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Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - Rom Hacking - Do the people at Nintendo use editors to make their games?

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<blockquote>Originally posted by Gavin<hr><blockquote>Originally posted by Sergeant Billakov<hr>WTF? They dont use any code we are familiar with. They use sa special sort of code that only the people wqrking at the company know. Far beyond ASM or whatever the hell. Editors? Meh... Editors edit a specific game.

Dumb question. No offense.<hr></blockquote>

no offence but you really have no idea what you are talking about.

i'm fairly certain some SNES games have been known to have been compiled with C in the past. Although someone with more SNES knowledge should probably fill in.

For NES games, if they did not have any sort of other developement language, they probably had well constructed ASM code collections, depending on who the devleloper was. I have no way of knowing if Nintendo provided companies with special dev kits filled with common code or not, but i wouldn't be suprised if i companies made their own. It would seem inefficient not to.

It would certainly not suprise me in any way if they made their own special developement programs. These people were, after all, programmers :P. It would be in their nature and best monetary interests to efficiently use their time and energies in aiding in game production.

what you have to remember is that they would most probably not really use an "editor" per se. They would use a "developement tool", since they have the source sitting right in front of them. I would guess they would go through whatever process they created to more efficiently make a level design, then compile the program.<hr></blockquote>

User	Post
d4s Posts: 96/325	company sometimes used available map editors instead of making their own. for example, they used TUME http://members.aol.com/opentume/ for lion kings(snes) levels. for tume you usually code your own conversion tool, however. so dont expect to be able to edit the levels of lion king directly in tume or something similar stupid.
Ailure Posts: 6156/11162	It could be said as well, Nintendo have offical SDK kits which the companies get's. It's mostly basic tools for things such as the "sappy" system, but it gives gaming companies an headstart.
Kefka Posts: 2364/3392	Hrmm... I never saw this topic before, but now that I do, I will look at the first post and stupidly respond to it without reading any of its replies... Okie, well, I coincidentally looked around about this at one time just out of curiosity... Not sure about Nintendo, but it would seem that the majority of companies have people specifically hired for programming the editors, and then the game designers use those editors to... well... design the game. It gives more people more money
Kyoufu Kawa Posts: 882/2481	To think me and my comrades recently acquired a conv...oops. *Kawa-oneechan waves his hand around These aren't the tools you're looking for.
Jaz Posts: 2/25	Why don't we all look at the Credits in eash of our favorites games and ask those guys? I'm not talking about Nintendo themselves but people like Codemaster and such I mean... some of those guys are probably retired by now and should make a come back for us... loyal fans! This is just my 2 cents, I'm Canadian so i'll call it my cent and a half.
HyperLamer Posts: 1892/8210	First, they write the game. This was generally done in ASM on older platforms but usually C now. As the source code is complete with labels and comments, it can be split into multiple files and easily modified, unlike hacking the pre-compiled code. Next, they make all the resources (levels, graphics, sound etc) using their own editors. (Don't expect to get a copy.) The editors don't work with the pre-compiled ROM, they create/edit files from scratch, and each resource is stored in its own file. Finally, the compiler puts it all together into a big lump of hex. When you're hacking it, of course, you don't have the comments or labels of the original code (and if it's done in C, you really don't have the code at all, rather an ASM recreation), and all of the files are mashed together, so it's more difficult. Whereas Nintendo can just change the code, make the level bigger, even add something completely new in a manner of minutes and re-compile it, when you hack the ROM you need to adjust pointers, find free space, etc. Ideally, you'd want to disassemble it back to at least ASM with labels and comments (no direct address references at all, so that the code can be edited freely), with all resources separate. Then you'd have as much control over the game as they do. Of course, that's hard.
Cellar Dweller Posts: 167/269	My guess is that back in the days of the NES levels tended to be created on graph paper and then typed into a asm source file using hex data pseudo opcodes. After that, levels would be created using a simple editor, simpler than EggVine or LM. Nowdays, 3D games tend to be created using commercial CAD programs and exported to the game's native format by custom plugins. We will probably never know for sure what Nintendo used for SMW. It is possible that Nintendo reused parts of thier SMW editor for YI. I've read that ID used a custom editor that ran on the NeXT platform to create levels for DOOM. I'm not sure, but I think that the source code for it has been released. (NeXT was a computer company started by Steve Jobs after being kicked out of Apple. NeXT has since been acquired by Apple.)
