| User | Post |
Error
Posts: 53/54 |
Haha; I just think it's fucking funny people go to linux expecting a windows-like enviroment.
If you want point and click happy go lucky; not learning a damn thing. USE WINDOWS.
Unless you are massively un-happy with windows and are willing to devote alot of time learning a new OS from the inside out to use it properly.. USE WINDOWS. |
Ailure
Posts: 1609/11162 |
I like how fedora works with the system tools, it's Gui and it is "point and click" but you must give a root password. So the security is still there. 
The trick with the root password is having one who is easy enough to remember, but so hard enough that's it is almost impossible to figure it out.  |
Kasumi-Astra
Posts: 342/1867 |
Exactly. Just because you point and click, it doesn't make you the generic AOL user.
The reason why Linux doesn't have many viruses is the open source nature of the system, and the fact that a virus maker would not achieve much coverage by releasing a virus for it. |
neotransotaku
Posts: 565/4016 |
Originally posted by Error
Point and click installs is how viruses happen...
you're wrong
clicking blindly (i.e. without a consciouse) allows viruses to spread
diligent coding and luck are the building blocks of viruses
and people with too much time on their hands and/or having personal vandettas are the breeding grounds for viruses |
Error
Posts: 52/54 |
Originally posted by Kasumi-Astra
It's exactly that sort of attitude that annoys me about some Linux users. More point and click installing would not hurt at all. They wouldn't take away your precious console.
User friendliness is a good thing. If you want to label me as a "lowest common user", then I'll label you as a patronising Linux elitest. It's pretty sad that there are people who don't believe in helping other people out.
I'm glad to help somone learn the terminal.
Point and click installs is how viruses happen...
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HyperLamer
Posts: 600/8210 |
If you don't like the Windoze interface, you can swap it. That's not the reason to use Linux. The reason is security. Reliability. Knowing you're not being spied on.  More GUI-based stuff couldn't hurt, in fact making Linux easy to use is just what M$ needs to take a serious plunge.  |
Ailure
Posts: 1575/11162 |
Yep, there is nothing wrong with GUI based tools. I like how much you can do without using a terminal on some distros.
Thought it can be still a good idea learning how to use the terminal, especially if something goes really wrong and you can only boot in "text mode" or what it is called. |
neotransotaku
Posts: 559/4016 |
maybe the rift between such users is to get away from the windows look and feel? after all, maybe that is the true fundamental reason why linux users use linux and not windows, or something like that...
in some ways, I guess there are individuals out there who like to do things the hard way... |
Kasumi-Astra
Posts: 336/1867 |
It's exactly that sort of attitude that annoys me about some Linux users. More point and click installing would not hurt at all. They wouldn't take away your precious console.
User friendliness is a good thing. If you want to label me as a "lowest common user", then I'll label you as a patronising Linux elitest. It's pretty sad that there are people who don't believe in helping other people out.
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Error
Posts: 50/54 |
Point in click means LOSS OF CONTROL.
The day linux turns to that is the day I look for an alternative.
Linux was never meant to serve to lowest common user who needs to use point and click.
If you need point and click DONT USE LINUX. Use windows.
Simple as that. |
Ailure
Posts: 1552/11162 |
That's actually is a good idea. I also should buy a book about Linux.
I can work with the terminals, but I want to mess with the workings of Linux. And i'm tired on using internet all the time even if I find the answer, it takes time...
One thing that is not true is that every programs needs a terminal to install, I have been able installing one program with using the terminal at all. But that was the only one.  |
Kasumi-Astra
Posts: 332/1867 |
Precisely why I was talking about migrating to Linux. First impressions are critical.
Of course Linux is easy with UNIX experience... It's not just coincidence that they have a lot in common. The console uses UNIX script, am I correct?
I haven't thought of buying a companion book though... Might just try to work that into my budget... |
FreeDOS
Posts: 416/1657 |
Originally posted by Kasumi-Astra
I tend to feel patronised when people say that using Linux is easy. It's freaking hard when you start out. Just because I can't figure out how to install a driver, it shouldn't make me a pleb.
It's freaking easy with UNIX experience. My grandfather had about 20 years of experience with UNIX, and to him Linux seemed just the same.
People like me, however, need a book. I bought Linux for Dummies 2nd Edition way back when Red Hat 5 was new. Just get a book and learn it. That's how most OSes work, actually. You think Windows is easy becase you've had previous Windows experience. |
Kasumi-Astra
Posts: 329/1867 |
If one more person says that migrating to Linux is easy, then that's one more person that needs tape slapping on their mouth
If installing drivers was a clicking affair, then installing modem drivers on SuSE would've been easy. Unfortunately, Linux is catering for a small group users when it comes to the desktop.
I tend to feel patronised when people say that using Linux is easy. It's freaking hard when you start out. Just because I can't figure out how to install a driver, it shouldn't make me a pleb.
