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| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - Programming - VB.NET Tutorials? |
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Teundusia Lantern Ghost Level: 41 Posts: 250/760 EXP: 449109 For next: 31036 Since: 07-31-04 Since last post: 15 hours Last activity: 14 hours |
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| Where can I find a free tutorial for VB.NET? I've tried google for a while and either get hard to understand tutorials or ones that don't teach you stuff from the basics to the more complex parts (instead it shows each different tutorial in alphabeticle order) | |||
loadingNOW Red Paragoomba Level: 14  Posts: 57/61 EXP: 10382 For next: 2689 Since: 07-15-04 From: Silent Hill Since last post: 136 days Last activity: 3 days |
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| the best .net site i know is this one: http://www.codeproject.com/ but I am not really a net expert. |
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Dish Spiny Level: 38 Posts: 387/596 EXP: 355646 For next: 14801 Since: 03-15-04 From: Disch Since last post: 18 days Last activity: 18 days |
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| My obligatory post to try and persuade you from staying THE HELL away from the wretch that is VB -- and pick up a real language like C/C++. C/C++ aren't as difficult as they're made out to be -- and in fact are easier than VB for many things. It's also far more capable. VB is slow, clunky, and Windows-only, whereas C/C++ can be applied to pretty much anything. It might be simpler to pick up VB and start making Windows programs right away -- but that's really the only edge VB has. Once you get serious you'll have to dive into the API anyway -- and as long as you're doing work in the API, you might as well be doing it in C (it's actually probably easier in C -- and it's certainly faster -- and it won't require an assload of extra files to make your program run). So anyway, yeah. Visual Basic is bad. Stay away. It's expecially bad for beginners because it teaches them backasswards concepts which don't apply to other languages -- so when you move to another language (and you WILL have to -- one day you'll see that VB just doesn't cut it) you'll have to make yourself forget a lot of the garbage VB taught you and re-learn a lot of things from scratch. C/C++ however, have been the base for many, MANY other languages like PHP and Java -- so learning C not only benefits you as a programmer in that its far more powerful/useful than VB, but it also gives you an "in" to all those other languages. |
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Teundusia Lantern Ghost Level: 41 Posts: 253/760 EXP: 449109 For next: 31036 Since: 07-31-04 Since last post: 15 hours Last activity: 14 hours |
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| Why does someone always have to make you change what you want to learn? I have Dev-C++ which I was using to learn C++ before but couldn't find a complete tutorial. I used cprogramming.com to learn and that helped me a bit, but only taught me a small amount. Now I have two questions: 1) Where can I get beginners VB.NET tutorials? 2) Where can I get a C++ tutorial to help me learn about programming games in C++? |
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Dish Spiny Level: 38 Posts: 388/596 EXP: 355646 For next: 14801 Since: 03-15-04 From: Disch Since last post: 18 days Last activity: 18 days |
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Originally posted by RYjet911 Just trying to save you time. If you're at all serious about programming, going through VB is an unnecessary and often counter productive step. Many of the things it teaches you will have to be 'unlearned' later when you move to another language. This is doubly true if you're interested in game development. VB just won't cut it. As for your quesitons: 1) Don't bother ;P Avoid VB like the plague. There's not a single person on Earth who's comfortable with C and says "I wish I learned VB" or "I should really learn VB". 2) http://www.gamedev.net/ has many articles addressing this subject. There's even a "for beginners" section linked in the "references" section at the top of the page -- although they focus more on DirectX and Windows specific stuff. If I were you I'd ignore those specific areas and just take the conceptual stuff. For that actual lib to use, I'd recommend SDL (http://www.libsdl.org) for Game development. Using it you can dodge DirectDraw and WinAPI nonsense. Plus it's much, MUCH easier to work with, and is multi-platform. If you want to get into 3D stuff, SDL also works with OpenGL. Neon Helium (http://nehe.gamedev.net) has some very, very good turotials which help you get familiar with OpenGL and 3D rendering. Note OpenGL can also be used for 2D stuff as well. But it's important to know basic programming concepts before you get into drawing, sound, and all the other stuff that goes into game development. The basics probably can be covered by the stuff on cprogramming.com (variables, arrays, pointers, and other fundamentals -- without understanding that stuff you won't be able to make anything). And of course people here will be willing to answer the occasional question. ^^ |
