Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - Super Mario World hacking - Is the creation of Lunar Magic a good thing?
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Parasyte
Posts: 94/514 |
Originally posted by hhallahh
Parasyte
That's your subjective answer. Other people will have different answers. Some may even be different than yours, God forbid.
Fact of the matter is, time and effort are a fundamental requirement to make a good hack. Whether Hacker Foobar wants to put any time or effort into a hack is beside the point. Wants and needs are relatively different things. As Disch has pointed out many times thus far, a hacker needs the drive to put time and effort into a hack. If you can't cut it, you'll either end up with a partially completed hack, or nothing at all.
To elaborate: a good hack will always be worth the time and effort. It won't matter if a few solid years were spent on it, or just a single afternoon; it's worth it. Why is it worth it? Because the result will be a good hack, and everyone gets to play it!
Now, putting a lot of time and effort into a bad hack, that's just a disaster. No, it's certainly not worth putting time or effort into a bad hack.
And to hell with the economical nonsense. I'm a quality-over-quantity kind of guy. A single good hack (or "excellent" as Daiz pointed out) will always be better for the community than a billion bad hacks, or a single bad hack for that matter. The positive side-effects will ALWAYS cancel and outweigh the negative. So I can't imagine why there is a problem with any "uber-hack created without any all-in-one-uber-tools" ? |
Gavin
Posts: 71/799 |
Originally posted by hhallahh
That's yourFirst, I don't hack. I don't see how this is relevant at all to my observations of the community... I've been hanging out here for over a year, I've seen the same things in other contexts for other games... I don't need to actually fucking hack to know things about the hacking community. Knowledge of ASM does not teach you a damn thing about sociology or economics... as your existence obviously proves. The fact that I don't hack has little bearing on my observations. You can argue that I'm disconnected from the community or whatever, but.. I don't believe that's true. And it's certainly not a substitute for any kind of real counterargument.
In closing, I think I'll take some time later to make some fun MS Paint graphs of my points. Maybe a little economics lesson for you all too. Stay tuned.
are you kidding? how is it not relevant, it's the very subject about which we are talking  . Cool, you've been hanging out on a board for a year. Once again may i state that this board is anything but a true representation of the community. There was a time when it wasn't this way, but as of now this is a Board first, and a Romhacking site second.
You're right, my learning ASM doesn't teach me anything about Economics or Sociology... however my Economics, Sociology, Psychology, and AP Psychology classes sure as fuck did. 
more MS Paint fun? Cool, i've got a new one too:
 |
Dish
Posts: 95/596 |
Wrong. The precise definition of what constitutes a "good" hack is relative to the quality of other available hacks
That's bogus. What makes a good hack is fun. That's the only requirement. If a hack is fun, people will play it and love it. It doesn't matter how much/little they change... only the end result is important.
Now what makes it fun does somewhat relate to other existing hacks... but not in the way you're thinking. Part of what makes a hack fun is how unique it is. If your hack is just like every other hack... then it's probably not going to be perceived as fun and won't really be considered a "good" hack. It has to have something to it that's one of a kind. It doesn't HAVE to be asm changes... it could be something as simple as unique graphics. A good example of this is ZeldaC, which is still regarded as one of the greatest hacks around... I don't think it made any asm changes... it was just fun.
Now in the case of SMW and Lunar Magic.... if you put all this stuff into the editor and it becomes really easy to do all these massive changes, then the overall quality of hacks DOES go up... but at the same time... so does the requirement for a hack to be "good". This isn't a bad thing, it's just progress. Like I said in my previous post... when someone first does something new... it's awesome... and more and more people do it until it's normal and commonplace. Then someone does something else that's awesome.
If hacks consist of nothing but what can be done in a do-it-all editor with graphics and designs ripped from other games... they'll all just be carbon copies of each other. If you've played one, you've played them all.
Hence if other hacks raise the standard of "good" or "excellent" to a level too high for a person to put in the requisite amount of effort... then it's true that the person doesn't have the drive. They don't have the drive to meet the standards set by other hacks.
