Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - General Gaming - Medroid: Fusion or Metroid: Zero Mission
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Surlent
Posts: 646/1077 |
Originally posted by MathOnNapkins
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And thus, glitched sequence breaking is usually the most interesting b/c even a game designer would rarely see it happening. like being able to avoid breaking the maridian tube to complete SM. That takes insight and glitches.
Hehe, I know that. And when I found out by myself how to beat Kraid the last (I hadn't internet then and didn't know there were people 'discovering' that way earlier  ), I just was happy to override Nintendo's technical borders in the game. So they really didn't ensure you _really_ will need the Varia Suit in order to pass the hot parts in Super Metroid - so you can keep it until you get the Gravity Suit. That one actually IS required since you have to get somehow to the lower part of Norfair later 
As for the Metroid games, the graphics in Metroid Fusion were not that bad. But as stated before, it was way too straight-forwarded. I didn't finish Metroid Zero Mission yet, but it was already promising nice to play that 'old enhanced' game.
Imagine a Zelda with a predefined dungeon setup 
Even in the old Zelda I you already were given at least some freedom. And it is always a nice feeling to have a super-powered up hero in a game (Lufia II), have items you usually should not have yet or simply visited places not available yet  |
MathOnNapkins
Posts: 807/2189 |
By "obvious" sequence breaking I mean things like the inclusion of speed blocks in conspicuous places for the sole purpose of providing a different route. When you add alternate paths that do not seem to offer anything other than the opportunity to sequence break that is stupid. stupid stupid. More authentic feeling sequence breaking would involve using moves you know how to do in unexpected ways to get items/achieve other goals earlier than expected. The reason sequence breaking was guaranteed to not be very interesting in ZM is b/c very few moves were added. in fact, almost none, really.
And thus, glitched sequence breaking is usually the most interesting b/c even a game designer would rarely see it happening. like being able to avoid breaking the maridian tube to complete SM. That takes insight and glitches. |
NeoAvatar
Posts: 5/7 |
Okay, now I'm going to get my two-cents in and all since I am one of these so-called "Metroid fanatics". They are all good games, and one of their themes is that every game has a different formula. Yes, the basics are still there, but they are all set up differently. This might be slightly long so I apologize.
The original Metroid was exactly that. The original. The first. Nothing else exactly the same. (and by the way you could sequence break and skip Ridley and Kraid and go straight to Mother Brain). The secret worlds were fun, but unintentional.
The second Metroid deviated heavily from the original. Hunt Metroids. Highly original and unique. Again, the secret worlds were fun, but unintentional.
Super Metroid is considered the best by many people. Why? Sequence breaking. It was intentional (in most parts), it was fun. It was the first time the idea was widely explored. The glitches were fun, but shame on everyone who thinks that a game is the best thing in the wolrd because of its glitches. You never rate games based on their fun glitches.
Fusion's sole purpose was to further the storyline and make it so that Metroids were still around. One of a kind - plot driven storyline. That's why it was so linear. If they left it at "Oh hell, the infant gave its life to save me now there's none left!!!" there couldn't be anymore Metroid games, now could there? Yes, you couldn't sequence break Fusion. Yes, that disappointed several people. Oh well. Get over it. It wasn't meant to outdo Super Metroid. They fixed the glithces. Kudos to them. If you got bored with it, challenge yourself by doing a 1% run. It has replay value, you just have to look for it.
Prime was 3-D. I haven't played it as much, but I think it's safe to say that making the game into 3-D made it one of a kind.
Metroid Zero Mission was stand alone because of a true stealth sequence and being able to choose the difficulty (for a 2-D Metroid that's new, unless you count the Japanese version of Fusion). Yes, it had sequence breaking. You would think that people would rejoice over that after complaining with Fusion. But no. "It's too obvious" everyone says. That's a joke. Ridley before Kraid was not obvious. Horizontal bomb jumping? Gah, if that was obvious I'll shoot myself in the foot. It was a solid game that has more replay value than most (personal best time of 00:41:14).
So as you can see they are all unique and different in their own way. They are all good games. If you can, get both Fusion and Zero Mission, but if you can only get one, get Zero Mission (it has the original Metroid, a Time Attack mode, different difficulties, a sound test, image gallery...). It has more to it than Fusion. |
Zem
Posts: 244/1107 |
Disch and MathOnNapkins perfectly articulated my feelings about these games. Thanks assholes. Stealing my thoughts and shit. |
Xeolord
Posts: 565/3418 |
The reason I think Fusion lacked quality and a true essence to the Metroid Saga, is simply because the entire game took place on an artificial metallic world, being a spaceship.
The thing I truly enjoyed about most of the other Metroid games, was the simple fact of diving deep down into the crust of a planet. The dark underground environments were just something you didn't see everyday in gaming, a totally underground and interconnected world linked to different parts and areas for you to explore.
Maybe it's just me and the game just had to fit it's setting and be a spaceship only game, but I believe that kind of dumbed down the "Metroid" experience.
