Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - World Affairs / Debate - Do you think the elections are over?
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geeogree
Posts: 158/448 |
I heard that the money for the recount in Ohio has been raised and that it is going to happen....
but, I haven't heard anything confirmed yet....
oh and New Hampshire is getting a recount as well....
I wonder when this is going to come out? if it every does |
kiwibonga
Posts: 241/266 |
I read recently that Kerry had $50 million left from the campaign money
Now imagine for a moment that you're over the age of 50, have lost the election, the votes weren't counted very well, but in the end, a recount would put the whole country in limbo, with very slim chances that you'd actually win...
OR... You could just walk out with 50 million dollars and retire 
I pick the 50 million. |
Kefka
Posts: 2357/3392 |
Originally posted by Apple
There has been KNOWN cheating in presidental elections as far back as the 1880's. I'm pretty sure they happened before than as well.
Everyone praises JFK but guess how he won the presidency? He cheated. Dead people can't vote... unless they are voting democrat. Nixon knew of the voting frauds and you know what he did? Nothing. He sucked it up and continued on with his life.
Nixon > You
Actually, Nixon was a pussy for sucking up voter fraud and not doing anything about it. Kerry isn't as much of a pussy because the possibilities of voter fraud seemed fuzzier this time around and the margin to make up in the remaining ballots was too great to make up in his mind, so that's why he conceded.
But Nixon had no reason to concede. The margin to make up was ridiculously minimal (in Illinois, at least) and the possibilities of voter fraud in several states was clearly high.
And if you want my honest opinion, I think in my home state of California, the only reason why Bush didn't win the state is because of voter fraud. But that's a different issue...
Anyway, I think someone who tries to correct an error in the way American democracy is handled is better than someone who wimps out and lets the error overtake him.
So sorry, but Nixon < Me 
In Nixon's defense (on Watergate, anyway), he had reason to be fearful, and had a big motive to do the watergate scandal. This, of course, was all because of the election that slipped out of his hands because of his own pussiness. So, I believe that letting him off the hook there was understandable.
Btw, JFK sucked ass. Major ass.
Originally posted by Ziffski
Perfection can't exist outside of God.
Your point?
Actually, perfections seem to exist inside God as well. Our all-loving God, who exists in hundreds of different forms (based on how many religions there are and have been, anyway), including "pagan" forms, decides that all people who don't worship to a designated form of himself will go to hell in that particular faction of God-worshipping. So, a Catholic's soul may be in Catholic heaven, but apparently is going through Muslim hell, Protestant hell, Jewish hell, et al at the same time. And a Hindu person will be going through Christian hell, Mormon hell, et al while simultaneously being in Nirvana.
Find any imperfections yet?
But, of course, South Park always has the correct answer to everything.
(Reminded of South Park episode):
[Setting: Fiery Furnace, aka HELL]
Catholic man: What the... how did... why am I here? What did I do wrong? I was a good, devout Catholic my entire life!
Voice: I'm sorry, the correct answer was MORMON.
Catholic man: Ah, shit.
So apparently, according to the all-knowing South Park show, all non-Mormons go to hell...
Luckily, the Mormons have a very unique aspect in their religion: if you sign up to be Mormon and are currently not in the Mormon church (we'll just say this guy's... Catholic), you can not only sign up yourself and your family members, but sign up all your non-Mormon ancestors as well who are already dead, and, according to Mormon teachings, already in hell.
So basically, if you become Mormon, you can save your soul and the soul of all those who are in your bloodline!
The tradeoff, of course, is that now your soul and the souls of all those you just "condemned" will now be having a straight ticket to Catholic hell while they're hanging out in Mormon heaven...
Wow, I rambled |
Sokarhacd
Posts: 625/1757 |
I wonder what will happen if it comes down that kerry would have actually won...it would be pretty weird I think... |
kiwibonga
Posts: 240/266 |
THERE WE GO
Keep your eyes peeled. |
Tarale
Posts: 798/2720 |
Originally posted by Arwon
So it's... okay... that American democracy is not a democracy but actually somewhere between gangsterism and a random crap-shoot?
I'm going to think of it like the Chocolate Wheel at the casino
Round and round and round she goes... where she stops, nobody knows!
 |
Arwon
Posts: 214/506 |
So it's... okay... that American democracy is not a democracy but actually somewhere between gangsterism and a random crap-shoot? |
Apple
Posts: 546/594 |
There has been KNOWN cheating in presidental elections as far back as the 1880's. I'm pretty sure they happened before than as well.
Everyone praises JFK but guess how he won the presidency? He cheated. Dead people can't vote... unless they are voting democrat. Nixon knew of the voting frauds and you know what he did? Nothing. He sucked it up and continued on with his life.
Nixon > You |
Legion
Posts: 2984/5657 |
Originally posted by Dracoon
Uhhh yeah legion, in short, you were being a jackass by saying that.
There's no need for flaming and/or trolling here. Ok thanks bye. |
alte Hexe
Posts: 1643/5458 |
Perfection can't exist outside of God.