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Teundusia Lantern Ghost Level: 41 Posts: 254/760 EXP: 449109 For next: 31036 Since: 07-31-04 Since last post: 15 hours Last activity: 14 hours |
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| What's OpenGL and SDL? | |||
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Dish Spiny Level: 38 Posts: 389/596 EXP: 355646 For next: 14801 Since: 03-15-04 From: Disch Since last post: 18 days Last activity: 18 days |
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| SDL is a cross platform game development library which is built to work with several languages (including C/C++). Basically it's a series of functions you call from your program to do things like get Joypad input, output sound, and do drawing stuffs. It's an alternative to using DirectDraw or some other platform-specific libarary. OpenGL is a cross-platform 3D rendering library. It's the big alternative to Direct3D (which is Windows-only) |
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dan Snap Dragon Level: 43  Posts: 562/782 EXP: 534516 For next: 30530 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 20 hours Last activity: 14 hours |
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| VB .NET != VB VB .NET is more like C# with some Visual Basic keywords. |
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Dish Spiny Level: 38 Posts: 391/596 EXP: 355646 For next: 14801 Since: 03-15-04 From: Disch Since last post: 18 days Last activity: 18 days |
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| I stand by my statements. Learning VB (even VB.net) is a wasted/unnecessary/counter-productive step. | |||
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Graviteh Level: 31 Posts: 90/500 EXP: 165989 For next: 19374 Since: 03-27-05 From: The Internet Since last post: 42 days Last activity: 1 day |
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| Also, you might need your users do get .NET runtimes when you make something in .NET | |||
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marble_eater Newcomer Level: 4 Posts: 3/6 EXP: 196 For next: 83 Since: 05-07-05 Since last post: 179 days Last activity: 179 days |
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| At this point, most people have the .Net framework installed. VB.Net is an excellent RAD environment. You can whip up rich applications in no time, and it is much much much easier than in C++. The .Net framework provides much more functionality and ease of use than MFC. Since VB.Net uses JIT compilation, its performance can be comperable to that of c++ in certain circumstances. VB.Net is fully object oriented and interoperable with all .Net based assemblies (as well as your old ActiveX components). VB has also come a long way since VB6. Like I said, it is fully object oriented, and since it uses the .Net Framework, loads of functionality are made available to you. From what I hear it is easier to connect to and interact with databases. There is regular expressions, much better graphics capabilities, easier, faster, better file I/O, you can inherit and extend almost any existing class, etc., etc., etc. It has all the things you were missing in VB6. Built in common dialogs, rich text, tab controls, file and folder info classes, better registry editing, codecs to save images as gifs, jpegs, pngs, and bitmaps, common controls (list view, tree view, status bar), you can dynamically add event handlers. In other words, VB.Net has its place and C++ has its place. Don't use C++ just because someone doesn't think it's a "real" programming language. Many things can be programmed in a fraction of the time with VB as opposed to C++. If you are writing an incredibly complex 3-D high poly count game with complex pixel shaders, etc, etc, I would recommend C++. If you are going to write something simpler, VB.Net could be the way to go. Now there is even managed directx for 3D software programming with VB.Net and C#. The gap between what C++ and VB can do is closing, and in some areas, VB has come into the lead. |
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Dish Spiny Level: 38 Posts: 392/596 EXP: 355646 For next: 14801 Since: 03-15-04 From: Disch Since last post: 18 days Last activity: 18 days |
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Originally posted by marble_eater Not a chance. If it's over 35% I'd be very surpised. But most people certainly do NOT have the .net framework installed. Not everybody updates as soon as updates are available -- in fact most people don't. There are still a lot of people that are still happily running Win98SE without .net. You might be suprised how many. I wouldn't even have the .net framework installed if I didn't install VS.net a while back. I mean I certainly don't use any programs written with it (considering there aren't very many).