Again, I'm not saying Fusion was bad, I just disliked the setting and environment the game provided. |
MathOnNapkins
Posts: 720/2189 |
Fusion had a chance to be good but it blew. I really really liked it for the first maybe 30 minutes I played it. When I realized I'd just be sent around a ship for several hours with uninspired environments that are rip offs of older games mostly, I got bored.
If I ever hack Fusion, it will be awesome because I'm going to make the game mostly nonlinear, and the SA-X will be able to hunt you ANYWHERE in the ship. Granted the SA-X was unnerving the first play through, but when you know when it's going to show up on subsequent playthroughs, it takes all the fun out of it. You can replace the plot easily by having samus check into the computers to get data whenever she needs it, to see what's going on, maybe even keep tabs on the SA-X.
Zero Mission was better primarily b/c I thought it seemed more polished. The music was better. The graphics seemed quite a bit better as well (NO cheesy final SA-X type bosses). The gameplay was tweaked to give it a more Super Metroid type feel, which I personally prefer. The Samus sprite looks way better.
Don't get me wrong, there are things about Zero Mission that make me cringe. One of which is intentional sequence breaking. It kind of takes the fun out of sequence breaking when you can pretty much see that the alternate route you "found" was planned to happen. SM's sequence breaking also seemed planned, but in a much more subtle way. It also had glitches that obviously opened up unexpected pathways. I know of no glitches in ZM at this time.
The other annoying thing about ZM is what happens after Mother Brain. It was, for lack of a better word, stupid. Just plain stupid. Everything about it seemed rushed, and furthermore, unnecessary. Chozodia as a name? Oh god shoot me now please. The list could go on but on the whole it was a decent remake I guess. |
Dish
Posts: 144/596 |
Well I'm gonna butt in here to give my 2 cents... even though it's pretty late in the discussion.
To get this out of the way: Metroid: Zero Mission [MZM] is superior to Metroid: Fusion [MF]. However, neither quite stack up to their predecessor, Super Metroid [SM].
Note: I haven't played Prime... so whenever I make references to the entire series... assume Prime is excluded.
Now to explain why:
What makes the Metroid series what it is... is the feeling of exploration. Finding your way though a mysterious maze filled with baddies. It isn't really an action shooter. If you're looking to just run through a straight level and blast things as you go... you'd be better off playing Contra, or Metal Slug... or one of the other million games like that. Havnig said that... Metroid is non-linear by nature. The original tossed you in the middle of a planet, with no direction of where to go. You had to find the items you need, and explore to find the right paths to take. Every Metroid game afterwards followed suit (it is the theme of the series, afterall)... EXCEPT for Fusion. Which really took a lot of the flavor out.
Now let's look at what Fusion does to the game. First of all... you're no longer exploring a dark and mysterious alien planet. You're on a freaking space station. What the hell kind of fun is 'exploring' a space station... I mean really. They tried to give each area themes so it kind of seemed like you were exploring... but the atmosphere that existed in all other Metroid games just wasn't there... which made the game feel really shallow.
Secondly... Fusion does the absolute WORST thing you can do in a game. The put in manditory cutscenes which take forever that you have no way of bypassing or even skipping. I swear I want to punch every single coder/designer that puts that crap into games. Now i know it's part of the experience to read the cutscenes, which I do, and I enjoy them.... the first time I play. After that, you don't want to read them anymore... I'll never understand why games force you to.
Now... a lot of people confuse these cutscenes for plot... then they say Fusion had the best plot of the series (again; excluding Prime). The cutscenes do NOT add more story to the game.... I mean read them. They ALL either consist of:
"X has infected this monster -- go to this area and stop it" ... or
"This powerup is ready -- go to this area and retreive it"
Of course the game stretches those sentences across 10 or 20 pages so you have to wait 2 minutes to sort through them.
The SA-X was a nice way to enhance the plot (and just to add a cool villain). But, really... the plot in MF is comparable to the plot in every other Metroid game. No better, no worse.
Third... MF went out of its way to make sequence breaking (and thus, free exploration) impossible. This is probably the biggest downside to the game. It completely strips ALL exploration right from the game. The only things you really have to search for are hidden items... the path is completely linear up until the very end, where you're finally given some freedom. And worst of all... you have to take the exact same path every single time you play the game. This gives a big hit to the replay value of the game... as well as going against almost everything the Metroid series is about.
I probably made MF sound worse than it is... a lot of that was me ranting. Really, MF is a fun game. But due to its several shortcommings, it doesn't match up to SM or MZM.
I want to start MZM off by saying: MZM is nothing like the original Metroid. Those of you that are saying it's a clone or a copy or "based on" must not have played MZM... or must not have played Metroid 1. The only thing the 2 games share is the plot... which MZM really twists beyond recogniztion near the end. MZM also gives Samus more of a backstory (which it does with ONE SKIPPABLE cutscene)... when all Metroid 1 did was reveal "omg Samus is a woman!".
