Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - World Affairs / Debate - Hillary Clinton 2008
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Heian-794
Posts: 528/896 |
As to socialism...what's wrong with it? I'd like to hear somebody actually explain this for once, rather than just say it's bad and nothing more.
Well, the simple explanation is that not everybody likes having the government involved in their lives. "But others do want this," you may say. Well, in a hyper-libertarian society where government is restricted to the bare essentials, those people can always go form a commune somewhere where everyone contributes all or most of their work to the public good. But try creating an island of libertarianism in a hyper-socialist/communist nation! The government would have you in jail the moment you refused to pay your taxes! Thus a society with extremely limited government, with opportunities for people to create communal havens at the local level, will meet everyone's needs best.
I myself would be happy to live in a small socialist enclave where I personally knew everyone in the society. But I wouldn't give up my money and labor for people I'll never come in contact with. |
Kefka
Posts: 2348/3392 |
Originally posted by windwaker
How the hell am I supposed to decide if I want her as president or not? I barely know anything about her; making a decision now is pointless.
Usually candidates start making themselves known about 2 years or less before the election... John Kerry decided to not make himself known really until 8 months before, and that probably bit him in the ass a bit. Hilary would start a little earlier if she was serious about running (and all signs point to this being the case). |
windwaker
Posts: 360/1797 |
How the hell am I supposed to decide if I want her as president or not? I barely know anything about her; making a decision now is pointless. |
Steak
Posts: 318/507 |
Originally posted by Heian-794
Kasumi-Astra, we most certainly have heard her politics. She's an anti-male bigot and a "government-knows-best" socialist.
Hillary Clinton once said "Women are the real victims of war. They lose husbands, sons..."
In a world where only men get drafted, and over 99% of military deaths are male, she claims that her sex are the real victims!?
Simple explanation of what she's thinking (though I don't agree with it either): men die, their suffering is over. Women live on, watching the important men in their life die...and have to carry the grief and burden 'till the end of their days. *shrugs*
As to socialism...what's wrong with it? I'd like to hear somebody actually explain this for once, rather than just say it's bad and nothing more.
If we still have a country in 2008...it'd be nice to see a change in pace like having a woman call the shots. Possibly have Bob Dole's wife (I can't remember her first name...is it Patricia?) run against her on the Republican platform...just to shake things up.
Somethin' I remember from a few years ago...Jesse Ventura on the Tonight Show. Looked Jay right in the face and talked about his post-wrestling career: lived in a town in Minnesota for awhile, ran for Mayor, won it, served one term, got out, had a state-wide radio program for a few years, ran for Governor, won it, served one term, got out, and said he got a nation-wide program on MSNBC...leaving an implication on the end. I think we're gonna have an honest third contender...if the increasingly crummy economy keeps the USA still alive by the time 2008 rolls around. |
Heian-794
Posts: 527/896 |
Kasumi-Astra, we most certainly have heard her politics. She's an anti-male bigot and a "government-knows-best" socialist.
Hillary Clinton once said "Women are the real victims of war. They lose husbands, sons..."
In a world where only men get drafted, and over 99% of military deaths are male, she claims that her sex are the real victims!?
She's going to get lots of votes from women just because she's female. And because there are nearly 20% more women eligible to vote than men (you know, with them not having to die in war and all), she can pander to them and win the election.
The US has never had a female president and I'd love to see one. But so far the only candidate is Hillary. Who else can run?
If she runs against Rudy in 2008, I'm switching to the Republican party. I don't live in the US and can't vote in the primaries, but I still have citizenship and plan to keep voting until the US gets someone good in office. |
Lunar Depths
Posts: 59/67 |
Legion, don't worry, some of us got it =D I guess some people just don't read most of your posts. I was just a little late on the uptake I guess... weekends away from home make my posts awfully late.
I have a question really quickly because I'm really too lazy and too busy to look up all the information I'd need to inform myself bout this, so does anyone know the details about White Water? Not sure if that's two words or one. From what I understand, that's the main reason why people don't like Hillary. Besides the fact that she tried to steal stuff from the White House... |
HighSorceressDelial
Posts: 297/380 |
Originally posted by Kasumi-Astra
I find some of the opinions expressed here quite upsetting... I can't see why everyone would want to move out when the US already has the worst case scenario President in office right now.
We haven't even seen her policies yet.
Compared to what America has just done to its self with George Bush, she'd be wonderful.
Everyone keeps saying that they don't like her, but why? Give me an exact reason and example.
~Delial |
Ailure
Posts: 5819/11162 |
Belive me you rather want Hillary Clinton as president than Gudrun Schyman.  (yes, she was the nut who wanted man tax. It never got through since everyone besides her thought it was a stupid idea. But the news papers and sites picked it up...  )
Honestly, is she that bad? Wouldn't there be worser womans as presidents?  |
Ran-chan
Posts: 4876/12781 |
We know that you don |
Anya
Posts: 3390/5337 |
And I just want to move to Figi. *shurgs*
But anyway, I don't care if she was a man, thing, three-eyed monster, I just don't like her. She seems a bit fake to me. And as for Bill, he was a great talker, but that's about it, me thinks.
