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1 user currently in Rom Hacking:  hukka |
| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - Rom Hacking - Disable emulator savestates in a hack? |
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would disabled savestates increase or decrease your motivation to play a game?| increase |
10.7%, 3 votes | decrease |
89.3%, 25 votes | Multi-voting is disabled.
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d4s Panser Level: 29  Posts: 166/325 EXP: 142151 For next: 5734 Since: 03-23-04 Since last post: 13 days Last activity: 1 day |
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| question for you: for my upcoming breath of fire 2 hack/translation, ive coded a small routine that can freeze or reset the game every time it detects that a savestate was loaded. i made this cause i want to prevent people cheating their way through the game. but after implemeting it, im unsure if this would actually improve the gameplay or annoy the user. i also thought about not resetting the game but renaming the player to "cheater" or something like that once a savestate is loaded. what do you think? (edited by d4s on 04-12-05 01:38 AM) |
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Kitten Yiffer Purple wand Furry moderator Vivent l'exp����¯�¿�½������©rience de signalisation d'amusement, ou bien ! Level: 135 Posts: 9282/11162 EXP: 28824106 For next: 510899 Since: 03-15-04 From: Sweden Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 4 min. |
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| It would certainly annoy me, and I don't use savestates that often either. I just use them whenever I have to do something else, not to redo something severeal times. :/ | |||
Geiger Buster Beetle Level: 34  Posts: 357/460 EXP: 241080 For next: 12571 Since: 03-15-04 From: Indianapolis, IN, USA Since last post: 6 hours Last activity: 6 hours |
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| It is not really up to you to dictate in what manner someone plays a game. Besides, if people really want to cheat, there is very little you will be able to do to stop them. Actually, I find it a little hard to believe you have managed to code such a routine. If an emulator is performing a state load properly, there is no way the game should ever know. ---T.Geiger |
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d4s Panser Level: 29 Posts: 167/325 EXP: 142151 For next: 5734 Since: 03-23-04 Since last post: 13 days Last activity: 1 day |
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Originally posted by Geiger yeah, thats another point, theres no way to make it absolutely cheatproof. it just sounded like a good idea at first glance. oh well, i think i'll get rid of it. you find that hard to believe? its very simple, actually. if you think about it for a moment, you'll notice that savestates restore all the internal ram, but they dont restore the sram on the cart. i used that to my advantage and implemented 2 counters in sram and wram that are incremented and checked each frame. if they dont match, a savestate must have been loaded. easiest solutions are the best sometimes.  |
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Dish Spiny Level: 38 Posts: 336/596 EXP: 355646 For next: 14801 Since: 03-15-04 From: Disch Since last post: 18 days Last activity: 18 days |
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Originally posted by Geiger If they don't, they certainly should. They would have to on the NES anyway -- so many games use cartridge RAM for normal game stuff. Savestates are supposed to be a complete snapshot of the game's state -- if it only snapshots half of it what's the point?  But anyway, I'd say it's up the user whether or not they want to abuse savestates. Putting in a feature like this would completely ruin the game for people like me that use savestates legitimately (save to quit when I feel like and pick back up whenever I get back in the mood without having to trek back to a save point) (edited by Disch on 04-12-05 04:35 AM) |
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||bass Programmer Admin Level: 44  Posts: 309/817 EXP: 570813 For next: 40472 Since: 03-15-04 From: Salem, Connecticut Since last post: 26 days Last activity: 11 days |
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| I wouldn't particularly care for two reasons. 1: I think recent zsnes wip's DO restore the sram. 2: If they didn't it would take about 10 minutes to code. Don't bother using your routine, its pointless. The moment you did, you'd find 3 modified emulators and 10 sets to patch codes released all from different people. |
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TheCube Rat Level: 16  Posts: 31/82 EXP: 17450 For next: 2806 Since: 04-29-04 From: Denver, Uganda Since last post: 57 days Last activity: 11 hours |
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| Completely ignoring the technical reasons why this is not a good idea, I think it's not a good idea. I do, however, like the idea of renaming the player to "Cheater" or something. Reminds me of Link's Awakening where you get your name changed to "Thief" if you steal stuff. |
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Geiger Buster Beetle Level: 34 Posts: 359/460 EXP: 241080 For next: 12571 Since: 03-15-04 From: Indianapolis, IN, USA Since last post: 6 hours Last activity: 6 hours |
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| if you think about it for a moment, you'll notice that savestates restore all the internal ram, but they dont restore the sram on the cart. ZSNES does. In fact, I lost a whole day's worth of gameplay thanks to that. ---T.Geiger |
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iamhiro1112 Armos Level: 35  Posts: 373/487 EXP: 259927 For next: 20009 Since: 03-27-04 From: sd Since last post: 18 days Last activity: 7 days |
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| Ya, why not go for the rename character routinue. And you ought to give people headsup what happens if you do use a savestate cause they might be a little peeved if they are hours into the game and then use their first savestate. | |||
Setzer Popo Level: 36  Posts: 175/532 EXP: 290182 For next: 17928 Since: 04-22-04 From: Not Florida. because I'm going to sink it. Since last post: 5 hours Last activity: 48 min. |