I really hate statements like this. I've gone through so many VB vs. C/C++ threads here and I have yet to hear any good examples of exactly how VB is easier (exception listed below). C syntax is about as simple and idiot-proof as it can get. Sure you can write confusing code with it, but generally it's very straightforward. Is it easier to make templated, carbon copy form programs in VB? yes Is it easier to make any other kind of program in VB? definatly not. As soon as you step off of dialogs/forms and move to anything else (in the case of RYjet here, Game Development). VB (even VB.net) will NOT be what you want to go with. Sure it's possible to make games -- but it certainly won't come out as nice, and it will be much harder to program. Care to guess how many commercial programs are written in VB? Zero! The reasons for it are obvious to anyone who's familiar with C/C++ -- they're just superior languages. VB was designed to make Windows form programs easier to make, whereas C/C++ weren't designed for any specific purpose. They were designed to be applied to anything. Game Development is just 1 example, it's hardly the only example. Like I said pretty much anything beyond the templated pushbutton, editfield forms will be easier to do in another language. That's really where VB's practicality stops (if it ever existed in the first place). As for the advantages of .net -- I'm personally not a fan, but all of them apply to C/C++ as well (.net is not VB specific, C/C++ can use it too). So discussion of how awesome .net is doesn't really have anything to do with choosing VB over C/C++. It has to do with using .net over SDL or the API or whatever other library you want to go with.
On a 3.2GHz machine -- sure. On us old fogeys who have had their comps for a while (most people), not on your life. Efficient C/C++ is blazing fast. On slower computers, the difference IS noticable when writing programs that take a decent amount of CPU power. On programs that don't it'll be instantaneous with either language - but that goes without saying. Considering RYjet wants to get into Game Development -- speed WILL be an issue. Games are the most CPU intensive programs around.
Object Orientation is a programming concept/style, not a language feature. Pretty much any language (hell, even 6502) can be object oriented if you code a certain way. Forced object orientation (like what Java does) is something I'll never understand. It's so impractical. Not everything calls for OOP and some things are better without it.
Sure -- slapping together pre-existing code to create a cookie cutter program is much faster to do in VB (that's pretty much what it was designed for). But when you actually want to build an independent program, C/C++ will get the job done just as fast or faster.
Haw. Like I said before --- people who are comfortable with C/C++ never go back to VB for anything other than the quick cookie-cutter app. There's just no reason to. C/C++ is not as difficult as it's made out to be, and it's certainly far more flexible than you're making VB out to be. Not to mention it has crossplatform libs up the wahzoo (FMod, SDL, wxWidgets, GDK+ just to name a few), making C/C++ programs able to run on FAR more plaforms than VB ever could. Speed, simplicitiy, ease of use, portability, outside support (in the form of libs, sample code, tutorials, etc). C/C++ just dominate the field. Most people that start with VB eventually have to leave it -- it just doesn't do the job. Going through it is just an unessecary step. Start with C/C++ rather than wasting time with VB before switching over. |
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marble_eater Newcomer Level: 4 Posts: 4/6 EXP: 196 For next: 83 Since: 05-07-05 Since last post: 179 days Last activity: 179 days |
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| Well now, that was really overdone and unnecessary. I am not pro-VB or pro C++, I am willing to acknoledge both their merits. But now I have to post a rediculous post so large that no one wants to read it in order to return the favor.... -"If it's over 35% I'd be very surpised." This is simply not my experience. -"C syntax is about as simple and idiot-proof as it can get" I have never met anyone who hasn't had oodles of compilation errors at some point that they couldn't figureout that eventually turned out to be a missing bracket or equals sign. Saying that C syntax is idiot proof is, to put it simply, rather idiotic. Although it is the most common style of syntax used, and my personal preference, and in terms of pure logic it is the simpliest, when human beings use it, it is the most confusing and prone to syntax error. -"Is it easier to make templated, carbon copy form programs in VB? yes Is it easier to make any other kind of program in VB? definatly not. " Do i make templated, carbon copy form programs in VB? No Doi make any other kind of program in VB? Absolutely -"Care to guess how many commercial programs are written in VB? Zero!" FALSE! Admittedly it is not common, but I have seen a few commercial and some very good non-commercial apps written in VB. But many corperations prefer their programmers to use VB when making programs for their own use because it is great for RAD. And in terms of VB.Net, once it gets