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| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - World Affairs / Debate - Why do you stay away from religion? |
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Tamarin Calanis We exist. Earth exists. The universe exists. Do we really need to know why? Level: 59 Posts: 496/1802 EXP: 1672751 For next: 377 Since: 07-12-04 From: The gas station on the corner... Since last post: 5 hours Last activity: 5 hours |
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| I'm not a religious person because there is no evidence of the existence of a 'higher power'. Similarly, there's no evidence (that I know of) that proves the lack of existence of a/many god(s), but I feel the burden of proof is on those that believe a god exists. I then looked at the people in this world. The greedy, the selfish, the warmongers. The poor, the chronically ill, the crippled. Would a kind and loving god allow this to continue? There were, of course, other factors that stemmed from people around me. If I were to be Christian, I'd be associated with the one thing I hate most about religion - the nutjobs that try to convert people, which were sadly running rampant where I used to live before I moved last year. Hell, I've even had kids my own age try to make me 'see the light of God'. If I were to follow a different religion, then I'd have to deal with most of my family being even more annoying than they already are, not to mention probably being the center of numerous family wars. These weren't deciding factors, but they did have a little impact on my choice. Lastly, I found it difficult to believe in something as illogical as using God as an explanation for all the mysteries of the world, which is essentially what I see most religions as. So, just some final opinions on the subject of religion. If you follow your religion (or lack thereof) and do not use it for bigotry, you have my respect. I wish people would stop saying that atheists have no morals (not said here, thankfully, but I've seen it and heard it elsewhere) And Dude Man sounds like something out of Megaman.  (edited by Grey Jedi Cheveyo on 05-01-05 06:39 AM) |
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Kefka Indefinitely Unbanned Level: 81 Posts: 3074/3392 EXP: 4826208 For next: 166641 Since: 03-15-04 From: Pomona, CALIFORNIA BABY! Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 4 hours |
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Originally posted by Grey Jedi Cheveyo Would ANYONE (including a kind, loving God) want a friggin Utopia? If you didn't have the poor, the ill, the greedy, the government, the corporations, capitalism, socialism, facism, communism, conservatism, liberalism, racism, homosexuality, heterosexuality, and RELIGION, wouldn't this world be pretty boring? We wouldn't be having anything to talk about in this topic if there was a perfect world. We wouldn't have to think at all. We would more or less be drones. Happy, smiling, idiotic drones, but drones. Actually, we wouldn't have emotions, would we? We would have no reason for them. We would be indifferent on everything because everyone would be on the same page. Frankly, even though it sounds horrid at first, I actually like problems in the world. It gives us something to deal with. Now, again, I don't necessarly endorse any religion, but I do think there is a higher being, only because I would hate to think that we came from nothing... but then again, SOMETHING had to come from nothing, so atheists could very well be right. |
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Vystrix Nexoth Level: 30 Posts: 309/348 EXP: 158678 For next: 7191 Since: 03-15-04 From: somewhere between anima and animus Since last post: 3 days Last activity: 2 days |
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| My conception of religions in general can be summed up with the following statement: "God is Santa Claus for adults." When our children grow up, we teach them of such things as Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny, and so on; we do this so they feel as though they understand the world, and that they have friends out there. We also teach them of such things as the Bogeyman, as a scare tactic to keep them in line when they're not inclined to listen to reason (being children and all). When they grow up and start to get a grasp on what the world is like, they are weaned from their fairy tales... they learn that it is not Santa Claus that puts the presents under the christmas tree, but rather their parents/siblings/etc; it is not the Tooth Fairy that exchanges their missing tooth for a coin, but their parents; that there is no Bogeyman waiting to eat them if they misbehave. They come to an understanding of how things work, since they're growing up and are more capable of rational thought. But there is one fairy tale that is usually not dispelled when they grow up. In fact, they are encouraged to cling to it, to not grow out of it, and then, when they have children of their own, the propogate this fairy tale. Unlike Santa Claus, or the Easter Bunny, or the Tooth Fairy, or the Bogeyman, whom children are eventually told do not exist, they are told that God does exist. It is such a simple yet profound tale, to which people cling so tenaciously: why, if I'm good to others, I'll get to live up in the sky with castles and mansions and no pain and worry and and and and... but if I'm bad I go to Hell for eternal torment! God is Santa Claus for adults. Satan is the Bogeyman for adults. That's my view of religion itself. The reason why I don't join them in believing it is, because, I know that that's not how the world works. I have no hope for a bright future, nor fear of miserable torment, after I die. I know that this, right here and now, is it; there's nothing after this life, because this is life. That must sound quite depressing to those who disagree with me, but I assure you it's not. Religious people exert considerable effort in using their life to prepare for the "next" life. We atheists are spared that effort.  Bottom line: I can't believe in God for the same reason an adult can't believe in Santa Claus. |
