Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - Rom Hacking - new editor, bring change of pants
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MathOnNapkins
Posts: 1380/2189 |
I was just commenting on how this thread exploded into senseless bickering while I was away doing schoolwork this week. My, such a nasty attitude. I don't care about post count. I find it difficult to find more than 3-4 things to post about per day.
Not all posting is on topic. Welcome to Acmlm's. Just so you know, you can blame Lenophis for suggesting to talk about this here. You can expect people to be picky about work here. If you're going to release work to the public you should at least be able to deal with the fact that people are going to find errors in it. |
JCE3000GT
Posts: 7/8 |
It was a MISTAKE about the source. I accidently uploaded the RAR I was giving to Chickenlump to the main website. The source was NOT supposed to be leaked. And I do not want anyone to dsitribute the source nor alter it in any way. Having said that this is where the real issue begins. Granted I've been an ass, but that still doesn't mean my work has to be altered without my permission. Anyway, let me respond to all of this and we can move on.
jman0250: Now that is exactly what I was talking about. Because you put it in a tasteful and respectful way I WILL REDO THE GUI. Was that so hard? If the first few people would of put it cordially and tactfully as that I would of gladly taken that feedback and more then likely changed the GUI. Rather than all of us being assholes about it...and we all have it would of been done. Perhapts we all could learn from this--and yes including you Parasyte. We're all guilty of petty bickering. I'll use some freetime in the middle of the week to get a smaller GUI. Thank you for putting the comment tactfully--that's all I was looking for.
To the rest of you: Respect your fellow programmer and do not distribute the source code, nor alter it in anyway. This is the same thing as the Half-Life 2 source fiasco...let's not be theives please. Again, the source code was NOT INTENDED to be released to the public nor should it be distributed either. I know this community is based upon downloading roms and other illegal activity so I'm sure my reguests will not be respected.
MathOnNapkins: Wow, you came in here just to post that? At least our bickering--as idiotic as it was--was still ON TOPIC. If you don't really have anything to add to the thread then why post? +1 posts for you I guess is the real reason. |
MathOnNapkins
Posts: 1372/2189 |
I need a change of pants now, after reading this incredibly stupid thread. |
dan
Posts: 401/782 |
Strange, I redownloaded it, and it seems to be an entirely different RAR. The executable seems to be the same.
I don't want to upload it, as it's not my source to give away. |
Parasyte
Posts: 273/514 |
Have we downloaded the same release? The one I have is a rar containing only three files (tbl, exe, txt) none of which are sources. |
dan
Posts: 398/782 |
The source seems to be distributed with the program.  |
Parasyte
Posts: 271/514 |
Originally posted by DivineDragoonKain
30 ms may be 100 times faster than 3 seconds, but to the human comprehension (disregarding actual time), there is but a minor and SLIGHT difference (unless you're doing nothing but rendering maps or have some sort of hyperactive disorder, which I myself do, so that's not even an excuse). That's nothing but nitpicking.
The difference between 30ms and 3 seconds is not sublime; there is an obvious difference. The one thing I will agree with is your point, however; there can be instances where a speed comparison renders results which are either hardly, or completely unnoticable [without exact numbers]. If it were 30ms compared to 300ms, there would be no fault. Each of those are less than one half of a second, and are thus quite difficult to distinguish. But when you are able to count, "1, 2, 3..." as compared to what appears to be AN INSTANT, that's where the term "slight" goes way out of proportion.
Originally posted by DivineDragoonKain
However, I do agree about the GUI... to an extent. JCE should not be forced to take anything into consideration, but rather, someone who feels that this is a major problem should create their own version 1.1 that incorporates lower resolution support (with his permission). You say you've been programming for the better part of a decade, so why not help him with his problem? Even if you'll have no use for the editor, you'd be helping the CT hacking community in general, and would lessen the dark light you've been put into through this argument.