compiled, its essentailly the same as most any other .Net language (except, perhaps, managed C++), and I've used commercial apps that use the .Net framework. -"they're just superior languages" Thats just ignorant. I'm not even going to discuss it. -"Considering RYjet wants to get into Game Development -- speed WILL be an issue" If he is targeting the .Net framework, and he is not into commercial game development, VB's JIT compiled speed will more than suffice, and with the introduction of Managed DirectX, making well performing, good looking graphics accelerated software is easier and faster than you might think. -"Sure -- slapping together pre-existing code to create a cookie cutter program is much faster to do in VB (that's pretty much what it was designed for)" Yes, VB is excellent for cookie cutter apps. I don't make cookie cutter apps, though, and guess what... I USE VB! The .Net framework encompasses so much functionality that and feature rich, highly functional app made with it is not only signifigantly easier to make, but looks and feels proffessional. It doesn't have that VB look and feel that VB6 apps had, and since the code is JIT compiled, you get incredible execution speed when you consider that you are using VB. VB has become very dynamic and pliable. -"C/C++ is not as difficult as it's made out to be, and it's certainly far more flexible than you're making VB out to be." Having (at least some) experience with both, I would have to disagree with that. Just how much VB.Net experience do you have? VB.Net is fully object oriented, and many C++ features previously unavailable in VB are, in one form or another, now available in VB. The biggest difference between VB and C++ is that in VB memory is managed for you (goodbye memory leaks) and pointers are hidden from you (I know how much C++ programmers love their pointers, but the lack of pointers does not hinder you as much as one might think). -"Speed, simplicitiy, ease of use, portability" Are you talking about VB or C++? ...simplicity is not what C is about. Ease of use? No. Portability? Well, what do you know? Target Mono with VB and you'll be running your VB apps on linux in no time! Speed? Well, thats what the good ol' JIT compiler is for. What do you know? Code optimized for YOUR processor! Not to mention, many C++ programmers target windows exclusively, in which cases, portability is not an issue. -"Most people that start with VB eventually have to leave it -- it just doesn't do the job." It does for me, and most VB programms I know have stuck with it. -"Start with C/C++ rather than wasting time with VB before switching over." Not planning on switching over. I don't know how many times this must be said. VB and C++ both have their purposes. Many projects would be difficult, if not impossible, with VB. But sometimes it would just be stupid to use C++. You need to use the right tool for the right job. Get off your knees and stop worshipping C++. It has it's merits. There are lots of things I like about C++. Most of the things I liked about C++ showed up in VB.Net though. That is probably why I haven't switched to C++. Before VB.Net came out (and still even now sometimes) there was still a time and a place for VB6. C++ programmers look down on VB, because the syntax is incredibly simple and to them simple syntax appearently equals simple-mindedness, but that doesn't make it VB less useful. It only makes it easier. C++ programmers look down on VB because it can not do as much. Lots of what it can do, however, it can do more simply in VB. If you disagree with that, don't tell me. Go tell another member of the church of C++. They, unlike me, will be glad to hear it. C++ programmers look down on VB because it does not perform as quickly. I have almost never run into a situation in my programming experience where VB did not suffice. That is not to say that such situations do not exist, and when they arise, by all means, USE C++! That's why it's there. C++ programmers look down on VB because they are arrogant and egotistical, which is quite the ironic disposition for a COMPUTER GEEK. When I give suggestions to programmers or potential programmers, I do NOT tell them that they should program VB because I program VB. I tell them what the pros and cons are of VB. Then, gasp! I let them decide. (Unbiased? What does that mean?) (edited by marble_eater on 05-06-05 12:21 PM) (edited by marble_eater on 05-06-05 12:22 PM) |
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Dish Spiny Level: 38 Posts: 393/596 EXP: 355646 For next: 14801 Since: 03-15-04 From: Disch Since last post: 18 days Last activity: 18 days |
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Originally posted by marble_eater The average computer user is not tech savvy. They buy a computer and they use whatever is on it. Until recently, .net did not come build pre installed into computers. Most people do not have a brand new computers -- most people aren't running Windows XP -- most people do not have .net installed. In certain circles, like say someone in the programming industry or someone with a corporate office job involving computers. Yeah -- they and probably everyone they know will have the .net framework installed. But that hardly is an example of the general population.
