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| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - World Affairs / Debate - The Oil Crash |
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What do you think the crisis will come to?| There will never be a global energy crisis. |
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0.0%, 0 vote | A crisis will happen but its effects will be minor. |
8.3%, 2 votes | A crisis will happen and it will moderately reshape civilization. |
16.7%, 4 votes | A crisis will happen and it will drastically reshape civilization. |
45.8%, 11 votes | A crisis will happen and it will destroy civilization. |
12.5%, 3 votes | Other (Please explain) |
16.7%, 4 votes | Multi-voting is disabled.
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Reid Hardhat Beetle Level 50 Bitches. Level: 37  Posts: 426/558 EXP: 322182 For next: 16071 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 6 days Last activity: 2 hours |
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15 years ago almost no theories of hybrid cars existed. Today we have them. ( Not very many but we do have them.) So in 15 years when oil is running low there will be better solar cells and a new major form of energy ( be it water, wind, fire, or the sun.) I dunno but I don't think it will destroy the world. Or if it destroys most of the world we know which place that will be left becuase they are so power hungry...USA.  |
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Kitten Yiffer Purple wand Furry moderator Vivent l'exp����¯�¿�½������©rience de signalisation d'amusement, ou bien ! Level: 135 Posts: 8909/11162 EXP: 28824106 For next: 510899 Since: 03-15-04 From: Sweden Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 4 min. |
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| USA is one of the countries that probably get affected the most, Sweden aren't as dependant on oil (or fossil fuels in general) as USA. But if a econmic collapse happens in USA then Sweden will also be affected by it. 3.6 % of our electricity comes from fossil fuels, and i'm quite sure it's mostly coal... which is dirty but we have quite alot of it. |
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neotransotaku Baby Mario 戻れたら、 誰も気が付く Level: 87 Posts: 2811/4016 EXP: 6220548 For next: 172226 Since: 03-15-04 From: Outside of Time/Space Since last post: 11 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
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| The U.S. depends on the outside for about 60% for it's energy needs. So, in theory, the U.S. will probably suffer, just slightly better than what other people have mentioned. As for my thoughts, a crisis will ensue but countries will still remain the powers they are today. The U.S. I think will lead the way to the next generation of power since they will be the ones to do something about it first since it has the resources necessary to make changes. I'm not sure if the EU or other industrialized nations will adapt as fast but they will be fine. |
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Grey the Stampede Don't mess with powers you don't understand. And yes. That means donuts. Level: 82  Posts: 2048/3770 EXP: 5192909 For next: 16318 Since: 06-17-04 From: Kingston, RI, USA, Earth Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
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| Solar (both photovoltaic and steam production), Nuclear, Wind, and Hydrogen are where we need to place our focus now. I am especially pro-Nuclear. Already we've been discovering (even with our minimal research and fear of nuclear power) ways to re-refine the nuclear waste that's been plaguing mines in Nevada into even more power, and if someone just had the guts to experiment with the power of the atom, we'd probably be able to solve our energy crisis with nuclear power alone. Of course, there is the fear of a meltdown factor, so I stand against nuclear energy along with every other NIMBY person out there who doesn't want to wake up to find a nuclear plant towering over their town. I am also extremely pro-Hydrogen and pro-Solar. Solar power is becoming cheaper by the day, and it may very well become perfectly easy to wield. Buick just made their first totally hydrogen powered prototype car, and it gets from 0-60 in about 20 seconds. It's every bit as useful as a normal car, and it's only a prototype! Obviously, good things are on the way if we continue to focus on efficiency and ease of production, now that we've got the main points down. The only thing I don't see us using efficiently is Wind power. It requires WAY too much space, and unfortunately we capitalist pig-dogs enjoy our privatized golf courses. |
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||bass Programmer Admin Level: 44  Posts: 300/817 EXP: 570813 For next: 40472 Since: 03-15-04 From: Salem, Connecticut Since last post: 26 days Last activity: 11 days |
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Originally posted by GreySorry for the lack of responce from me (and the bump) but I was in Italy. Anyway... We can't rely entirely on nuclear power, there is simply not enough uranium and plutonium to cover the entire world's energy needs for more then a few years. Hydrogen fuel cells wont solve the problem because they require platinum to build, and using fuel cells to power EVERYTHING will quickly exhaust our global supply of platinum. Wind/solar are too intermitent to power any wide-scale infrastructure. |