In which part of this whole fiasco have I not been trying to help him? Have I not given more than one idea to help solve the problem? If you're suggesting I download the source code (which is nowhere to be found, mind you) and do the work myself, yeah, I probably would have. But the source has not been made publicly available. So rather than any 60 second change made to the GUI, it would require starting a whole new project from scratch. I have already covered this aspect. This being the only option, I can help no more than give suggestions. |
Gavin
Posts: 479/799 |
(Gavin) wow, that editor thread is rediculous
(Gavin) parasyte` was right, regardless of his choice for the editor, someone suggesting a change shouldn't make him go insane
(Gavin) it's not like he could have changed 2 values, rebuilt the program, and uploaded it in under 60 seconds.
(Gavin) oh wait, he could have
(Gavin) if his real intention was to help people, why wouldn't he have either made a separate build for people with low resolutions?
(Gavin) or just simply fixed the flawed UI
(Gavin) i understand that people should be appreciative of released programs..
(Gavin) i mean, i know how it's impossible for me to ever finish anything (and furthermore to make something that is actually useful)
(Gavin) but you don't have to be a dick about it, it's not like people were making crazy demands and telling him to do lots of work
because i'm lazy as hell, copy/paste from irc.
If the source is available it makes perfect sense to say "do it yourself". And if I had VB installed on my computer still and available source I would do it this very second just to get everyone to stop being so dumb. If the source is not available, it seems somewhat silly to me suggest that someone should re-code the entire thing just to fix a small UI element.
If the source is available and nobody has fixed it by then, i'll do it next time i get to the lab workstations at class . Everyone really needs to chill out though. JCE you're a cool dude and you make good stuff, DD despite your handicap (DDR playing mf) you and Parasyte are cool bros too. Can't we all just be united in hating France?? 
oh yah, one more thing: "You may enjoy criticism, but remember that not everybody does." <=== keep that in mind, it's a life lesson really |
DahrkDaiz
Posts: 504/885 |
Originally posted by JCE3000GT
To DahrkDaiz: If I really wanted the recognition you stated I would of posted myself on every emulation forum that I could google. Did I? No. Lenophis told me he would post about it and asked me if it was ok...I said yea do it if you want to. I wanted to post on Zophar because I felt that the older community members would appreciate it to even a small degree...and I felt they deserved to know it exsisted. You absurdly stated that I've not contributed to the community eh? Oh, what a shock you now have that stance. I'm not going to address that, I'll let the community as a WHOLE decide that. I'm actually shocked you're acting the way you are...I always thought of you as a rather calm person. Hmm, too bad.
No, I was under the impression that you thought this editor was God's gift to ROM-Hacking, but I will admit that I was being a bit biased and apologize to that. My reference about "doing good for the emulation community" was to your data editor, not your entire work as a whole. I didn't say you didn't contribute at all, just that this editor wasn't the best thing since sliced bread. Thus, comparing this editor vs what some of us have done the entire time we've been here is a bit unfair and an unbalanced comparison, so I also apologize for that. I was also unaware of your other works and also apologize for that and now realize that you have done a great deal of work.
My only beef is the size of the Window. Quite honestly, others should have just said they didn't like it, then that should have been the end of that. And quite honestly, if someone doesn't like it, the source IS out there, and thus it can be changed. That's the joy of open source.
Hence forth, I retract my comments. The functionality is really good and the window issue is a minor hinderence that should honestly shouldn't have this much bickering over. I mean, people complain about M3I's interface and for over 2 years I defended it and said people just needed to get over it and get used to it's interface. If you want to change the GUI, go for it, if not, then don't. It IS your program, so I suppose I'll say that functionality is more important over the GUI itself and end it with that.
Edit: And this bickering is getting out of hand. I don't want to close this thread, but will if this can't be handled elsewhere. Let the window issue be and get back to discussing the awesomeness of this editor. |
DivineDragoonKain
Posts: 9/16 |
30 ms may be 100 times faster than 3 seconds, but to the human comprehension (disregarding actual time), there is but a minor and SLIGHT difference (unless you're doing nothing but rendering maps or have some sort of hyperactive disorder, which I myself do, so that's not even an excuse). That's nothing but nitpicking.