I said "as simple and idiot proof as it gets". Of course that doesn't mean 100% idiot proof. Beginners in any language will be plagued by compile errors at first. It's part of the learning process. Once the concepts are grasped the rest of the language falls into place -- and the way in which C operates just 'clicks'. The beauty of C is that it's very low level (for a high level language anyway), so the concepts it teaches are easily applied to any and all programming languages. This is especially true considering the myriad of language that are based on C (C++, Java, C#, PHP, etc). VB focuses more on abstracted concepts (since it's a level or two higher than C) which aren't as applicable to other languages. This is what I was referring to before when I said a lot of stuff learned from VB must be "unlearned" when you move from it.
That's not to say it can't be done. I'm saying it could be done as easy or easier in another language. And it could. VB was designed for a specific purpose -- C was not designed for anything specific, thus it's more easily adaptable.
I would love some examples (note I said games, not programs -- I'm sure there are more VB programs around). Could you link me to an info page or just give me the names of them so I can research them?
Since I'm not a professional programmer -- I couldn't say. I don't doubt you here though.
When a language can do anything another language can and much more, "superior" seems like the proper word to use to me.
But see... this is a .net argument, not a VB argument. You're saying "VB can do it", which I know it can. I'm saying "C does it better", which it does.
Then you're doing yourself a disservice. Seriously -- other languages can use the .Net framework and are much more powerful. Look into them. VB is the bottom of the barrel. I know VB CAN make these programs -- I'm saying other languages make them more easily and better.
Like I said while I'm not a fan of the .Net framework, I'm not debating it here. I'm saying VB should be avoided. That says nothing about .Net. Many many langauges, including C++, can use the .Net framework just as well as VB can.
That underlined portion basically sums it up -- VB is slower than other languages. You're impressed by the speed of JIT compiled VB, but really it probably just made VB's speed tolerable.
Granted, I don't have very much VB experience at all. But there's really no reason for me to get into it, C/C++ is superior (I know you don't like me saying that, but I don't know how else to describe it). Most VB code I've seen can be converted line-by-line to C/C++. There's nothing VB offers that can't be easily accomplished in C/C++ (aside from those cookie cutter apps). On the reverse there is loads upon loads that C/C++ can do that VB can't touch. PLUS C is faster.
Like I said before, OOP is a programming style/concept. Not a language feature. Pretty much any language can make OOP code.
So VB is less crappy than it was before. There's still lots to C/C++ that isn't in VB -- which is my point.
If you don't want to deal with memory management, use libs to manage it. C++ has plenty. If you don't want to use pointers, don't use them. Not having the OPTION to manage memory or use pointers is nothing but a hinderance, and another reason why VB isn't as good. You basically just listed two reasons NOT to use VB.
On the contrary, once you grasp the concept of pointers and understand how powerful they are to use... it's an incredible hinderance to no longer have access to them. C++ programmers don't love their pointers because it's the cool thing to do -- they love them because they're an incredible tool -- and any langauge lacking them severly suffers because of it. This is a rather abstract example -- but try making an NES emu without using pointers (pointers for like PRG/CHR banks and nametable mirroring modes). It will be a massive pain in the ass and will require a massive amount of unnecessary memory copying. Now I know this isn't exactly directly applicable to your average program -- but the kinds of concepts that are acquired after doing something like this REALLY shows how valuable pointers are. Afterwards you can find ways to use them all over -- and not just because you can, because it makes things easier/more efficient.