Then they don't have the drive to make a good hack. It's as simple as that. If you want to make "good" hacks... you'll have to find a way to make yours unique. You'll have to keep up with the progression.
Progression happens. The bar of what's "good" doesn't go up because of hacks... it goes up because people want something new. If people were restricted to change only what they could change with game specific utilities... rom hacking would be a bore both for the hackers and for the people that play the hacks. After a while... they'd all be the same.
Eh, poor logic. Basically comes down to: "If you don't make a good hack, you couldn't have made a good hack."
I was more trying to get at "If you don't want to put the effort to make your hack good, your hack won't be good". Good hacks aren't easy to make. If someone doesn't have the drive and determination to put the work necessary to make a good hack... then they're unable to make a good hack.
Which doesn't mean anything, because I'm saying that if there were better tools available, more people would make hacks.
And they'd all be boring.
If it took less effort to make a good hack, then more people would attempt to make a good hack, and some people would succeed, and hence we can say that those people could make good hacks under the appropriate circumstances.
I somewhat agree with this statement. If it were easier to make a hack... then yeah... more people would hack. I think LM is a great example of this. However... no matter what tools are available... it's never any easier to make a "good" hack.
Take any SMW hack as an example. Even a bad one. If that hack were to come out before Lunar Magic... it would be the greatest thing since sliced bread. But now... since Lunar Magic is out... and since there's a million other hacks... it's just like all the others.
Even though the hack itself is no different in each scenario... it's "good" in one, and not good in the other. This comes back around to my point of uniquness (is that a word?) and progression.
[snip]... you consider that prospective hackers could easily just work on SMW instead of SMB3 and use LM.
Now think about this. People make all these changes effortlessly to SMW and the hacks often go unnoticed. If the same changes were to be done to SMB3 instead the hack would be a lot "better", wouldn't you agree? Uniqueness... progression... |
knuck
Posts: 388/1818 |
If i get better grades than my classmate i will stop studying or else he will give up of school.  
Life isn't fair. Deal with it. |
hhallahh
Posts: 288/607 |
Parasyte
The answer to your question, "Is it worth the time and effort to make something this good?" is a resounding "YES!"
That's your subjective answer. Other people will have different answers. Some may even be different than yours, God forbid.
Disch
First of all... if someone isn't willing to put in the time and effort to make a good hack... it's because they don't have the drive... not because they're discouraged by other hacks.
Wrong. The precise definition of what constitutes a "good" hack is relative to the quality of other available hacks. Hence if other hacks raise the standard of "good" or "excellent" to a level too high for a person to put in the requisite amount of effort... then it's true that the person doesn't have the drive. They don't have the drive to meet the standards set by other hacks.
If you can't complete a hack because of the existance of another hack... then you COULDN'T make a good hack because you only have half of what it takes.
Eh, poor logic. Basically comes down to: "If you don't make a good hack, you couldn't have made a good hack." Which doesn't mean anything, because I'm saying that if there were better tools available, more people would make hacks. If it took less effort to make a good hack, then more people would attempt to make a good hack, and some people would succeed, and hence we can say that those people could make good hacks under the appropriate circumstances.
You're saying the community would be better if there were LESS good hacks?
It's a subjective judgement call as to whether someone like DD making a MA actually hurts the community overall. Personally, I don't believe it does... I just know that having hacks like DD without a tool as powerful for SMB3 as LM will tend to discourage other prospective hackers, especially when you consider that prospective hackers could easily just work on SMW instead of SMB3 and use LM. Now, if there are good tools for SMB3... great. The effect is much smaller. But there definately is an effect. So would something like MA hurt the SMB3 community? I'm not sure, because I think MA is so good for the SMB3 community that it may offset the harms it causes by discouraging people. I don't know enough to give a definitive answer, and I don't really care to.. I'm just outlining the effects of these things.