However, I do agree about the GUI... to an extent. JCE should not be forced to take anything into consideration, but rather, someone who feels that this is a major problem should create their own version 1.1 that incorporates lower resolution support (with his permission). You say you've been programming for the better part of a decade, so why not help him with his problem? Even if you'll have no use for the editor, you'd be helping the CT hacking community in general, and would lessen the dark light you've been put into through this argument. |
jman2050
Posts: 71/123 |
I agree with dan that maybe we need to be more tactful. I have a problem with that, but hey, I'm human, and so is parasyte.
JCE, ignore everything anyone else has said and listen to this. I'll say this straight up in the most tactful way possible: your utility is good. I like it alot, and if I were interested in hacking Chrono Trigger I would most decidedly use it with Temporal Flux for that purpose in a heartbeat.
However, with that said, I do have a suggestion I would like to make: the GUI, while it provides all the functions neccesary to work, takes up a lot of space. While you or other people might not have a problem with the large controls used to make the program, I'm informing you that me and some others do.It's not a difficult change to make. From my own experience with programming windows applications such changes to the GUI are trivial from a programming standpoint, and would not take up any more time. I implore you to consider this suggestion so that using this wonderful program will be easier on all of us. What do you think of this suggestion?
^ Is this a better way of expressing our viewpoint? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm being serious. This is exactly what Parasyte and I have been saying, just in less tactful and more direct terms. We do not mean to cause problems, we never do when we complain. Sometimes things don't come out the right way, and I'm sorry for that. There, I apologized for saying your GUI sucks and for being disruptive in my posting. However, I expect you to reciprocate by apologizing for making a rather impulsive response. I hold no ill will towards you, and I hope you don't towards me.
Geez, that took longer than I wanted. Why do my messages always en up being three times as long as I'd like  |
Parasyte
Posts: 270/514 |
More misinterpretation, please? I don't want you to get rid of your project. Why the hell else would I argue AGAINST your stance of leaving and not releasing anything? Do you not understand?
As far as experience goes, the reason I brought it up was to suggest that I do know at least a little about what I am talking about. You're making me out to be someone who randomly shoots things from my ass for no purpose. Further, you are not shoving anything down anyone's throat, this is clear from your insistance on running away. Hobby programmers who won't even take simple concerns such as GUI troubles into consideration should probably rethink a few things. Programming as a hobby is done for fun; you should not let miniscule complaints get to you in such ways. This is the idea that I am trying to bring up. I'm sorry that I'm such a failure! If you wish to ignore that there is anything wrong with the GUI, that's your business. But that whole thing has gone and put you off for WHO KNOWS what reason? Either accept that some things about it could change, or rebut it. There is no need to explode and strew accusations everwhere. That is why I feel sorry for you.
And yes, you should care what everyone thinks. Caring usually leads to progress and whatnot. You should also reconsider how you read my posts. I have never insulted you. This is another one of those conclusions which you have jumped to.
I also never said I was freindly about my critisism toward your GUI. In fact, I explicitly stated that I did not sugar-coat it. I do not hide this fact. (By the way, did you ever notice that my original comment -- the one which started all of this -- was typed in ALL CAPS? It seems that you missed this minor detail. A detail which often implies satire in the form of over-reacting. What was that you were saying about similes?)
Now then, I don't hate you. I do not hate your program, nor you GUI. I just strongly urge you to TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION that there may be some flaws in that GUI. Would you do that for me? Just take the time to inspect it, and imagine how people feel who don't care for any screen resolution other than 800x600? While on the subject of things I don't hate - I don't hate Geiger, I don't hate Temporal Flux, I don't hate Chrono Trigger, I don't hate a lot of things. Then again, I do hate a lot of things. I am human, after all.
So, what's left to debate? More about how I'm a nazi asshole who only sticks around to piss on people? How about the observation made that I attack and insult people in order to make myself look better? And I would like references. It always helps to clear up misinterpretations when the material in question is explicitly pointed out. |
JCE3000GT
Posts: 6/8 |
To DahrkDaiz: If I really wanted the recognition you stated I would of posted myself on every emulation forum that I could google. Did I? No. Lenophis told me he would post about it and asked me if it was ok...I said yea do it if you want to. I wanted to post on Zophar because I felt that the older community members would appreciate it to even a small degree...and I felt they deserved to know it exsisted. You absurdly stated that I've not contributed to the community eh? Oh, what a shock you now have that stance. I'm not going to address that, I'll let the community as a WHOLE decide that. I'm actually shocked you're acting the way you are...I always thought of you as a rather calm person. Hmm, too bad.