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| meh; Did it occour to any of you that some people don't use savestates to cheat; but use them as a quick save so when they quit they don't have to go through all the intro's and title screens and options and shit when they first load up a game? I know it would certainly make me not want to play. | |||
FloBo Koopa Level: 17  Posts: 41/101 EXP: 20723 For next: 4020 Since: 09-11-04 Since last post: 3 days Last activity: 13 hours |
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| Just skip this idea, d4s. If someone wants to cheat his way throug a game, it's just up to him. I personally can't see the advantage of cheating cause what are you playing for then?! Anyway, renaming him as a cheater would be quite funny... but that's just my tiny opinion...^^ |
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Xkeeper 2.0 Hammer Brother Again... :P Level: 49  Posts: 346/1091 EXP: 880818 For next: 3065 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 5 hours Last activity: 3 hours |
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Originally posted by Skiffles Exactly my point... When I play SMB3 on an emulator, if I want to do something else I do a quick savestate so I don't have to play the whole game again. =\ |
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d4s Panser Level: 29 Posts: 168/325 EXP: 142151 For next: 5734 Since: 03-23-04 Since last post: 13 days Last activity: 1 day |
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| do recent zsnes versions merge zst and srm files? i admit that i havent downloaded a new version for ages. :> this player-renaming sounds quite funny, but it may be a bit too hard if i think about it. theres a hidden record-room in the game. maybe i'll include that there. btw, i updated the project status page, check it out here: http://bof2.blogspot.com/ (edited by d4s on 04-12-05 10:28 AM) |
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||bass Programmer Admin Level: 44 Posts: 311/817 EXP: 570813 For next: 40472 Since: 03-15-04 From: Salem, Connecticut Since last post: 26 days Last activity: 11 days |
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Originally posted by d4sThey havent been merged, but if you load a savestate, the srm gets overriden with the one in the savestate, making the anti-savestate routine useless. |
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Xkeeper The required libraries have not been defined. Level: NAN  Posts: -2008/-863 EXP: NAN For next: 0 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: -753366 sec. |
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| The bootloader hurts my eyes. Argghg. Also, last I checked (1.40) I tried loading a savestate that was a lot farther behind than my last save, so I restarted the game and the original SRAM was still there... Maybe it just depends on the game (or was added in a more recent version), I don't know... still kind of wierd. |
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MathOnNapkins Math n' Hacks Level: 67  Posts: 1741/2189 EXP: 2495887 For next: 96985 Since: 03-18-04 From: Base Tourian Since last post: 1 hour Last activity: 32 min. |
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| Savestates, while they can be used for cheating, I usually use for convenience. So... no way. Games are meant to be as challenging as the user makes them. Some people cheat for enjoyment, and then intend to play for challenge later. | |||
dan Snap Dragon Level: 43  Posts: 519/782 EXP: 534516 For next: 30530 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 20 hours Last activity: 14 hours |
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I use savestates all the time, so obviously I voted no.  I remember seeing a translators website where the translator was going to make people use an emulator he wrote to play his translation, all because he didn't want his translation to end up in the Good list. That was quite over the top. |
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DahrkDaiz Red Super Koopa  Acmlm's Mosts 2005 Best ROM Hacker Level: 45  Posts: 604/885 EXP: 643520 For next: 16644 Since: 03-15-04 From: K-Town Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 4 hours |
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| I just want to know exactly how it's possible for the game to detect whether a savestate has been loaded or not. The game has no knowledge of the emulator's existance since it's emulating the system, so loading a savestate is like waking up from a coma, nothing ever happened between the time it went down and woke back up, according to the game. | |||
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d4s Panser Level: 29 Posts: 170/325 EXP: 142151 For next: 5734 Since: 03-23-04 Since last post: 13 days Last activity: 1 day |
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Originally posted by DahrkDaiz i described it in detail in one of my above posts. in a nutshell, the trick is that no snes emulator (apart from the most recent zsnes version, or so it seems) will restore sram upon savestate loading. Originally posted by dan really, whos that? gid doesnt like goodsnes, but he didnt write an emulator, so youre probably talking about byuu. and dudes, you got me wrong for sure if you think i want to force everybody to play the way i want them to so take it easy, will ya. its an idea amongst many others i consider including in the project. some will make it to the final patch, some wont. thanks for the feedback, anyway. (edited by d4s on 04-13-05 01:31 AM) |
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BMF98567 BLACK HAS BUILT A SILLY DICE-MAZE! GO! Current list of BURNING FURY >8( recipients: - Yiffy Kitten (x2) - Xkeeper Level: 53  Posts: 771/1261 EXP: 1094149 For next: 62970 Since: 03-15-04 From: Blobaria Special Move: Rising Meatloaf Backhand Combo Since last post: 21 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
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| The only way you're going to prevent cheating is to hack the game so it can ONLY be played on real SNES hardware (look for timing glitches or register values that are only present in emulators?). Of course, you'd be excluding nearly everyone that would want to play the hack, and such hardware checks can always be reversed, unless you heaily intertwine them with the original game code in various undetectable ways... |
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| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - Rom Hacking - Disable emulator savestates in a hack? |
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