Darkmatt Posts: 148/212	Indeed, seriously, they have to actually CODE the objects and the engine piece by piece. They could've used an editor, and they probably did. As wise man once said, with flexibility, comes complications.
DurfarC Posts: 126/483	You're right, of course, Lunar Magic can be easier to use, and you can see what you're making too, but there are some other games where the editors aren't all that good, like Mario Improvement 3. It has quite easy editing, but it takes long time, and it's always attaching bugs to the ROM
BMF98567 Posts: 442/1261	Originally posted by DurfarC I think the editors game creators make are a lot of better than those we are making for ROM-hacking now. However, some of the editors made today(like Lunar Magic...) can do the work nice too Not necessarily. Lunar Magic is almost certainly better than the original tool Nintendo used, not just in terms of the features it has, but also overall appearance and ease of use. For all we know, the original level editor could've even been text-based, using hex values in boxes rather than actual graphics (levels were often designed on paper anyway, so you wouldn't need to see the layout on-screen). Keep in mind that Nintendo's programmers and designers built the game from the ground up, and thus had an intimate knowledge of its inner workings; they likely wouldn't need a nice-looking GUI oozing with features to effectively work their magic.
DurfarC Posts: 120/483	Originally posted by Keikonium Well, I wasn't talking about editing the levels, just the text of the guns. I have gameshark codes that can do it all for me. I found some interesting PD info that will be posted in a thread in about 2 seconds about editing the levels (via GS)!!! And the link that DurfarC provided has some AMAZING shots of retextured GE levels and an amazing PD like gun. I know they are However, it seems that the project has been in silence in four months now. You can follow the progress and download some more in their forums, but... They need more mappers and people to help them too. I was nearly to join, but I found that I didn't got the time and the experience... Yet.... I think the editors game creators make are a lot of better than those we are making for ROM-hacking now. However, some of the editors made today(like Lunar Magic...) can do the work nice too
hoppityhow Posts: 7/7	um its obvious that they use editors. they just aren't the same as the kind we use. their editors dont hack the completed game like ours. they just straight up create the levels based upon the games code, put it into a form that the game will understand, and then insert it into the uncompleted code, compile it, and come up with the completed game.
interdpth Posts: 358/527	I remember with a lot of Nintendos games in the credits "Tools Programmers" So I would say they do.
Keikonium Posts: 773/-2459	Well, I wasn't talking about editing the levels, just the text of the guns. I have gameshark codes that can do it all for me. I found some interesting PD info that will be posted in a thread in about 2 seconds about editing the levels (via GS)!!! And the link that DurfarC provided has some AMAZING shots of retextured GE levels and an amazing PD like gun.
Drag Posts: 226/254	Not necessarilly ASM anymore... that was ok with NES and GB, and MAYBE SNES, but as we get into more complicated systems, C / C++ / C# / Cwhatever seems to be getting more popular, since you can just compile it to run on the [game system here]'s cpu, just like you can for intel, amd, celery, and every other processer that's out there. I'm kinda interested in how you'd edit 3d levels... I'd be more happy about a Mario 64 level editor.
Keikonium Posts: 772/-2459	Ah, I see now. So they pretty much used everything (editors, asm [sort-of], and other programs [custom made]). I am getting more in to hex editing so as soon as my new computer comes, Perfect Dark will (hopefully) be getting a bit of ROM editing by me. I have awesome ideas for changing the weapons clip, mag, properties, look, acts like settings, so thanks to the person who posted that perfect dark link.
Gavin Posts: 280/799	ahh, i see. thanks
DahrkDaiz Posts: 366/885	Well, editors used to create levels and other objects part of a game were certainly used. They would be completely retarded not to. Even amateur game developers create programs that create levels that are designed for their games. As for the code, obviously they didn't use a hex editor to code the ASM. There were assemblers created for the coding part of early videogame generation consoles, then compilers for later generations. Some great developers (especially Rare) didn't use the standard devkits and made their own and really tapped into a system's power.
MathOnNapkins Posts: 757/2189	No rendered are 3D modeled graphics that are made using a special graphics workstation (or at least back in the day they were) and those can be turned into high quality 2D graphics, as in Donkey Kong Country 1-3 for example.
Gavin Posts: 279/799	Originally posted by Chickenlump Well, I'm pretty sure alot of the graphics were done by hand and not in some development tool or 'editor' (rendered graphics aside). by "rednered graphics" you mean the NES graphic format?
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Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - Rom Hacking - Do the people at Nintendo use editors to make their games?

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