Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - General Emulation - Troubles with Final Fantasy 3
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Colin
Posts: 6675/11302 |
If SoE was released in Japan, it was under a totally different name that didn't include the word "Evermore". I can't be bothered to check right now but I know it received multiple European released and an American release. I think that's it. |
Vystrix Nexoth
Posts: 266/348 |
duly noted. I prepared a standalone page with the tables above: http://zero-soul.panicus.org/misc/ffgames.html - that should have the corrections mentioned. |
Heian-794
Posts: 640/896 |
Originally posted by Vystrix Nexoth
And, for completeness, the Game Boy "Final Fantasy" games, along with the other games in their respective series, for comparison:
| Japan | America | System |
|---|
|
| SaGa 4 | Romancing SaGa | Super NES | | SaGa 5 | Romancing SaGa II | Super NES | | SaGa 6 | Romancing SaGa III | Super NES | | SaGa 7 | SaGa Frontier | Playstation |
|
...
"Secret of Evermore" was Made in America
Lenophis
Posts: 360/830 |
Originally posted by Colin
And didn't FF4 get a WS port?
Indeed it did. And thank you VN for that table, even though some would choose to ignore it... 
I'm surpised Tactics and every FF1, FF4, and FF6 hack aren't in that list! [/sarcasm] |
Colin
Posts: 6606/11302 |
Yeah, the FF Legend games are all SaGa games. FFL1 is notable for having one of the WORST translations Square has ever produced... FFL2 was a bit better, FFL3 was decent.
The FFL1 translation is surprising given that the game included a decent long manual to boot. I think they spent more time on the manual than the game.
And didn't FF4 get a WS port? |
Vystrix Nexoth
Posts: 260/348 |
Nebetsu: that list is indeed correct. In addition:- FF1 was re-released on the MSX back in the day, with a few extra colors and such. I don't think it looks that great.
- FF1 and FF2 were originally re-made and re-released on the WonderSwan Color (a portable console that was never released in America); the PlayStation and Game Boy Advance ports were based thereon.
Furthermore, none of the Game Boy "Final Fantasy" games are actually Final Fantasy games:- The "Final Fantasy Legend" games are part of the SaGa series, if I'm not mistaken.
- "Final Fantasy Adventure" is actually Seiken Densetsu I ("Secret of Mana" is Seiken Densetsu II).
Final Fantasy Mystic Quest is noteworthy as being the only Final Fantasy game, to my knowledge, to be released in America before Japan. After the success of "Final Fantasy II" (FF4) in America, Square was originally going to release Final Fantasy V here (under the name "Final Fantasy Extreme" due to its difficulty compared to FF4, let alone the easytype version we got, which is a story in itself), but instead opted to develop a game specifically for the American audience. That game was Final Fantasy Mystic Quest. The Japanese audience, though, stuck out their collective bottom lips and stamped their collective feet, so Square translated it into Japanese and released it there, under the name "Final Fantasy USA".
Final Fantasy IV has the most convoluted story out of all the games. The original version (now known as the "Hardtype" version) was Japanese-only. Square later modified the game to make it easier (either you get more experience or don't need as much, I don't remember which), and released this "Final Fantasy IV Easytype", again only in Japan. When Square opted to translate it into English and release it to American audiences, they translated the Easytype version, and that became our "Final Fantasy II". Along the way, some parts of the game were culled away, such as Cecil's "Dark Wave" attack (which you can still see when he fights himself atop Mt. Ordeals), Rosa's "Prayer" command (which heals everyone by a small amount but with no MP cost), and such. These are not present in FF2US, but I don't remember whether they were present in FF4ET.
Anyhow, once Square decided to re-release FF4-FF6 on the PlayStation, they, as we know, used the original numbers this time around. Plus, with Final Fantasy IV, the translation and game were finally based on the original, "Hardtype" version.
The PlayStation re-releases of Final Fantasy II and Final Fantasy V mark the first time those games have officially been released in America (or Europe for that matter), along with the original "Hardtype" of Final Fantasy IV, as mentioned.
Final Fantasy III remains the only game that has not officially been released outside Japan.
[Edit] For reference, here's a table showing each of the Final Fantasy games, all ports thereof that I'm aware of, and the names under which they are known in Japan and America:
| Japan | America | System |
|---|
| Final Fantasy | Final Fantasy | NES | | --- | MSX | | --- | WonderSwan Color | | Final Fantasy II | --- | NES | | --- | WonderSwan Color | | FF1 + FF2 | (untitled) | --- | NES | | F.F. Origins* | Final Fantasy Origins | Playstation | | Dawn of Souls | Dawn of Souls | Game Boy Advance | | Final Fantasy III | --- | NES | | Final Fantasy IV | Hardtype | --- | Super NES | | --- | WonderSwan Color | | Final Fantasy IV | Playstation | | Easytype | Final Fantasy II | Super NES | | Final Fantasy USA | Final Fantasy Mystic Quest | Super NES | | Final Fantasy V | --- | Super NES | | Final Fantasy V | Playstation | | Final Fantasy VI | Final Fantasy III | Super NES | | Final Fantasy VI | Playstation | | Final Fantasy VII | Final Fantasy VII | Playstation | | Final Fantasy VIII | Final Fantasy VIII | Playstation | | Final Fantasy IX | Final Fantasy IX | Playstation | | Final Fantasy X | Final Fantasy X | Playstation2 | | Final Fantasy X-2 | Final Fantasy X-2 | Playstation2 | | Final Fantasy XI | Final Fantasy XI | Playstation2 & PC |
| | Final Fantasy Tactics | Final Fantasy Tactics | Playstation | | Final Fantasy Tactics Advance | Final Fantasy Tactics Advance | Game Boy Advance |
* Regarding the Playstation ports of Final Fantasy I and Final Fantasy II:- In Japan, they were released separately.