But I have to head off to work right now, so I can't give more of my say....then again, I really don't have that much to say anyway, so...umm...yea. |
Ran-chan
Posts: 4872/12781 |
I don |
Legion
Posts: 2801/5657 |
See, when I said it, it was a joke. I had previously said many times with much fervor that people who said they were moving because of Bush being re-elected made me sick. So I thought it would be funny...
Ah, forget it. My jokes never work here.
But Hillary as President would be horrible.  And you know she would get votes soley for the fact that she's a woman. Ugh. And hey! She already was the President. har har har |
Kasumi-Astra
Posts: 945/1867 |
I find some of the opinions expressed here quite upsetting... I can't see why everyone would want to move out when the US already has the worst case scenario President in office right now.
We haven't even seen her policies yet.
If Rudy did run for the Republican candidate then I could see a lot of people voting for him. However, running a country is very different to running a city.
I also do note that because Clinton is a woman, there will be a political effect against her, but I'm sure it's not nearly as sizable as the factors counting for her.
It is true that people have voted on the moral issues this time around, but in all honesty some of the state ballots (including the gay marriage ballot) shouldn't have gone to the public vote. This is simply because gay people are a minority and didn't stand a chance against being outnumbered by fundamentalist Christian organisations.
I also would like to know why "a Clinton" is such a bad thing. While Bill Clinton was in office, he was a good President, despite his womanising.
I'm looking forward to Hillary Clinton running for President. At least it would make the election more interesting than last time. |
NSNick
Posts: 1285/3875 |
He's the former mayor of New York City. |
Ran-chan
Posts: 4858/12781 |
Who is Rudolph Guliani? I wouldn |
Colin
Posts: 4952/11302 |
Cheney's not expected to go for it in 2008. His heart would likely play a rather important part in that decision. 
I think it's waaaaaay too early to figure out who's going to battle it out in 2008, but both sides have a lot of potential presidents and VP's. It's going to be extremely interesting, to say the least. |
Kefka
Posts: 2343/3392 |
Originally posted by NSNick
All of you are noting the negative effect Hilary's gender has, but what about the impact it'll have on female votes? Would it drive up female voter turnout? Would the vast majority of females vote based on gender alone?
But no, I think she'd still lose.
Too many women in the red states are kept at their houses while their husbands go out to vote still So no, female turnout wouldn't drastically change. |
NSNick
Posts: 1283/3875 |
All of you are noting the negative effect Hilary's gender has, but what about the impact it'll have on female votes? Would it drive up female voter turnout? Would the vast majority of females vote based on gender alone?
But no, I think she'd still lose. |
Kefka
Posts: 2339/3392 |
Something you're forgetting when you are saying two days after an election who will be running in the next one:
Those candidates you mentioned have to compete against others in their party before they get the nod.
Hilary Clinton, as capable as she may be, will probably have to compete against some other worthy senators from states like... well, perhaps Iowa, and Washington... i.e. you can't assume she will get the nod, especially since she is a woman, and, whether we like it or not, that does have a political effect against her.
Rudy will have to compete against several others as well, perhaps including Cheney, even though he will be 70+ years old by then. All Rudy has going for him is that he happened to be the mayor in New York at the time that 9/11 happened, so he was then perceived as a hero for some reason. Granted, during his time as mayor, crime went down in New York, but not a whole lot else happened. Who knows who might run for president for the Republicans? Hell, Tom Delay (another guy from Texas... but perhaps even more of a nutcase than Bush) could attempt to run, but I certainly hope he wouldn't get the nod. I know Delay's nephew... and he's just as much a nutcase as Tom is. "It is a necessity that every American owns a gun for their own protection as well as recreation."
Yea, how many people do you think would want him on the ticket after hearing him say that? Well, his nephew told me anyway that he will attempt to become the president in 2008. His nephew also boldly predicted that he would win at least one primary.
Anyway, too many possibilities for presidential candidates in 2008. Hell, Gore might even try to run again.
But one way or another, I think it would be very hard for Hilary to get past the primaries and go on to get the nod for the Democratic Party. |
Dracoon
Posts: 1689/3727 |
I'm moving when I get older anyways... At least I think ...
Seriously, I am tired of people having T.V. and the internet, but not knowing that the government lies to them on a daily basis.
If Hilary wins, I will lose all faith in humanity, become a theologist, study the bible (and other things I guees), pinpoint the date of the end of the world, and declare that the world is going to end exactly one day before the end of the world. No one will believe me and all will die. YAY! |
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