I was talking about C/C++ Simplicity in that the syntax is consistent, straightforward, easy to learn, and very logical. The thing about C is it's incredibly basic. The data types it provides are simple chars, shorts, longs, floats -- just raw memory storage. Even pointers are nothing more than integer variables in a different context. Everything in the language revolves around that very simple foundation. In fact it's SO simple, it provides everything you need. There's no limit to the number of complex data types you can build off of those most simplistic data types -- but they're not part of the C language. C keeps things simple. It keeps it minimal. Ease of Use, while interpretive, really depends on your understanding of programming fundamentals. If you grasp the most basic concepts of variables, arrays, pointers, etc, then it is very easy to apply these concepts in C. There are no abstract concepts above these (at least not in C, there may be in whatever libraries you're using). Portability:
Name one platform VB can run on that C can't. I'll save you some time: there aren't any. On the reverse there are plenty that C can run on that VB can't. C is more portable. Of course the portability of individual programs depends on which libraries you use. However the available C/C++ libraries can be used to build a program for any modern PC, and even some consoles.
As previously addressed -- that brings VB up to a tolerable speed. It still doesn't bring it up to par with C/C++ in this department.
That says nothing about the language -- which can target multiplatform. I could just as easily say most VB programmers target windows exclusively. The point is C/C++ can do it.
You and your friends have my condolences. The curse of VB has held you back.
If you can give me ONE example of a program that would be stupid to take up in C++, I'd love to hear it. Keep in mind you can use the .Net framework with C++. C++ gives you more control, it's faster, it's got a wide range of libraries available... it really is built to take on any task. There's nothing VB offers that can't be just as easily accomplished in C/C++, and there is SO much C/C++ offers that VB can't touch.
That's ridiculous. The C++ programmers that look down on VB do so more because it's slow, bloated, far more restrictive, and offers far less control over your program. Like I said, once you get comfortable with C/C++, there's absolutely no reason to use VB anymore (outside the cookie cutter apps VB does so well).
I'd love to see an example.
How fast is your computer? What kind of programs do you write? What's "fast enough" for you, might be painfully slow for someone else.
Haw. Yes that's why exactly. =P |
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marble_eater Newcomer Level: 4 Posts: 5/6 EXP: 196 For next: 83 Since: 05-07-05 Since last post: 179 days Last activity: 179 days |
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| Yeah, dude, I'm done. I'm not even up for reading your post (i.e. I didn't read it). Get your head out of your ass and realize that C++ is not the answer to life, the universe, and everything. The fact that it is lower level and can do more does not mean that VB is not a "real" programming language. Were that the case, I would be using C++. I don't have the energy to have a pointless debate responding to batches of twenty quotes. How about you give the original poster the facts (i.e. pros and cons to using C++ over VB, NOT YOUR OPINION AS TO WHICH LANGUAGE IS BETTER) and allow him to weigh and decide for himself. Do not respond to this, I will not be checking back. | |||
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Dish Spiny Level: 38 Posts: 394/596 EXP: 355646 For next: 14801 Since: 03-15-04 From: Disch Since last post: 18 days Last activity: 18 days |
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| Sorry I scared you off. I really wish you had read my last post because I think it got a lot of my points across quite well. "How about you give the original poster the facts (i.e. pros and cons to using C++ over VB, NOT YOUR OPINION AS TO WHICH LANGUAGE IS BETTER)" If it were a matter of opinion, I could understand your gripe. The bottom line is C++ is more powerful, more flexable, and not as difficult to learn as it's made out to be. Those are the pros. I have yet to hears cons other than "VB can do some things easier" -- of which several times I've requested examples and have not received. I've addressed the reasons why C++ would benefit him, specifically targetting game development, which he mentioned he has interest in. I'm not trying to shove C++ down his throat, I'm just trying to save him some time, because I'm sure that (for what he wants to do -- game development), VB will end up being more of a hinderance to him. Unfortunately, he can't really weigh them for himself until he's tried them. He'll have to dive somewhat blindly into one or the other -- I'm trying to guide him to the one that will make his future programming projects go more smoothly. I'm sorry you took my posts to be so personal and hostile. I get the feeling you were misunderstanding what I was saying a lot of the times (as I tried to point out in the previous post). I'm also sorry you made me out to have some sort of C++ fetish. I'm sorry you assumed I had a leetist attitude because I don't use VB. I'm sorry you think many C++ coders dislike VB just because of nonsensical leetist reasons -- and I'm sorry that you don't accept that there are real, legit reasons to dislike VB. I'm sorry you had to run away from the debate in a fit of frustration. Perhaps I'm not the one that needs to take his head out of his ass. [edited for typos] (edited by Disch on 05-06-05 02:16 PM) |