Gavin
You have not made a single valid point in the entirety of this whole thread. Furthermore, you don't (to my knowledge) even hack. You're opinion is therefore of no value to me. utterly worthless. I have only now realized this is not worth getting upset about. You have no real view of the 'community' anyhow.
First, I don't hack. I don't see how this is relevant at all to my observations of the community... I've been hanging out here for over a year, I've seen the same things in other contexts for other games... I don't need to actually fucking hack to know things about the hacking community. Knowledge of ASM does not teach you a damn thing about sociology or economics... as your existence obviously proves. The fact that I don't hack has little bearing on my observations. You can argue that I'm disconnected from the community or whatever, but.. I don't believe that's true. And it's certainly not a substitute for any kind of real counterargument.
In closing, I think I'll take some time later to make some fun MS Paint graphs of my points. Maybe a little economics lesson for you all too. Stay tuned. |
Gavin
Posts: 70/799 |
Originally posted by hhallahh
Idiot.
hah, says the kettle to the fucking pot.
You have not made a single valid point in the entirety of this whole thread. Furthermore, you don't (to my knowledge) even hack. You're opinion is therefore of no value to me. utterly worthless. I have only now realized this is not worth getting upset about. You have no real view of the 'community' anyhow.
two things i can point out:
[1] The SMW hacking forum on this board is not the 'community'
[2] This board is faaaar from being the 'community'
every small influx of hacks on this board has no bearing on any other hackers besides those who think that this micro-cosm is the entire hacking world.
Have a good one 
Edit: To answer the original question of this thread: No, i don't think Lunar Magic is a bad thing... but distorted persepectives are, learn that lesson kids |
Dish
Posts: 94/596 |
*Disch jumps in convo already in progress
Originally posted by hhallahh
It's not a question of: "Can I make something this good?" The question is, "Is it worth the time and effort to make something this good?"When you have the combination of:
a) Good hacks
b) Poor hacking tools (which makes it a long process to create good hacks)
People will probably not be drawn to your community and go somewhere else instead. Not necessarily cause they can't make a good hack, but because they don't feel that it's worth the required time/energy.
First of all... if someone isn't willing to put in the time and effort to make a good hack... it's because they don't have the drive... not because they're discouraged by other hacks. Hacks take a long time to complete. This is news to no one. I can speak from experience on this subject.... because I've taken up several hacking and homebrew projects and and finished a grand total of ZERO of them. It's not because I didn't think the effort was worth it... or because the awesomeness of other hacks were discouraging... it's because I didn't have the drive. Using other hacks as an excuse is a cop-out.
And what's this about "Poor hacking tools"? Surely you're not talking about SMB3. NES has the best hacking tools around. Not to mention there's like what... 5 SMB3 level editors or something crazy like that... and all sorts of info at the hacker's disposal.
NES games are the easiest to comprehensivly hack (SMW possibly being the 1 and only exception). If you say otherwise you're a fool.
The best you can do is argue that being competitive is a bad attitude, but like I said, even people with bad attitudes can make good hacks. Really.
Well having the skills to make a good hack is one thing. Having the drive is the other half. If you can't complete a hack because of the existance of another hack... then you COULDN'T make a good hack because you only have half of what it takes.
That aside... listen to what you just said. You're saying the community would be better if there were LESS good hacks?
Exceptions like you are not many, I believe. But it's impossible to really know, since you can't take a tally of how many people get discouraged.. they tend not to be around.
The number of people encouraged outweighs the number of people discouraged. I idle on IRC a lot... and you'd be suprised how many people are in there asking asm questions and trying to develope 'uber' skills. The current "uber-hackers" were just making the path. It's happened before.. and it's happening again. At first.. people just did simple text/graphics edits.... the some 'uber' hacker actually changed the levels! So then everyone started changing them. Then enemy characteristics and other data got changed. Now everyone does it.