To Parasyte: So I don't use Lunar Trigger nor have I ever...no reason to. I don't just want to do graphic hacks...I want to do more complete hacks that involve more tedious item/char/enemy data. If Lunar Trigger does this then I'll be surprised to hear as I am not aware of anything that does these things to the degree that I have...if there is a program out there that does all the things I've done then I'll gladly take my project down from my site and forget it exsists. I did my program for myself like I stated because Temporal Flux didn't do these things and I didn't know of any program that did. As for the miniseconds comment, I was being overly sarcastic...maybe I should of thrown a smilee in for good measure. That's cool you've been programming for nearly a decade...I'm happy for you. I on the other hand have not being doing it for a decade...I've been doing other things as well. I do alot of things, some of which isn't computers. So, I guess I'm not a master of any ONE thing like I guess you are with programming. I am an auto mechanic, I fix computers, I program, I hack roms, I play pool, I play foozeball, and I've also taken some basic SCCA driving "classes" if you want to call it that. Programming is a hobby, not a lifestyle. So why would I overly want to shove it down someone's throat that I did something? That doesn't make sense. If you people can't honestly see that I was actually TRYING to contribute to the community by releasing a private project then I feel sorry for you. That was my true intent was to give CT hackers some tool they could use for thier hacks.
Should I really care what you think? No...that begs the question as to why do I care. I'm a defensive person at nature, you insult me and it's on. I don't take blatent insults very easily...as I considered your and everyone else's as obvious insults rather than friendly suggestive critism. READ your IRC chat quote...you did NOT exhibit this friendly critism...not in the least. And everyone else here jumped on your bandwagon because that's what today's society loves to do, follow the leader. Like Lemmings. So, I guess this is and will always be a never ending unfriendly debate on how much we hate each other and how much retorting we will do before intervention.
To Dan: Forget it, don't defend me, don't bother being positive about anything related to me...they will soon eb after your work too when I'm not here anylonger. It's a forgone conclusion that all there is to do nowadays is to complain about something someone else made rather then actually contributing something positive. Think about it, how is releasing a tool to automate some tasks like editing items not a positive thing--especially when the program works more than reasonably as designed. Sorry, this is 2005 the resolution thing is an old arguement...if you don't have a "15 monitor with at least a 32MB video card then you don't need to be using a computer. |
Parasyte
Posts: 269/514 |
Originally posted by JCE3000GT
My response:
See Parasyte this is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. You are picking apart other people's work just to nitpitck. This kind of post is exactly what I was talking about, you people that do this do NOTHING for the betterment of the emulation community. Peer, I frankly find nothihng wrong with your choice of .NET. I still think you've done a fantastic job.
Wrong, I am not picking at anything. If I see something which should probably be pointed out, I will point it out. Point in case; Geiger mentioned that Temporal Flux was only "slightly slower" than Lunar Trigger. I found that very odd, because I had used both and know there are vast differences in the speed. And so I set out to get some information on it for a rebuttle. (It's not nice to spread false information.)
Originally posted by JCE3000GT
30ms vs 3 seconds? You calculated the 30ms yourself didn't you.
No, Lunar Trigger did. It has a speed test feature that can be run by pressed the backslash key (\) which will render the current map 100 times and calculate the average speed. Averages were: Map 08E = 29ms, Map 0F4 = 31ms. So I simply averaged those and "calculated" 30ms. As for "calculating" the render speed of Temporal Flux, I had to time it with my watch and make as close an estimate as I could. Since it's OBVIOUSLY a longer wait than with Lunar Trigger, I doubt a precise speed would have much of an impact; 3 seconds is about right.
Originally posted by JCE3000GT
You must be one of those people Parasyte that speeds around on the freeway trying to get 1 car ahead don't you?
