems like an ok hack. I tried out the virtual boy emulator so I don't really mind the red. In fact someone is remaking Zelda 1 on virtualboy. |
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| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - Rom Hacking - NEW!!! RED MARIO BROS 3 |
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