Asm changes are the next step. We're not covering any new ground here. This has all happened time and time again. Yeah... a few people won't be able to keep up with the pace... but more people will be able to. And the next generation of hacks will be better because of it. In essence, if you tell people to stand still... you're just holding back the "community" you're trying to help.
So you can stand there any try to prevent it... but it's already happening. DD's done it with SMB3... Para's done it with Metroid... Nighthawk and myself have sort of done it with FF1... more and more people are getting into it. |
Schnauzer
Posts: 40/148 |
Lunar MAgic is GREAT and now I'm almos drunk jajajaja. |
Parasyte
Posts: 92/514 |
The answer to your question, "Is it worth the time and effort to make something this good?" is a resounding "YES!" How else do you plan to equal a damn good hack without putting as much (or more) time and effort into it as another author? Leech off other people's hard work? Well, probably, considering you were wanting "more this, more that, more features" in Lunar Magic. Which would essentially be leeching off FuSoYa's hard work.
So yes, it is worth it. Whether some hackers want to put the time and effort into it is up to them; not DahrkDaiz or I, or anyone else, for that matter. |
hhallahh
Posts: 287/607 |
What do you, "if they could have made good hacks?" Obviously, if they were discouraged by a good hack, they themselves would feel they could not make a good hack.
Or, rather, they themselves feel that they could not make a good hack given the amount of effort it requires. You people have yet to really respect the economic side of the argument. It's not a question of: "Can I make something this good?" The question is, "Is it worth the time and effort to make something this good?" When you have the combination of:
a) Good hacks
b) Poor hacking tools (which makes it a long process to create good hacks)
People will probably not be drawn to your community and go somewhere else instead. Not necessarily cause they can't make a good hack, but because they don't feel that it's worth the required time/energy.
Please try to grasp that idea. I've said it several times, but I keep getting the same responses that don't really address the point.. except to say, "If that's the case, they shouldn't be hacking to begin with!" Which is stupid.
As I said earlier, ROM hacking isn't about competiting against others. I can't even count how many times the guys at TEK have gone on about how ROM hacking should be fun.
Yes, ROM hacking should be fun, it shouldn't be about competition, etc... but guess what? It often is. And I'm sure I'll hear about how it isn't from people who... enjoy ROM hacking (like you and DD.) The best you can do is argue that being competitive is a bad attitude, but like I said, even people with bad attitudes can make good hacks. Really.
Whoa, hold up there buddy. I came on to the scene about 2 years ago and I started out like everyone else did: nothing.
Yea, I know there are exceptions to what I said. The "people who love hacking or whatever". I just didn't feel like writing in something that basically said, "My argument is right except when it isn't."  Exceptions like you are not many, I believe. But it's impossible to really know, since you can't take a tally of how many people get discouraged.. they tend not to be around.
And if so many are discouraged by uber-hackers, why are there so many shitty hacks still?
There aren't many shitty and complete hacks are there that have come out, I believe... I'm most familiar with SMW, and I know that hacks that look shitty are abandoned 90+% of the time. Largely because authors realize they're shitty.. which basically equals getting discouraged. (And please don't say it'd be a good thing if people get discouraged, then, because it stops shitty hacks. Often it does.. but sometimes it'd stop good hacks too.)
OMG daiz stop hoarding the secret knowledge and keeping it from everyone else and using it to make yourself more l337 than I!
Idiot. |
Gavin
Posts: 69/799 |
OMG daiz stop hoarding the secret knowledge and keeping it from everyone else and using it to make yourself more l337 than I!
 |
Imajin
Posts: 349/452 |
...Yea, this is the elitist bullshit attitude that a lot of people seem to have. We're not better off without them, if they could have made good hacks. That's the bottom line....