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Arwon Zora Level: 35  Posts: 270/506 EXP: 278115 For next: 1821 Since: 03-15-04 From: Terra Australis Incognita Since last post: 5 hours Last activity: 10 min. |
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Originally posted by HGanon The potential crisis IS the rising prices. Oil isn't going to just disappear overnight, it's going to go through an extended period of spiraling prices. Think 1973 gas crisis, but PERMANENT. The impacts of super-big rises in oil prices will be felt everywhere, every area of the economy, really. It is not just with fuel for vehicles, but also, for example, lubricants, and especially plastics. We're talking massively rising food prices (transport, fertilizer, ), and all sorts of things, on top of the problems of ever-scarcer energy resource, and also throw in the associated social turmoil that usually comes with economic crisises, too. I have no idea how bad things might or might not get, but I just wanted to point out that the problem here isn't just "oil running out" but is much more about "oil getting really fucking expensive quite fast, and having all sorts of unforseen impacts." |
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cowsruleusall Red Paragoomba Level: 11  Posts: 11/50 EXP: 5415 For next: 570 Since: 03-12-05 From: Previously North York, ON Since last post: 41 days Last activity: 29 days |
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| Here in the Southwest, gas prices have shot from $1.60 to $2.49 over the course of one year. However, driving west on Interstate 10, the number of massive solar panel arrays and electric windmill farms have skyrocketed in such great numbers that now, during most of the drive, all I see are solar panels and windmills. In fact, I even saw what appeared to be (I'm not sure, because I was half asleep) a large number of windmills with solar panel coatings. This seems to be a good sighn and could also help slow down the gas cost spiral, but we need large, fairly permanent sources of energy. Why not tap solar wind? There's tons of hydrogen streaming off the sun. Couldn't someone create a hydrogen energy source that doesn't require our limited sources of platium? Also, I know absolutely nothing about geothermal energy, but why isn't that used much outside of Iceland (I think it's Iceland, but I don't know anything about geothermal energy or the countries that use it). It seems to me that there are a great many alternative energy sources, but that everyone in power ignores them. | |||
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Steak Zora Level: 35  Posts: 412/507 EXP: 278751 For next: 1185 Since: 03-16-04 From: Ohio University Since last post: 195 days Last activity: 195 days |
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| Something to remember...we're not gonna run out oil, just the stuff we can get easily. 75% to 90% of every oil field is economically unretrievable. Sure, we could go down there, dig up the rocks, bring 'em to the surface, bake the rocks so that the oil comes out, but man...very expensive process. One of m' profs used to work for a major oil company. He informed us that all the refineries around the nation are running at near maximum capicity, since they're not building more (except, maybe, to replace irrepairable ones). One of those breaks down, gas prices jump up 'till it's fixed. The trouble with refineries is that crude oil is, well, crude. It's a mixture of a friggin' ton of different stuff...and the amount of x-to-y, etc., isn't the same in any two oil fields. Gotta use different refineries for each one. I haven't worked for an oil company...I can't confirm any of this...nonetheless, I wouldn't be too surprised by any of it. Business ethics aren't. |
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alte Hexe Star Mario I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night Alive as you and me "But Joe you're ten years dead!" "I never died" said he "I never died!" said he Level: 99  Posts: 3542/5458 EXP: 9854489 For next: 145511 Since: 03-15-04 From: ... Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| Steak, you would know a little bit more about this than I would. I heard that there was a process that is fairly popular in the American South that is called "open burn" where the products of the crude that have to be extracted to make gasoline or jet fuel are basically released into the air across of an igniter to get rid of them. I've heard lots of stories about this from oil workers who only drilled, didn't do the science. But here in Canada, we're reaching $1/litre. So Americans have nothing to cry about  . I'm saying that the only way to alleviate this huge stress effectively is to gradually ween ourselves off of personal transportation and go to public transport. More city busses, more rail lines, more things that carry lots of people. It isn't as efficient as it would be in places like Europe or Japan, where things are toight togetha and the nations are generally smaller than any province in Canada  But, I imagine that we could just find new ways of implimenting these. City planning is the future, because soon we're going to need all of the farm land we can get to support a booming population among other things  |