- In Europe, they are on separate discs but are distributed together as "Final Fantasy Origins". It also marks the first time either game has officially been released in Europe.
- In America, the two games are on a single disc as "Final Fantasy Origins". It marks the first time Final Fantasy II has officially been released there.
And, for completeness, the Game Boy "Final Fantasy" games, along with the other games in their respective series, for comparison:
| Japan | America | System |
|---|
| Makai Toushi SaGa | Final Fantasy Legend | Game Boy | | SaGa 2 | Final Fantasy Legend II | Game Boy | | SaGa 3 | Final Fantasy Legend III | Game Boy | | SaGa 4 | Romancing SaGa | Super NES | | SaGa 5 | Romancing SaGa II | Super NES | | SaGa 6 | Romancing SaGa III | Super NES | | SaGa 7 | SaGa Frontier | Playstation |
| | Seiken Densetsu | Final Fantasy Adventure | Game Boy | | Seiken Densetsu II | Secret of Mana | Super NES | | Seiken Densetsu III | --- | Super NES | | Seiken Densetsu IV | Legend of Mana | Playstation |
"Secret of Evermore" was Made in America |
Nebetsu
Posts: 952/1574 |
Ok. So lets get the whole FF names thing straight so I'm not confused.
FF I (NES/PS/GBA)
FF II (NES/PS/GBA)
FF III (NES)
FF IV (SNES/PS) = American FF II (SNES)
FF V (SNES/PS)
FF VI (SNES/PS) = American FF III (SNES)
FF VII (PS)
FF VIII (PS)
FF IX (PS)
FF X (PS2)
FF X-2 (PS2)
FF XI (PS2)
That's right... right? |
drjayphd
Posts: 866/1477 |
Originally posted by Chibi Gatomon
um can we get back on topic?
That ship has sailed LOOOONG ago, my fine feathered friend. 
ANYWAY, as far as what you were asking, I'm certain there's different codes for v1.0 and v1.1. 
(cracks open a beer and watches the Special Olympics) |
Lenophis
Posts: 355/830 |
Originally posted by dan
They didn't rename the game retroactively. They renamed it at the time of release of the SNES version of Final Fantasy 3. 
Dan: "It's ok for Nintendo to rename a game they didn't make to whatever they want, because they translated it. However, it's not ok for Squaresoft, original creator of the game, to fix said game, release it on a new system, with it's original name. Because we need to ridicule Squaresoft for fixing a mistake that Nintendo made."
Dan, you are basing this on the assumption that Squaresoft merely just ported it to the PSX. And for the most part it was. But you can't sit here and call it a direct port of the American version. Bugs were fixed, dialogue changed (as if it were re-translated), so you can't say with absolute certainty that they "retroactively renamed it." For all you know, it was a complete redoing of the original version, so stop with the guesswork.
I think this argument could go on to the end of time really. So, I'll be the one to bow out. (Mostly because neither side is budging an inch, and repeating the same arguments over and over get tiring)
I'm presenting the truth. You won't accept the truth. You say you base your logic on what Nintendo says, and the GoodSnes name? GoodSnes probably based the label on what Nintendo gave it. I'll even quote Shakespeare:
"A rose by any other name will smell just as sweet." The rose is in this case, is the original name, which is FF6. Which Nintendo renamed to fool morons (and since you are taking that bait, you are included in that list) and make them ignorant of the truth (and you've shown a good example of that as well). You have said that someone shouldn't just go and rename something on a whim, then why do you say that Nintendo can get away with it? Renaming is renaming, doesn't matter when it was done during production. Nintendo was wrong, the GoodSNES set naming was based on that wrong information, so guess what that makes you? Wrong on all accounts. And yet, you insist that Squaresoft is at fault....
But since you have shown ignorance, arguing with you is as pointless as arguing with anybody. Because "I cannot possibly be wrong, it's me." Even with the correct information, you refuse to accept it. "...he's just being an idiot about it."
That was my last try, if at this point you wish to "be an idiot" and still stand by your misguided logic, go ahead. Mod, I call you, close this. Since you seem to win "cuz I'm the mod." |
Prier
Posts: 5146/8392 |
Actually I win cuz I'm the mod.  |
Gavin
Posts: 470/799 |
yah, i just don't like seeing my internet friends fight with each other 
therefore i declare myself the winner. |
Prier
Posts: 5140/8392 |
Originally posted by Gavin
all of you are idiots for caring. it's just a video game... neigh, it's just a video game title.