So you're saying that people who make awesome hacks, like DD's MA, should stop making thier hacks above the otehr hacks and stop trying to excel, so these people wont say "Crap, it looks like taht hack took a lot of work! I want to be cool like that person, but dont want to do all that work... *quits*" Or whatever... |
DahrkDaiz
Posts: 214/885 |
Originally posted by hhallahh
any hacker who has a choice between hacking SMB3 or SMW, at this moment in time, would almost surely choose SMW... and the only reason they wouldn't would be because the SMW hacking community is sufficiently "saturated" with hackers at the moment. The only reason they wouldn't would be if:
a) They have connections to the SMB3 hacking community to begin with
b) They already know some ASM, or they're interesting in learning ASM in addition to hacking (and as an end, and not a means to better hacking)
Whoa, hold up there buddy. I came on to the scene about 2 years ago and I started out like everyone else did: nothing. I had no special connections with anyone, no sepcial powers or had already knew ASM. I could have chose to hack SMW, but I chose SMB3, why? Because I love the game, not the choice in editors. I started out doing what every newbie does: playing with the editor and doing what I could, the best that I could. As proof, you can download my first attempt at an SMB3 hack: http://www.geocities.com/dahrkdaiz/v_58.zip That proves I had no exclusive knowledge, I was no better off than anyone else who's hacked SMB3.
After I was done with that hack, I scrapped it and saw Acmlm's hack. Did it discourage me? Hell no. It made me think the very same thing Parasyte did: "If Acmlm can do all that with SMB3, imagine what _I_ could do!"
I started to play with tools available to me, which were available to everyone else. As time went on, I started to learn ASM and getting better at rom hacking in general. Ask Para, he helped me a few times with specific questions about the NES hardware and ASM (no, he didn't teach me ASM either, he merely answered questions). I started to find data myself using what I have learned.
SMB3 hacking community? What SMB3 hacking community? I _AM_ the SMB3 hacking community (I know this is elitist, but everyone knows who to come to for SMB3 questions). It's not exclusive knowledge I have, I share it with everyone. The hacks I did in Mario Adventure are open game for anybody that can decipher the code and understand ASM, and people have done this. Not everyone has what it takes to learn ASM, and that's not due to uber-hackers, that's just do the the fact that rom-hacking isn't a "equal abilities" hobby. In any hobby, you have those that are bad, good and those who excel. As Parasyte said, anyone who's discouraged by the uber-hacks are just out to get attention without working as hard as the people who are doing the uber-hacks themselves.
And if so many are discouraged by uber-hackers, why are there so many shitty hacks still? |
Parasyte
Posts: 91/514 |
What do you, "if they could have made good hacks?" Obviously, if they were discouraged by a good hack, they themselves would feel they could not make a good hack. Or rather, a good hack which could "compete" even though this is not a competative sport. That kind of attitude is not wanted nor needed.
Also, I don't feel that saying "get rid of the garbage" is an elitist thing to say. If I were to have said, "get rid of everyone who doesn't fit int the catagory of 'uber-hacker'." Well, that would be a bit different, right? When it comes right down to it, even the average hackers want to get rid of the bad ones.
Going back to the Zelda vs Metroid thing, why is that any different from Mario 3 vs Mario 3? Sure, Zelda and Metroid are different games, but that's where differences end. It's still ROM hacking, and I was still inspired. If you want to get back into the competition bit, I'd advise not to. As I said earlier, ROM hacking isn't about competiting against others. I can't even count how many times the guys at TEK have gone on about how ROM hacking should be fun. |
hhallahh
Posts: 286/607 |
well, that guy is an idiot (or rather his attitude is idiodic), and obviously doesn't have what it takes.
You don't know that. Although I'll grant you that he didn't sound very smart.
using your logic, that person would be too discouraged by olympic athletes to ever move more than an inch.
No, he'd be too discouraged by olympic athletes to try out for the olympics. Good analogy, though. I mean, hell.. I know I'm too discouraged by olympic athletes to try out for the olympics. I guess I just have a terrible attitude, right?
Nobody sets out to discourage others, and it's both rude and rediculous to accuse someone who's just making things they enjoy and sharing them with people who will enjoy it of "setting back the community".
No. If it's true, it's neither. Feel free to argue whether it's true or not, but don't act like it's insulting for the question to be raised in the first place.