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Steak Zora Level: 35 Posts: 413/507 EXP: 278751 For next: 1185 Since: 03-16-04 From: Ohio University Since last post: 195 days Last activity: 195 days |
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| I haven't taken Petrology yet...I don't know what all they do to refine the stuff. Somehow I would be surprised to see that happen. There is an oil refinery about 30-40 minutes away from here, west of Belpre, where I've noticed they have a flame coming out of a pipe. I think they burn off unneeded/waste gases there. Speaking of booming populations...we're supposed to cap out at around 10 billion somewhere in the not-too-distant future, like sometime in 2020-2040. Seems a bit much, I think. |
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Grey the Stampede Don't mess with powers you don't understand. And yes. That means donuts. Level: 82 Posts: 2118/3770 EXP: 5192909 For next: 16318 Since: 06-17-04 From: Kingston, RI, USA, Earth Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
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| Along with our booming population will come booming technological advances. I forget the exact name of the person who devised this theory, but it's been projected that our rate of technological growth is exponential. As we get more and more complex, we can use the complexity of our technology to uncover even more complex technology. This same principle can be applied to our energy research. This one goes to ||bass especially. Wind powered fans can get going at winds as low as 2 or 3 miles per hour. They're extremely sensetive, I don't think they're intermittent enough to be consideered entirely useless, especially since there are places in the world where the wind blows literally all the time. I'm not as in support of Wind power as I am of other sources, but it IS a solution. The wind can blow at night. The sun doesn't shine at night. As for nuclear power, we haven't used a significant amount of our nuclear resources yet, and if we were to advance it to the point where a large amount of energy could be harnessed from a small amount of matter, and NOT lost, we'd have enough nuclear resources to last us at least 100 years. Most of our nuclear waste is still useful, all of that junk under Nevada is still radioactive and still has energy in it.it's like I said, if we had the guts to push nuclear development further it could become the most efficient energy source we have. Hydrogen... I didn't know you needed platinum for it. That's new information. That puts me at a bit of a standstill here. However, considering the average hybrid car goes for about USD $20,000, I'm guessing that the platinum used in it is such a miniscule amount that it doesn't chip away at our resources. If we really did have to use an insane amount of refined and energy-efficient platinum, then wouldn't the car cost a little bit more than the high-but-not-too-high price it has now? |
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||bass Programmer Admin Level: 44 Posts: 313/817 EXP: 570813 For next: 40472 Since: 03-15-04 From: Salem, Connecticut Since last post: 26 days Last activity: 11 days |
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Originally posted by GreySource? Originally posted by GreyI think you're confusing hybrid cars and hydrogen powered cars. Secondly, I don't know where people get the idea that hydrogen is somehow this incredible source of power. In the hydrogen fuel cell concept, hydrogen acts as an energy CARRIER, not an energy SOURCE. |
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Grey the Stampede Don't mess with powers you don't understand. And yes. That means donuts. Level: 82 Posts: 2142/3770 EXP: 5192909 For next: 16318 Since: 06-17-04 From: Kingston, RI, USA, Earth Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
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I can't find the source for that claim, as far as the 100 years of nuclear energy goes... And I guess you're right about Nuclear in general, considering our population grows at an exponential rate. It's unrealistic to believe that one energy source could solve all of our problems  . But the fact that the nuclear waste we've stowed before is still useable in a refined form still stands.As for hybrid/hydrogen cars, my main conclusion from that was from my science teacher. He has described hybrid cars to us before, and only mentioned hydrogen acting as a fuel carrier once or twice, just stating that the cars ran on water. I know this isn't true, if they ran on water they'd never need gasoline. However, hydrogen powered cars literally are cars that run on water, right? That's what I'm thinking of. Exactly how do hydrogen fuel cells work? |
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alte Hexe Star Mario I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night Alive as you and me "But Joe you're ten years dead!" "I never died" said he "I never died!" said he Level: 99 Posts: 3623/5458 EXP: 9854489 For next: 145511 Since: 03-15-04 From: ... Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| Depends on who you are going towards. Some of them are used like long term storage batteries. Others break the hydrogen gas down for combustion purposes. It combusts, and the by-product is water. | |||