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Ramsus Octoballoon Level: 19 Posts: 60/162 EXP: 34651 For next: 1126 Since: 01-24-05 From: United States Since last post: 39 days Last activity: 71 days |
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| I'd rather wrestle alligators than use something with a syntax like VB (or AppleScript). Dim this, Dim that, it's all very cryptic to me. You see, I started out with C++, and that got me into a very object-oriented mindset. Then I learned C, and, by learning the true freedom of pointers, I earned my distaste for any language stricter than C, even C++. Finally, I've become addicted to C-like syntaxes. Now I only like to use C, Objective-C, Perl, Python, or PHP, depending on the task. And then I only use PHP, because it's everywhere and makes a good binding language. So in conclusion, the language you start with can have a really heavy influence on your "tastes" and methods as a programmer later on, as much so as the type of programming you do. If you really want to learn game programming, you'll want something flexible that lets you do low-level tasks easily and efficiently. If you think that language is going to be VB.NET, then use it. But don't think it'll be easier to step through VB.NET on your way to C++, because if anything, it really will be harder. It's like me trying to learn Lisp after years of C and C++. Lisp even represents a completely different programming model (functional bottom-up, as opposed to top-down object-oriented, or procedural/structural). I only tried for a few weeks, but I just couldn't wrap my head around any of it. Meanwhile, I could learn Java in a matter of days. And as a side note, C++ with SDL is really, really easy. I think it's one of the easiest ways to step into game programming these days. I never really did much game programming though. |
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loadingNOW Red Paragoomba Level: 14 Posts: 58/61 EXP: 10382 For next: 2689 Since: 07-15-04 From: Silent Hill Since last post: 136 days Last activity: 3 days |
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| it's really a matter of taste - i don't like .net much but it's not a bad way to code the occational gui tool quickly. i do that stuff in c but i don't bother with a gui in these cases. when coding something like that in c with you waste a lot of time on just the resource file correct linking load code etc. NO it's NOT hard to do but it takes time. This is why having an IDE with integraded form designers exist adding handlers to your code files - yes it's cooler to do it without them but you're more efficient with them. The concepts are not that different anyway. Maybe c# would be the real .net language tho - i think they only designed vb.net because there are so many vb6 programmers who don't want to learn anything new - but that didn't work well because these guys still use v6 (now that's something i would not recomment to learn but thats a different story) in any case the programming launguage you start with does not really matter - some universitys (even MIT!) start with scheme (some form of lisp) - which is slower than vb + really uncommon syntax. (but fun in a way even if the practical uses are somewhat limited) |
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Graviteh Level: 31 Posts: 130/500 EXP: 165989 For next: 19374 Since: 03-27-05 From: The Internet Since last post: 42 days Last activity: 1 day |
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| PHP is a scripting language, not a binding language. | |||
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Ramsus Octoballoon Level: 19 Posts: 62/162 EXP: 34651 For next: 1126 Since: 01-24-05 From: United States Since last post: 39 days Last activity: 71 days |
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| I know it's a scripting language. Thanks for stating common knowledge. You've really contributed something there! Does it make you feel all warm inside? What I meant by "binding language" was that it has a huge library of functions and classes available that makes it easy to create functional web applications by simply "binding" it all together with a few hundred lines of code. Oh, but God forbid I use a phrase that isn't technically correct, just because it describes something I want to try and communicate, right? While you're at it, try processing the phrase "makes a good" and tell me how it became "is" in the dark recesses of that "mind" of yours. Disclaimer : In the event that you are either crippled, younger than 13 years of age, clinically insane (and thus unable to reason), or have a severe learning disorder, I would like to apologize for the slightly offensive nature of my post. |
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