Demanding point and click installs isn't asking much, and would make Linux a far more attractive a proposition. |
HyperLamer
Posts: 565/8210 |
I think the idea of a good GUI is that all tasks should be easy to do. Some things should be restricted for security reasons, but otherwise, deliberately making something hard to do is going against the purpose of making a good GUI.
And I'd do run/Notepad because Run is handy and I'm used to typing Notepad.
[edit] Oh, and @Tomguy:
Intel system with onboard GFX and/or Celeron and/or Rambus? YES. Shitty apps? YES. I'll admit my computer sucks, but there's no reason for Windoze to gradually slow down or stop working, unless its resource management is stupid. |
neotransotaku
Posts: 536/4016 |
But then you still have the old ones wasting space. Plus guess what you get if you run them from a Run prompt?
you lose more space from slack in addition, why would someone who doesn't want to use notepad do run->"notepad"?
However there should be a way if you can provide verification, the way most webmail does.
webmail provides this type if verification because they are based on the web--they do not spend the money on having people sit around and help people troubleshoot their webmail. Can you name one webmail provider who has such people?
Not true. At school I successfully denied access to my account to all administrators without admin access by simply changing the policies.
this would never happen in a corporate setting...
Most people don't need to replace their car's starter. Should that be impossible too?
the same argument can be said for changing a car's transmission. but anyways, in User Interface design, tasks that are less used should be hard to do and figure out and tasks that are done often should be easy to do. i agree that recovering a password is somethign that is hard to do, if it was easy to recover a password, then think about how easy people who use Windows could compromise corporate networks? |
HyperLamer
Posts: 551/8210 |
Originally posted by neotransotaku
It just gets annoying when you want to replace the included Notepad or Calculator apps
replacing calculator is as simple as replacing the shortcut for it
replacing notepad...just rebind file associations or just use the context menu to load the program you want
But then you still have the old ones wasting space. Plus guess what you get if you run them from a Run prompt?
What happens if you need to because someone forgot their password and want it changed?
If you are running one HD, that is the case. But think about this from the corporate perspective. Your "data files" are never locally at your computer--they are always on a file server somewhere. Thats means if you forget your password, your data can still be recoverable because the system admin can just change the users who can access the folder which contains all your stuff.
One more thing, there is a reason why password recovery is a hard task: because 95% of people never have to do such a thing. Why make hard tasks easy if a majority of people never need it?
I agree here, passwords should be secure and hard to recover. However there should be a way if you can provide verification, the way most webmail does.
Windows does not let you view anyone's directory/files if the user did not allow it.
well..duh. The only way an admin can't view a directory is if the admin is taken out of the "privledged group" and the only way to do that is to be an admin. So I ask you, what admin is stupid enough to remove himself from the "privledged group"?
Not true. At school I successfully denied access to my account to all administrators without admin access by simply changing the policies. (They made me change it back though. )
You shouldn't be restricted from uninstalling any built-in Windows component.
essentially you are saying that if someone wants to uninstall explorer.exe, they should be able to? one more thing, how many percent of windows users need to do such a thing? very little my friend... and in business, you tailor needs to the benefit of many, not the benefit of one
Most people don't need to replace their car's starter. Should that be impossible too? |
Ailure
Posts: 1417/11162 |
I uinstalled the programs that I could uinstall. Why should I have them on my harddrive if I don't use them? Sure they take very little space but then... why not?
And Linux, well I have it installed on my other computer now. I compare it with Windows and tell my own experince with it... |
Error
Posts: 35/54 |
Haha I've experienced similar troubles with XP's "admin" group.
I wanted to remove ALL traces of a certain driver but XP would just add it back when I would delete it..
"admin" foot! I want to be root! > |
neotransotaku
Posts: 525/4016 |
It just gets annoying when you want to replace the included Notepad or Calculator apps
replacing calculator is as simple as replacing the shortcut for it
replacing notepad...just rebind file associations or just use the context menu to load the program you want
What happens if you need to because someone forgot their password and want it changed?
If you are running one HD, that is the case. But think about this from the corporate perspective. Your "data files" are never locally at your computer--they are always on a file server somewhere. Thats means if you forget your password, your data can still be recoverable because the system admin can just change the users who can access the folder which contains all your stuff.
One more thing, there is a reason why password recovery is a hard task: because 95% of people never have to do such a thing. Why make hard tasks easy if a majority of people never need it?
Windows does not let you view anyone's directory/files if the user did not allow it.
well..duh. The only way an admin can't view a directory is if the admin is taken out of the "privledged group" and the only way to do that is to be an admin. So I ask you, what admin is stupid enough to remove himself from the "privledged group"?
You shouldn't be restricted from uninstalling any built-in Windows component.
essentially you are saying that if someone wants to uninstall explorer.exe, they should be able to? one more thing, how many percent of windows users need to do such a thing? very little my friend... and in business, you tailor needs to the benefit of many, not the benefit of one
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