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Sandy53215 Acmlm (10:55:31 PM): they're having fun for the first time in so long Level: 47  Posts: 466/948 EXP: 713034 For next: 53169 Since: 03-15-04 From: Milwaukee, Wisconsin (U.S.A) Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 4 hours |
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| Hydrogen fueled vehicles expected in 2010. I dont think it will be bad at all. | |||
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||bass Programmer Admin Level: 44 Posts: 369/817 EXP: 570813 For next: 40472 Since: 03-15-04 From: Salem, Connecticut Since last post: 26 days Last activity: 11 days |
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Originally posted by Randy53215I know I'm responding to a bump but I don't care. This post pissed me off. Reality check people.... If you think the only thing oil prices have to do with are cars. You need to start looking at your own reality. -Everything- from the electricity in your walls to the chair you are sitting in right now required oil in its production. Pavement, plastics, power generation, machinery, shipping systems, transportation.... all of these things have one thing in common. They all require OIL for their production, use, and maintenence. Is it starting to sink it yet? Hydrogen fueled cars won't help you. It's like trying to put out a forest fire by pissing on it. Way to little.... way too late.... |
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The Sage Of Time Blue Octorok Level: 12 Posts: 28/46 EXP: 7444 For next: 477 Since: 04-12-04 Since last post: 40 days Last activity: 13 min. |
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| I'm really not suited for this discussion, but I'm curious.. Are there any viable alternatives for plastics right now? Everyone keeps talking about fuel for cars and electric power sources, which while very interesting isn't the full picture.. I really can't think of much, but I not being too knowledgable in this field thought I would ask. |
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Graviteh Level: 31 Posts: 180/500 EXP: 165989 For next: 19374 Since: 03-27-05 From: The Internet Since last post: 42 days Last activity: 1 day |
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| I'm sure that the scientists are trying very hard to come up with new ideas for energy. There will be an oil crisis, but we'll have alternative forms of energy by then. | |||
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HyperLamer <||bass> and this was the soloution i thought of that was guarinteed to piss off the greatest amount of people Sesshomaru Tamaranian Level: 118 Posts: 5392/8210 EXP: 18171887 For next: 211027 Since: 03-15-04 From: Canada, w00t! LOL FAD Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| Pardon the bump but I felt the need to say this. Running out of oil is only one of many, many reasons we're screwed. 1) Most computers today are 32-bit. This means they can work with numbers from 0 to 4,294,967,295. Their databases generally use 32-bit numbers to keep time. They count the number of milliseconds or seconds since Jan 1st, 1970, 12:00:00 AM. Come 2030-2040, they're going to max out. Big problem. 2) Sort of related to 1. The Y2K bug is really the Y2.156K bug. I can not believe so many people missed this. The number 100 means nothing to a computer. People wonder why they all rolled over to the year 2000 just fine? It's the number 255 we need to worry about. That's how far they can really count. So even if nothing happens when databases all think it's 1970, there may still be a problem in 2156 when they think it's 1900. 3) Pollution, global warming, overpopulation... you know the drill. All sorts of huge problems arisen from people reproducing so damn much and polluting. 4) An issue that's not often brought up: Electricity will, eventually, just plain stop working. Think about how most things work right now. The power runs through whatever it's powering, then into the ground. We're electrically charging the Earth. Just like charging a dead battery. Eventually it will be full, and then what? Best case scenario, any circuit that drains into the ground won't work. More likely, anytime one does, another gets electricity pushed back through it, probably ruining it. And there is the chance that the Earth will 'discharge' in a massive electricity explosion. Zap, you're dead! 5) And if none of that kills us, there is natural global warming. The sun is expanding. Eventually it'll be so big that Earth will just be too damn hot to support life. Have a nice day.  |
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Dei* Nipper Plant Level: 26  Posts: 210/412 EXP: 97995 For next: 4280 Since: 06-18-05 From: USA, Florida Since last post: 2 days Last activity: 1 day |
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| A crisis will happen and it will drastically reshape civilization. When the oil runs out or gets too low. It will be very very VERY bad. It's either what I said above will happen, or it'll be a catastrophic event that will destroy half the world or more. Whole nations will break out in arguments over it, it will not be good. The only way out will be when we develop some new global power source. |
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| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - World Affairs / Debate - The Oil Crash |
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