I have no idea what this has to do with anything, but to answer this question, "No." I've never violated any traffic laws (even when the cops weren't looking) because I have no need to. It pisses me off seeing idiots speed around everywhere just to get to the next red light faster than everyone else. It makes no damn sense.
Originally posted by JCE3000GT
So it's, 3 seconds...so what. Unless he's planning on releasing this under a company name to the retail/distributor marker why does he really need to care how long it takes to do something--and even then it's still his prerogative what he codes. Especially if it works.
Yeah, sure, 3 seconds isn't all that bad. But compared to 30ms, it's a bit on the slow side. You realize I would have said nothing if Geiger hadn't made such a claim, right? That claim being that Temporal Flux is only "slightly slower" than Lunar Trigger, in case you have forgotten.
Originally posted by JCE3000GT
So, if you really don't like .NET and you feel his program is too slow just code your own CT editor using what ever means deem you fit...oh wait you don't even like nor play CT. Then WHY are you even in this thread? You don't even contribute anything worthwhile to the advancement of CT editing. I was hoping Peer had some new info in this thread...then I see your ambiguously stupid post. You don't like my interface, you don't like Peer's extra 3 seconds (supposedly 3 seconds)...what's next. This is really getting old.
Take note that there are no hidden messages in either of my posts. Both you and Geiger jump to conclusions and read into things which are not there. No where in my reply to the Temporal Flux thread did I ever mention my disliking of .NET. I may have indirectly implied it, but Geiger's response was a byproduct of my stating to him earlier that I hated it.
What you fail to realize is that I have contributed 1) Something to consider about your GUI, 2) Plenty of ideas to attempt to fix it, 3) Correction of information regarding "Temporal Flux vs Lunar Trigger". I don't do this out of spite. If something is wrong, something should be done about it. Plain and simple.
And I'm surprised that you found my post 'ambiguously stupid'. I may have to remind you that your whole ideals of a community are 'ambiguously stupid'. In a community you are not supposed to contribute, then turn around and run away crying, making claims that it would be better if you hadn't released anything, or that those who dislike your work should "do better". You are supposed to contribute, then absorb all the information you can about how users feel about your contribution; good or bad. After serious consideration of pros and cons, AND ONLY AFTER SERIOUS CONSIDERATION, should you decide to impliment or rebut.
But what do I know about these things? I've just been a programmer for the better part of a decade who's contributed plenty to certain internet communities. I'm just a programmer who everyone hates. I get bombarded with 'flames' every time I make a suggestion or correction. That is probably what makes me seem so irratable.
Originally posted by JCE3000GT
Maybe Peer should of never released his editor and I never released mine, and everyone else never released thier work...where would that of taken us? We would still be hex editing NES ROM is where we would of been. I'm out.
Yes. Let's not release our software because the inevitability of human error will cause someone to point out those unavoidable mistakes! That is some incredible logic. While we're at it, we probably should not have hex editors, because those probably contain some bugs. I bet you've never imagined how the authors of GNU/Linux feel when someone makes a suggestion, complaint, or straight up tells them all of their work sucks? GNU/Linux and the Free Software Foundation are not going anywhere, no matter how many hundreds of times more complaints they get every day.
But hey, I'm not telling you how to run things. I could easily tell you that "complaints" should not bother you. You have plenty of hobbyist programmers to look up to in this regard. You have to make such decisions for yourself.
Ah yes, and stop searching so hard for evidence to incriminate me with. Accusing me of proclaiming that .NET sucks (when I clearly had not) is down right ludacris. Further more, you require checking your sources before spouting off about certain subjects. Questioning my 'ability' to calculate the rendering speed of Lunar Trigger? Have you even used the program?
P.S. How do you like my reaction to Geiger in his thread? He asked me not to reply, so I obliged. Imagine that. |
dan
Posts: 394/782 |
Originally posted by DahrkDaiz
And I garuntee you, we've done more good for the "emulation community/rom hacking community" than this little data editor of yours, so don't think yourself so high and mighty for releasing your editor. You obviously wanted recognition for your work, a bit more than what you're getting.
JCE has released many utilities in the past. In my mind, he has done "more good" for the rom hacking community than the vast majority of members on this forum, including yourself. But I dunno, maybe I'm being weird in valuing people who work on and release editors.