Not really idiots, it's good debate material. And it's a decent point either way. |
Gavin
Posts: 460/799 |
all of you are idiots for caring. it's just a video game... neigh, it's just a video game title. |
Prier
Posts: 5138/8392 |
Originally posted by dan
...Just because the majority of people think something to be true doesn't mean that it is true...
WOAH FR33 j00r MYND NEO!11
But seriously...if you got and talk to most people and mentioned the phrase 'Final Fantasy III' without details (such as 'Oh yea, Final Fantasy III kicked ass.') a vast majority of people are going to say 'Uh...you mean Japan or US?' then most will argue with you if you say US, course I probably wouldn't care because VI or IIIUS kicks ass no matter what the name. |
dan
Posts: 393/782 |
Originally posted by Colin
I think the phrase "majority rules" comes into play here. 99% of gamers on the Internet know better than to call FF6 by it's incorrect (in terms of the series) name.
If you were to go onto a message board and say "I was playing Final Fantasy III today" the vast majority of users would take that statement to believe that you were playing the NES version. And they'd be right to do so.
Just because the majority of people think something to be true doesn't mean that it is true.
Originally posted by Lenophis
Originally posted by dan
As much as you would like to, you cannot retroactively rename a game. Even Squaresoft or Nintendo couldn't do it.
Only problem is, Nintendo did do it. Not Nintendo's game, but they still have final say on all titles released on their systems. Why do you think it was renamed to fool the general public in the first place? They didn't want to put up with the translations of FF2, 3, or 5, so that's why they did what they did.
They didn't rename the game retroactively. They renamed it at the time of release of the SNES version of Final Fantasy 3.
I think this argument could go on to the end of time really. So, I'll be the one to bow out. (Mostly because neither side is budging an inch, and repeating the same arguments over and over get tiring) |
Colin
Posts: 6525/11302 |
Nintendo only did the FF1 translation, I think.
Don't forget, Square was working on FF2 for the NES at one time, and even whipped up a crude translation (which can be found at Lost Levels), but of course it was never released. I think if Square had the resources in the American market and hadn't taken so long to consider porting FF2 over, they might have been able to get the NES trilogy out of the way. But stuff happens. |
Lenophis
Posts: 353/830 |
Originally posted by dan
As much as you would like to, you cannot retroactively rename a game. Even Squaresoft or Nintendo couldn't do it.
Only problem is, Nintendo did do it. Not Nintendo's game, but they still have final say on all titles released on their systems. Why do you think it was renamed to fool the general public in the first place? They didn't want to put up with the translations of FF2, 3, or 5, so that's why they did what they did.
I don't even see Squaresoft coming out with a statement saying that the american SNES Final Fantasy 3 game should be referred to as Final Fantasy 6. If they did, they would get ridiculed.
*awaits Dan to ridicule Nintendo* Think about it for just one moment, if Nintendo didn't play their hand, then they would've been released as their proper title initially, and we wouldn't be having this discussion. They are originally to blame. Well? |
Colin
Posts: 6520/11302 |
I think the phrase "majority rules" comes into play here. 99% of gamers on the Internet know better than to call FF6 by it's incorrect (in terms of the series) name.
If you were to go onto a message board and say "I was playing Final Fantasy III today" the vast majority of users would take that statement to believe that you were playing the NES version. And they'd be right to do so. |
dan
Posts: 387/782 |
Originally posted by Lenophis
Number 1: We don't base our logic soley on the words of Nintendo.
Number 2: It's Squaresoft's game, not Nintendo's. Squaresoft since re-released it as the proper number (like it should've been in the first place.) As was FF4. So there are two american versions, one correct, one incorrect and out of date. So if you want to continue to base your logic on something that is 10 years old...go ahead.
As much as you would like to, you cannot retroactively rename a game. Even Squaresoft or Nintendo couldn't do it. I don't even see Squaresoft coming out with a statement saying that the american SNES Final Fantasy 3 game should be referred to as Final Fantasy 6. If they did, they would get ridiculed.
People should be free to call the game either Final Fantasy 3, or Final Fantasy 6, they shouldn't be chastised if they choose to call it by its actual release title. Or vice versa. |
Lenophis
Posts: 352/830 |
Originally posted by dan
It's not being spiteful if you refer to the game under the official name given to it on release. It doesn't matter if it was incorrect, or not in sequence with the japanese versions, it is name of the american version regardless of whether you or some random people try to pretend otherwise. Nintendo have the game listed as Final Fantasy 3, and that is good enough for me.
Number 1: We don't base our logic soley on the words of Nintendo.
Number 2: It's Squaresoft's game, not Nintendo's. Squaresoft since re-released it as the proper number (like it should've been in the first place.) As was FF4. So there are two american versions, one correct, one incorrect and out of date. So if you want to continue to base your logic on something that is 10 years old...go ahead.
If that means that I'm immature in your eyes, so be it.
No, you're just being stubborn when the correct information has been put in front of you.
Chibi: don't cheat too much now, you are trying to enjoy the game, right?
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