Zero Mission got a lot of things right. They corrected a lot of mistakes they made with MF, but also kept some of the good ideas MF brought to the table. It was designed extremely well, outlining a path for the casual player to follow... but also allowing the player to freely explore -- and (as someone else pointed out), sequence breaking was really in mind when they were designing the levels. You are given SO much freedom in this game, it's unbelievable. Overall... MZM was really a top-notch game... I was really happy to see that MF didn't permanently damage the series. |
The Guru of Furu
Posts: 94/240 |
I have to say that I really liked Zero Mission, especially since i never played the original game so i had nothing to compare it to to make it better or worse. It is posisble to go out of order in both games, not as much in Fussion, but if you work at it you can do it. They are both a helluva lot of fun but as most people have said Zero mission is much more like the traditional games, but that is part of the reason why Fussion is a lot of fun, cause it's a different spin on a great game. Try em both cause they're both crazy fun, but get Zero Mission first if you have to make that choice. |
Zem
Posts: 221/1107 |
No, it doesn't have to be non-linear to make it a good game. But since the non-linearity is exactly what many people like best about older Metroid games, it's well-worth pointing out that Fusion doesn't have any of it.
Fusion is a fun game for the action. And there is still exploring, if not finding new paths.... but..
I prefer Zero Mission. (Though the cutscenes, and the whole last part of the game both got irritating after several playthroughs... but the fact that several playthroughs were warranted is a compliment to the game.) The sequence breaking is much more than just being able to fight bosses out of order - you can skip most of the powerups too, just to be a badass. It seems as though it forces you to the one path, but it turns out the alternate routes are merely well-concealed. Even the Long Beam is skippable. I don't like the statues that tell you where to go - I think it would have been funner even to discover the "standard" route without help - but they're easy to ignore. Also I like the shinespark puzzles a lot.
Fusion was fun, but I think Zero Mission is better in every way. But I'm also one of those people who thinks Super Metroid was far better than both of them.  |
Clockworkz
Posts: 1541/2002 |
Look at the games in terms of the positives, not just the negatives. Zero Mission has a bunch of cool scenes at the end, thus ensuring a lot of replay. Also, hard mode with 10 percent is hard as hell to get. In Metroid Fusion, it basically takes everything great about Metroid 3 and doubled it. Sure it's linear, but's still fun as hell and very challenging. I have them both, and I couldn't be happier. |
Colin
Posts: 4648/11302 |
So it's linear. *shrugs* Doesn't make a game bad. Might detract from its replay value, but linear gameplay doesn't mean that the game's a disgrace to the Metroid series. 
Wouldn't Metroid II be quite linear? |
Keitaro
Posts: 760/1342 |
hmm, I can agree with you here. But I mean...some people I know IMMEDIATLY say the game is complete trash for lacking in those areas, and I just think thats really screwed up  |
Squash Monster
Posts: 436/677 |
Originally posted by MajinBlueDragon
People who care THAT MUCH about "omg its so nonliner u suk" really are....agh. Just play the game for what it is, not what its become obsessivly cult-organized around.  ; seriously. Metroid fanboys are like the KKK of the 21st century
Without the sequence breaking, Metroid is stripped down to two things: blowing stuff up and exploring (which you can't do much of in Fusion, becouse the computer tells you where you need to go). Most of the reward behind exploring is sequence breaking. As for blowing stuff up - other series are better at that than Metroid.
Don't get me wrong, Fusion is a great game, despite missing most of what makes Metroid, well, Metroid. It just can't compete with a proper Metroid title. |
Prier
Posts: 3695/8392 |
Yea it'd be nice for me if I actually had a GBA and those two games and quite a few others but...
...eh...for what ROMs I get...it's not that much of a biggie. :\ |
Nebetsu
Posts: 355/1574 |
Originally posted by Valcion
They're both awesome for different reasons.
Get them both.
Maybe I will when I get money... |
Valcion
Posts: 594/1139 |
They're both awesome for different reasons.
Get them both. |
Keitaro
Posts: 758/1342 |
eh. perhaps KKK was too strong of a comparison, yeah and well....the only next-step-down-ish thing I could think of was comparing them to the women's rights movement so.... |
Alastor the Stylish
Posts: 2421/7620 |
Originally posted by Ten
KKK? That's taking it a little far don't you think?
I'm just saying Zero Mission could have been better if it had the slightish things changed. Like that one DBZ movie.
And thus your opinion is revealed to be shit. |
Ten
Posts: 72/198 |
KKK? That's taking it a little far don't you think?
I'm just saying Zero Mission could have been better if it had the slightish things changed. Like that one DBZ movie. |
Keitaro
Posts: 756/1342 |
People who care THAT MUCH about "omg its so nonliner u suk" really are....agh. Just play the game for what it is, not what its become obsessivly cult-organized around. ; seriously. Metroid fanboys are like the KKK of the 21st century |
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