From recent posts on this forum, people need to chill out at utilities authors. Ranting and raving at them won't do anyone any good at all. (Hell, it may even make things worse) However that said, I can see the motive behind all this bashing of utilities. To make them better. Maybe more tact is called for in the future? |
DahrkDaiz
Posts: 503/885 |
Oh please, get over yourself! People are ALWAYS nit picky, and quite honestly, this isn't nit picking. It can't take no more than 30 minutes to change the co-ordinates of the widgets and fix the window resolution, then you can release this as 1.1 for users with lower resolution. It can't be that hard!
People are offering suggestions on fixing it left and right and they keep being ignored. God forbid anyone have something bad to say about another's work. This isn't a communistic community, there are people who are good and those that are better and what makes those programmers/hackers that are better are those who LISTEN to criticism and adjust their work accordingly, not ignore it and bicker.
And I garuntee you, we've done more good for the "emulation community/rom hacking community" than this little data editor of yours, so don't think yourself so high and mighty for releasing your editor. You obviously wanted recognition for your work, a bit more than what you're getting.
|
JCE3000GT
Posts: 5/8 |
I'm going to prove my point by quoting you in the Temporal Flux thread. I'd do it there, but Peer has requested that no one respond to that little arguement...so out of RESPECT to him I'll clutter up this topic.
YOU:
On my machine, Lunar Trigger can render large maps (for example, 08E and 0F4) in about 30ms. Temporal Flux v1.06 takes almost 3 seconds to render these maps. I don't see how 3 seconds is only "slightly slower" than 30 milliseconds. That's actually on the order of 100 times slower. *shrug*
As for the WIP, 4 times faster [than the current public build] is still no where near as fast as Lunar Trigger. Either I am completely missing any point you may have about the speed comparison between Lunar Trigger and Temporal Flux, or the .NET framework really is as damn slow as anyone could imagine.
Peer/Geiger:
Parasyte: Either I am completely missing any point you may have about the speed comparison between Lunar Trigger and Temporal Flux
Geiger: You seem to be getting some radically different times than I did.
Does not really much matter though. You do not like .NET? That is fine. I heard you the first 20 times you said it. I will code this program for whatever platform I choose. And if I decide to use an algorithm that takes 30 minutes to render an empty map, then so be it. You can love it or leave it.
Frankly, you people are starting to get on my last damn nerve. If you do not have anything constructive to add to this thread then do not post. And that includes any further posts on this exchange. No apologies, no retorts, and no taking up one side or the other.
Add to the signal, not the noise.
My response:
See Parasyte this is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. You are picking apart other people's work just to nitpitck. This kind of post is exactly what I was talking about, you people that do this do NOTHING for the betterment of the emulation community. Peer, I frankly find nothihng wrong with your choice of .NET. I still think you've done a fantastic job. 30ms vs 3 seconds? You calculated the 30ms yourself didn't you. You must be one of those people Parasyte that speeds around on the freeway trying to get 1 car ahead don't you? So it's, 3 seconds...so what. Unless he's planning on releasing this under a company name to the retail/distributor marker why does he really need to care how long it takes to do something--and even then it's still his prerogative what he codes. Especially if it works. So, if you really don't like .NET and you feel his program is too slow just code your own CT editor using what ever means deem you fit...oh wait you don't even like nor play CT. Then WHY are you even in this thread? You don't even contribute anything worthwhile to the advancement of CT editing. I was hoping Peer had some new info in this thread...then I see your ambiguously stupid post. You don't like my interface, you don't like Peer's extra 3 seconds (supposedly 3 seconds)...what's next. This is really getting old.