I mean EXTENSIVELY. That hack never discouraged me. I could bet a large sum of money that it never discouraged anyone else I know, given that I had any money ... But rather than discouraging me, I was inspired. "Hell, if someone can do that to Zelda, I wonder what I could do to Metroid?" I thought to myself. Turns out there's a lot I can do with it. But I know there will be a huge amount of work involved. I certainly would not be bothering with it if I did not enjoy the work.
That's kind of a different scenario. You were inspired to hack a different game, and hence you weren't really competing with the uberhack or whatever.
It's the people who do not enjoy the work so much as the enjoy the attention it garners... Those people will be discouraged. And truthfully, we're better off without them, anyhow.
Yea, this is the elitist bullshit attitude that a lot of people seem to have. We're not better off without them, if they could have made good hacks. That's the bottom line. And I think it's just stupid to imply that people who wouldn't be willing to put in insane amounts of energy wouldn't make good hacks anyways. I think there's a mere substitution effect in the community - any hacker who has a choice between hacking SMB3 or SMW, at this moment in time, would almost surely choose SMW... and the only reason they wouldn't would be because the SMW hacking community is sufficiently "saturated" with hackers at the moment. The only reason they wouldn't would be if:
a) They have connections to the SMB3 hacking community to begin with
b) They already know some ASM, or they're interesting in learning ASM in addition to hacking (and as an end, and not a means to better hacking)
As such, people are "discouraged" from SMB3 and "encouraged" to SMW. And why shouldn't they be? Just because it takes much less energy to make a good SMW hack? That's such a terrible, cynical thing to do? Even talented hackers are affected by this substitution effect. I mean, ask Golden Yoshi or FPI or someone why they're hacking SMW instead of SMB3 or whatever other game.. if they said it was because of LM, would you call them lazy bastards who the community would be better off without? No. |
Parasyte
Posts: 90/514 |
These so-called "uber-hackers" won't be able to harm the community in any way.
Perhaps you're just cynical by nature, hhallahh. That's the only conclusion I can come to.
As for progress in moderation, think about where the community has been, and where it's going. It started as a few simple graphic hacks. Later it was level redesigning and translation. And most recently, program overhauls. What's the next logical step? Bigger and better overhauls of everything? Sure, why not. It's all progress in moderation.
As an example of progress in moderation, a man didn't just land on the moon one day, and made everyone think, "Wow! No one's even invented the airplane yet, and here we've sent a guy to the moon!" Instead, it took approximately 50 years from the time the Wright brothers tested thier first successful plane design to the time Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin walked on the moon.
Now if you go back a few years in ROM hacking's short history, perhaps you'll recall the release of Zelda Challenge. It is one of the greatest hacks ever created. Not because it contains a ton of assembly hacks, or was built on "exclusive knowledge" (because neither of those held any part in the development of the hack) But just because it's very well-designed, and modified extensively. I mean EXTENSIVELY. That hack never discouraged me. I could bet a large sum of money that it never discouraged anyone else I know, given that I had any money ... But rather than discouraging me, I was inspired. "Hell, if someone can do that to Zelda, I wonder what I could do to Metroid?" I thought to myself. Turns out there's a lot I can do with it. But I know there will be a huge amount of work involved. I certainly would not be bothering with it if I did not enjoy the work.
It's the people who do not enjoy the work so much as the enjoy the attention it garners... Those people will be discouraged. And truthfully, we're better off without them, anyhow.
Now, getting back to Lunar Magic. Atma: what good is a program that no one knows how to use? |
Atma X
Posts: 408/801 |
Well said Gavin.
I completely agree  |
Gavin
Posts: 68/799 |
hhallahh:
Progress is moderation is good.. having uberhackers that no one can hope to match is generally bad. I remember in one of DahrkDaiz's threads, there was a guy who said something along the lines of, "Your hack is so good that I should just give up mine." It was very tempting for me to just post, "See? See?" But I didn't. And feel free to argue that that person "shouldn't be hacking to begin with"... but I'm just saying that it goes to show how what I say works.
well, that guy is an idiot (or rather his attitude is idiodic), and obviously doesn't have what it takes.