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alte Hexe Star Mario I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night Alive as you and me "But Joe you're ten years dead!" "I never died" said he "I never died!" said he Level: 99  Posts: 3727/5458 EXP: 9854489 For next: 145511 Since: 03-15-04 From: ... Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| So, how did religion START then? Just wondering. Because I guess SOMEONE would've had to teach those adults, based on your logic. | |||
Gavin Fuzzy Rhinoceruses don't play games. They fucking charge your ass. Level: 43  Posts: 660/799 EXP: 551711 For next: 13335 Since: 03-15-04 From: IL, USA Since last post: 13 hours Last activity: 13 hours |
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Originally posted by KefkaOriginally posted by Dude Man last i checked, the original teachings of the Bible are not meant to be flexible, Kefka. It seems so.. unholy, for lack of a better term, to play semantics with the alleged word of the god. I mean, the people who argue that the original implications of the wording of the bible were not meant to be exclusive and are not distinct, in my opinion, are only arguing out an inner battle within themselves: their cognitive dissonance between what they have always believed, possibly grown up believing, and what their own personal moral standards say to be true. "no no, when we said we would 'stone them to death', we meant 'tolerate and understand, and possibly later accept'". i mean come on. Either way the decision comes down, it doesn't bode well for the Bible. If the interpretation was correct, then that leaves a whole lot of people clinging to a religion they don't actually believe in. If the interpretation was incorrect, it just proves that you shouldn't trust a single word in the book, because it was likely just a political tool for shaping the populace into the "morally correct" view of those who composed it. You mention "Christians who are openly gay". That's some kind of twisted oxymoron. It's as if those people are too scared to leave their religion and have to mentally bend it's parameters just to fit under the same roof as everyone else. Do they think they can change their religion? And if so, what does that say about religion in the first place? Shouldn't religion be a constant rock, steady and uninfluenced by the cultural pendelum of the centuries?? Last i heard, God's law was supposed to be absolute, not a tool in a cultural war. If you change religion, that makes it something entirely unscared, unholy, and unmeaningful. which is why religion is bullshit. |
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Cruel Justice XD Level: 55  Posts: 839/1384 EXP: 1253266 For next: 60923 Since: 03-20-04 From: Darkwoods Penetentiary Since last post: 11 hours Last activity: 7 hours |
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| I agree with most of the points made above. Somewhat relating to Kefka and Nexoth's insights, God is the adult's Santa Clause but what can we look forward to? I really think there is a balance between physical and spiritual realities. Everything is interrelated and they all have a source but it's probably meant for us not to know. Somethings I think about when the power goes out in my house; the big bang made the universe, but what exactly made the big bang? No one will really know. | |||
windwaker Ball and Chain Trooper WHY ALL THE MAYONNAISE HATE Level: 61  Posts: 1474/1797 EXP: 1860597 For next: 15999 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 4 days Last activity: 6 days |
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| Shouldn't religion be a constant rock, steady and uninfluenced by the cultural pendelum of the centuries?? Last i heard, God's law was supposed to be absolute, not a tool in a cultural war. If you change religion, that makes it something entirely unscared, unholy, and unmeaningful. I must disagree. I don't think that the bible itself was supposed to be taken literally. It wasn't written by God, and that is where a lot of the Christian religion is flawed. They take everything so literally. You said that religion can't change because God's law is supposed to be absolute, yet what is God's law? I don't know, you don't know, nobody knows, because he didn't write the bible. |
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alte Hexe Star Mario I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night Alive as you and me "But Joe you're ten years dead!" "I never died" said he "I never died!" said he Level: 99 Posts: 3729/5458 EXP: 9854489 For next: 145511 Since: 03-15-04 From: ... Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| MODERN Christianity, exemplified by the hyper-cons that exist and say that God doesn't want this, that and the other thing seem to completely ignore the New Testament except when lying about their peace and love (towards everyone who isn't part of their little cult of the religion) and just hop straight at Leviticus. | |||