Maybe Peer should of never released his editor and I never released mine, and everyone else never released thier work...where would that of taken us? We would still be hex editing NES ROM is where we would of been. I'm out. |
Parasyte
Posts: 264/514 |
I must insist that everyone reread my posts. (And even that little IRC clipping, if you wish). If anyone is over-reacting, it would have to be JCE. Criticism comes in many forms. It can't often be sugar-coated just to make it any easier to bear. I, myself, provided a few suggestions how the problem could be solved, or at least made better. Instead of taking note, he goes on his little rampage, making claims that support the suggestion that he really does not care about anyone who uses the program. I'd like to see the guys behind the Free Software Foundation (including GNU/Linux) make such bold statements as, "If you don't like it, let's see you do better!" All of their software is completely free. Not only monetarily free, but also gives you plenty of freedom over the software itself. This being the case, programmers who code strictly as a hobby have little right to be so insanely crass when problems with how their programs work are brought to attention. Take note that I said work. JCE's claim is that it does work. My claim is that it does not work on all computer setups. This is a screen resolution issue. Further, telling someone they should change their video resolution is... well, what you people like to refer to as "elitism". Just because people use 800x600 does not mean that they CAN'T, but perhaps they perfer to. They have their reasons for liking such a screen resolution just as you have your reasons for disliking it. Telling them they must change what they like just to suit you is pushing it.
Bringing back the whole "if you don't like it..." BS, I will point out that I hold no interest whatsoever in Chrono Trigger. I have not played the game at all, to be perfect honest. The meaning to all of this is that I am not arguing for myself in any way, shape or form; but rather for users of this program. Certainly, 95% or more of the users will have no problem with it. But just because the minority is so small does not give you any right to neglect them. I don't go around making a huge, 2048x2048 dialog for my Mega Man 7 editor just because it's a common size for a stage bitmap. You would call me outright stupid for such a thing. I would equally call myself stupid for that. If it doesn't fit in the window, there are always solutions. Scroll Bars are always a great place to start.
That out of the way, I really don't have much to say about the current situation of the program. JCE clearly only wants praise. This can be more-or-less verified by his own comments in this thread. He explodes over well-structured, thought-provoking, though unsympathetic commentary. I have not attacked him, his programming skills, or thje features or tools supplied in his program. But that is what he sees. Not much I can do about that, really. He does not wish to address any issue brought up regarding the GUI. Why this is, I cannot say. He would rather leave the IRC channel, or leave the forum before even considering working on it. That is what I call "storming off" -- it's as if to say, "If I don't get my way, I will just leave. Let's see how you like that!" If that's your solution to the pitfalls in your GUI design, so be it. Just remember that the only people you are hurting are the program's users.
I don't have any use for "anything better" as I've seen mentioned here, many times before. I also have no need to write "anything better" because I would have no use for it. I'm fairly certain that few others would have any use for it, either. The time it would take to write a replacement would cost far more than the time taken to move a few things around in Visual Basic's form editor and call it "version 1.1".
At the end of the day, if you want to give your thanks to JCE, you know where he can be reached. But if you have anything to say regarding the faults of the program, don't even bother. It would especially be unwise to show the same lack of effort to sugar-coat it that he's displayed in accepting that his program is not perfect.
To JCE: your "generosity", as you put it, has just been flooded and completely overwhelmed by your emotional outburst. I can only apologize that you took such offense to what I had to say. I was never hostile towards you. Instead, that was your 'gift' to me. Put your ego on the back burner and listen to reason, OK? And for God's sake, don't become Miss Drama Queen when someone comes to you with a problem and won't let up. It is your responsibility as the author of the program to take such problems into account. Saying that one portion of the program is 'bad' is not saying that the whole program is bad. You must come to realize this. We are trying to help you, but you are not willing to help yourself.
Since you are on the defensive against flames and whatnot, I have omitted the final portion of my post. I will send it your way when you regain your cool. Keep in mind, it's not exactly pretty, but it's an honest opinion, and I feel the issue must be addresses on a very personal level. What I have to say about it should not be public knowledge. So, there you have it. |
DahrkDaiz
Posts: 498/885 |
*sigh* I think the point is, it was a poor choice of GUI design. That's all. And lets get back to the topic folks. |
jman2050
Posts: 66/123 |
Oh god, I can only imagine what will happen if editors started using things like the paper clip
"Hi, welcome to Crystal Dreams, the Crystallis editor!. Press me to learn about what a ROM is, or click on the dog above me to learn about hexidecimal numbers!"
Actually, come to think of it, that'd be hilarious XD |
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hukka