If fucking pictures of hack make you say to yourself, "oh jeez, i can't do that at this exact moment in time. whelp, time to give up", then you don't have what it takes to...well, do just about anything. I'd be suprised he even had the energy it takes to get out of bed in the morning... because someone can run faster than he can walk to his keyboard. using your logic, that person would be too discouraged by olympic athletes to ever move more than an inch.
and using that analogy, what do olympic hopefuls say when they see the top of the top, the best of the best, setting and breaking new record?? they say to themselves "shit, they're really great. If i keep training, let's see if i can do better!"
if seeing greatness discourages you, then you can never acheive it: and that's what i mean when i keep saying "you don't have what it takes".
but maybe you're thinking "well i don't want to be great, i just enjoy making my hacks and sharing them with friends on this board", well that's cool too, because that's exactly what those people with the "exclusive knowledge" are doing. They make hacks because they love the games they hack, and know that if they share their work someone else out there may gain some small amount of satisfaction from it too. From one gamer to another.
Nobody sets out to discourage others, and it's both rude and rediculous to accuse someone who's just making things they enjoy and sharing them with people who will enjoy it of "setting back the community". |
Atma X
Posts: 405/801 |
I think that saying LM was a bad idea just because some idiots don't know how to use it, is like saying that ANY Program is a bad thing, because the're are many programs that a lot people don't know how to use, and never will know (no matter how stupid a person is or not, there's always going to be some program that they'll try to use, and won't be able to figure out how the fuck it works, no matter how hard they try).
In other words: Some will create a bunch of crap, and some won't. You can make the program itself idiot-proof, but you can't make the stuff that is produced idiot-proof, because it's up to the creator (hacker) to make the art (the hack in this case), other wise there wouldn't be a point to the program in the first place.
This is the way humans work: Each person is different, and will do different things (and some will do stupid things no matter how many times you smack them on the head for it  ),... learn to live with it |
hhallahh
Posts: 285/607 |
Euclid:
A lots of people hack games because they enjoy it. I for one don't care if people don't recognise my work. I hack because i enjoy learning how people back then program their rom to work with the machine.
I think a fair number of designers hack because they enjoy designing.. not because they enjoy hacking. Hence, too much hacking and not enough designing would obviously be an unsatisfactory experience.
and you can just say those people are lazy and don't want to learn/experiment.
And I'd call them efficient. You'd really call someone lazy is he chose to hack SMW over SMB3 because SMW is obviously the more expedient choice? You'd be an idiot. It'd be like calling someone lazy because he chooses to work at the digging company where he gets to dig with a shovel vs. his own bare hands.
Gavin
If you don't have the dedication to learn to hack to impliment your amazing levels... well, then you should'nt be here.
Gushy, moral speech is worthless. You wouldn't tell someone that they shouldn't have made a hack if they would've been unwilling to make it if they had had to put into 10x or 100x more effort. It's just stupid.
And actually it's not rediculous to do things from scratch.
Good for you. However, if it were the case the everyone has to start from scratch, there would be a lot fewer (quality) hackers here. Simple fact. But I guess that'd be okay, since they wouldn't deserve to be here or something?
i sersiouly do not understand how you keep saying that progress in the romhacking field is bad for romhacking... stagnation would kill it, make everything on the same shitty level. progress makes new and exciting things... yes progress is bad??
Progress is moderation is good.. having uberhackers that no one can hope to match is generally bad. I remember in one of DahrkDaiz's threads, there was a guy who said something along the lines of, "Your hack is so good that I should just give up mine." It was very tempting for me to just post, "See? See?" But I didn't. And feel free to argue that that person "shouldn't be hacking to begin with"... but I'm just saying that it goes to show how what I say works. |
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labmaster