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Vystrix Nexoth Level: 30 Posts: 310/348 EXP: 158678 For next: 7191 Since: 03-15-04 From: somewhere between anima and animus Since last post: 3 days Last activity: 2 days |
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Originally posted by Emperor ZiffatineI offered no speculation about how it started, only on how it is perpetuated. |
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Dude Man Koopa Level: 18 Posts: 11/116 EXP: 29288 For next: 609 Since: 05-02-04 From: Wareham Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 7 hours |
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Originally posted by Emperor Ziffatine My idea is that religion started as a tool to explain things people back then could not explain. If you read the bible on how god created everything you'll notice a similarity to... yes that right. GREEK FOLK TALES. Why is the shy blue? Why is grass green? Why? Why? Why? So instead of tryting to figure out why this and why that, they simple said a powerful man in the sky that we can't see did it. So to answer your question, religion started to keep people from questioning things... |
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alte Hexe Star Mario I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night Alive as you and me "But Joe you're ten years dead!" "I never died" said he "I never died!" said he Level: 99 Posts: 3730/5458 EXP: 9854489 For next: 145511 Since: 03-15-04 From: ... Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| Well, interestingly...You're wrong! The majority of the Judeo-Christian mythos are based around early Babylonian and Egyptian myths. The Greek gods were visible to every man, and often had infighting. They exemplified imperfection! Although I agree with it beginning with people needing an explanation. |
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Tarale I'm not under the alfluence of incohol like some thinkle peop I am. It's just the drunker I sit here the longer I get.  Level: 73  Posts: 1751/2720 EXP: 3458036 For next: 27832 Since: 03-18-04 From: Adelaide, Australia Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| Rydain already said it. I can't believe in deities. I seem to lack the ability to suspend my disbelief and believe that there is a higher power or god watching over us. That tends to cross out a lot of religions for me, as well... a lot of them tend to have deities. |
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MathOnNapkins Math n' Hacks Level: 67  Posts: 1799/2189 EXP: 2495887 For next: 96985 Since: 03-18-04 From: Base Tourian Since last post: 1 hour Last activity: 32 min. |
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Originally posted by Emperor Ziffatine Greek gods could make themselves invisible, and take on any number of forms. In the same way you might interpret someone as being an incarnation of God ("Jesus at your door", and all that jazz). Furthermore, in mythology you are not guaranteed to recognize a god as a god, even if you see one. I fail to see how these things are fundamentally different. Men feared the Greek gods the same way you fear God. The only difference is that they are not conceptually perfect, as in the construction of a monotheistic all powerful God. But, on the other hand I think it is incorrect to say that they "exemplify imperfection." If you consider all the positive qualities among them, it adds up to something like all powerful, b/c their mythology often tries to explain how the world works in some elementary fashion. So... take some sort of union of powers, subtract off the negative qualities, voila. |
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alte Hexe Star Mario I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night Alive as you and me "But Joe you're ten years dead!" "I never died" said he "I never died!" said he Level: 99 Posts: 3734/5458 EXP: 9854489 For next: 145511 Since: 03-15-04 From: ... Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| No, not really. If you read, the Judeo-Christian god is based primarily on the untouchable entities of Egyptian, Middle-Near East and those sorts of myths. The comparison between the Greek gods is nothing really but nonsense that people spout. It is a boring and tired argument that I hear all too often. And them adding up to perfection? Their constant fighting was going to be the end of the world. Jez. The reason why the Mediterranean Graeco-Roman faith got so big was because the gods were relative to human life at the time, and could be seen as examples of what to do and what not to do. (edited by Emperor Ziffatine on 05-01-05 05:16 PM) |
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The Sage Of Time Blue Octorok Level: 12 Posts: 23/46 EXP: 7444 For next: 477 Since: 04-12-04 Since last post: 40 days Last activity: 13 min. |
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Originally posted by Grey Jedi Cheveyo My take on it has always been pretty simple. We are created with free will, to do as we wish and how we wish, to grow and create.. even destroy. Because we have such will, and ability, we are the dominating species of the planet, and so on and etc.. Basically what I am getting at is.. God - whether you believe in one or not, just stay with me here - would not intervene with our lives directly and prevent things like that.. Why? Because that's when the thin line between free will and controlled fate is overstepped. We can never be free if a higher deity steps in everytime people do something "wrong." It's a fact of life, we all do something "bad" at one point or another, albeit some people are mass murderers or worse, once a higher force steps in to deal with that, free will begins to have less meaning.. It's our nature to become dependant on things easily, (Computers, Automobiles, etc..) so once that started to happen, we'd lose much of what we are today.. Is that a bad thing? Maybe not.. But if you "do" believe in God, then you have to believe in an afterlife of some kind, rewarding to those who do good and all that. Which is where the forgiving and loving God comes in. See what I mean by all this? Of course, this is only my own personal view.. (edited by The Sage Of Time on 05-02-05 02:28 PM) (edited by The Sage Of Time on 05-02-05 02:30 PM) |