Your point? |
Dracoon
Posts: 1719/3727 |
Uhhh yeah legion, in short, you were being a jackass by saying that.
Of course evoting doesn't work, we have hackers that can do EVERYTHING! (At least now) Unless someone takes the time to make a good way of voting where everything will work perfectly then there is no way we can actually do anything about this. Wait... I have a solution...:
They take 50 voters into a room at a time, they blind fold them, and then they do a hand count. Oh crap, the person counting can skip a few... hmm... guess it is impossible.
Democracy can't work. It has to many flaws and a perfect democracy can't exsist, even though I actually think we are a republic still that is off topic. This is a problem that is signifcant, but if it helped Bush win, why would he do anything about it? |
Arwon
Posts: 213/506 |
Originally posted by |+Legion+|
No, what I mean to say is if Kerry was in Bush's spot right now, this thread wouldn't be here. 
Alas....
These conspiracy theories are always funny as hell. One of my favorite ones is how they said that on 9/11, it wasn't a airplane that crashed into the Pentagon and that it was some sort of missile. Classic! 
Dude, what in God's holy hell are you talking about? There's ORDERS OF JESUS-SODDING MAGNITUDE between the entirely legitimate and realistic concerns over the irregularities of the US electoral systems and that stupid theory about the Pentagon. If you'll recall, in that thread, I was one of the people shouting down people over that idiocy. So let's not play that angle, shall we?
There's been concerns over voting machines for years. There's been concerns over shifty electoral practises in different states and counties for years, counties passing laws and working the electoral rolls to help get the right outcome, people sending out mail designed to scare and confuse voters into thinking they'll get arrested if they show ID at a polling place, just to name a couple of examples off the top of my head. These are not things sore losers have made up in the last week.
If this is sour grapes, you're just gloating andbeing obnoxious. And you know what, there would be talk like this if Kerry had won. On election day there were grumblings at places like Freerepublic about double registration and fake names. Republicans weren't happy about certain things either and if the result had have gone differently they would be screaming to high flurking heaven about liberal media white-washing the Democrats theft of the election. |
alte Hexe
Posts: 1638/5458 |
There are going to be nuts to say everything about anything. You know that lamp that you have in your bedroom? It emits a special form of radiation known as "X-Rays" and "UV-Rays" as the government researchers like to call them, which can not only damage your skin, but render you infertile!
Frankly, the lack of paper trails on the electronic voting machines was a damned fool choice for the American electoral societies. Voting machines of any sort are going to have problems, and as it was said on John Stewart (curse me for quoting him) "These new voting machines take the inherit problems of a 17th century electoral system and couple it with the inaccountability of 21st century technology". |
Tarale
Posts: 796/2720 |
Probably.
Still, this stuff was bought up well before the election, in nations besides the US too. Other nations have had problems, and others have rejected evoting entirely. So there is substance to this.
Sure, just because this stuff is perfect Conspiracy Theory fodder, doesn't mean we shouldn't take it seriously and make sure that problems don't occur in the future... |
windwaker
Posts: 407/1797 |
Question.
Is it just me... or are there conspiracy theories no matter who wins?  |
Tarale
Posts: 794/2720 |
Actually, I was talking more about the faults than anything else. 
Although that also brings up the security issues. The diebold machines' security and accuracy has also been being discussed for months and months leading up to the election. Black Box Voting at one stage said that a number of the machines were unpatched Windows computers, and insecure to the point that any individual that knew the phone number attached to the PC could've modified votes without even authenticating.
If that really is the case, they should be looking at making things more secure. On the assumption that Black Box Voting were telling the truth, then that means that ANYBODY in the world -- even Osama bin Laden -- would've been able to modify votes. Even assuming that nobody did modify votes, that security hole needs to be patched, and methods need to be taken to secure those machines.
Australia's voting machines are electronic, and the software used to run them is Open Source. We don't seem to be having as much trouble as the closed, proprietary diebold systems had in terms of security or accuracy. |
MathOnNapkins
Posts: 925/2189 |
Maybe this thread wouldn't be here, but no doubt some group would be discussing it in terms of Kerry. It's the way politics works. |
Legion
Posts: 2981/5657 |
Since when is voting fraud NOT a conspiracy? Especially when the accused is the current president himself?  |
Tarale
Posts: 793/2720 |
Actually, we probably would be reading this either way. As I tried to point out with the links I posted, this has been a concern for a very long time. I've been hearing about faults in evoting, diebold machines, etc for a very very long time, in countries besides the US as well.
I doubt the concerns over the accuracy of the voting machines would've just fizzled out because Kerry won.
It's not conspiracy theory (although I'm sure the tinfoil hat crowd are lapping it up). The problems with voting machines are real. If they weren't real, then Governments wouldn't have rejected e-voting on the basis of these problems.
A lot of the faults in this election wouldn't have swung things, but that's not the point -- the point is that there shouldn't be faults in the first place. |
windwaker
Posts: 389/1797 |
That's because we wouldn't care if Bush cheated or the machines were faulty . |
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