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Tamarin Calanis We exist. Earth exists. The universe exists. Do we really need to know why? Level: 59 Posts: 506/1802 EXP: 1672751 For next: 377 Since: 07-12-04 From: The gas station on the corner... Since last post: 5 hours Last activity: 5 hours |
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Originally posted by The Sage Of TimeAlright, you were making sense 'til we got here. Sure, it's rewarding to those who do good, but if we're talking about the Christian god, then we all know what happens to those who aren't so nice. 'Go directly to hell. Do not pass Go, do not collect $200.' Somehow he suddenly sounds a lot less forgiving. But hey, I'm not Christian, nor have I been for six years, so there's probably a major detail, explanation, or excuse here that I'm missing. =/ I regret that I must limit my comments to Christianity, however, as my knowledge of other religions is very limited. |
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Kefka Indefinitely Unbanned Level: 81 Posts: 3104/3392 EXP: 4826208 For next: 166641 Since: 03-15-04 From: Pomona, CALIFORNIA BABY! Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 4 hours |
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| Boy, lots of comments today... I suddenly have decided that Mormons are the only right religious peoples. And this has been decided because of... SOUTH PARK! TV tells me what to think more than religion, so it is all moot.  |
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The Sage Of Time Blue Octorok Level: 12 Posts: 24/46 EXP: 7444 For next: 477 Since: 04-12-04 Since last post: 40 days Last activity: 13 min. |
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Originally posted by Grey Jedi CheveyoOriginally posted by The Sage Of TimeAlright, you were making sense 'til we got here. Sure, it's rewarding to those who do good, but if we're talking about the Christian god, then we all know what happens to those who aren't so nice. 'Go directly to hell. Do not pass Go, do not collect $200.' Somehow he suddenly sounds a lot less forgiving. Well I meant, generally most relegions that involve a deity in the ways you were specifying.. (What caring God would allow this or this to happen, etc..) Also state that there is an afterlife, a reward for doing good or what have you. I wasn't specifically speaking in terms of the Christian faith. And I didn't say anything about Hell either, that is a whole other topic of it's own to me. But since you mentioned it, you're absolutely correct in that assumption. However, as I see it, it is not God who would send you to Hell. If you are evil (and I do mean evil, a heartless bastard) then you probably wouldn't give a damn about religion, forgiveness, or anything else. And then, there are relegions that even worship the Devil, you know. That's kinda where the grey area on Hell smoothes out. People have the choice in life who or what they serve, believe in, or do. You don't even have to believe in a all knowing deity to be forgiven by such, you just have to not be an evil bastard. Simple eh? As I see it, people comdemn themselves, sort of. All of this is just picking at logic to make sense of things, I don't expect to change anyones mind one way or another with my personal opinions, by the way. Just me thinking out loud. (edited by The Sage Of Time on 05-02-05 07:31 PM) |
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Kitten Yiffer Purple wand Furry moderator Vivent l'exp����¯�¿�½������©rience de signalisation d'amusement, ou bien ! Level: 135 Posts: 9562/11162 EXP: 28824106 For next: 510899 Since: 03-15-04 From: Sweden Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 4 min. |
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| I don't try to deny or confirm a god nor think it's possible currently either way. So, I guess i'm agnostic. Even if i'm a member of the Swedish church for some reason... All relgion I follow isn't really a relgion, but more of some moralistic goals I setup for myself. Many are based off christinaity, but I never really could understand why certain things isn't allowed.' The bible contradicts itself at parts, but then it's written by many many people. And I do think it actually contains both fictional stories and real stories. Thought it's hard to prove which stories that really have happened after 2000-4000 years. I don't mind any relgion, as long they let me be... |
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Ran-chan Moldorm eek, when are they going to stop growing... Level: 143  Posts: 9380/12781 EXP: 35293588 For next: 538220 Since: 03-15-04 From: Nerima District, Tokyo - Japan Since last post: 12 hours Last activity: 12 hours |
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Originally posted by Kitty Jedi It (edited by Fettster on 05-03-05 01:47 AM) |
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