Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - Rom Hacking - New NES gaming console.
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spoondiddly
Posts: 18/22 |
I seriously doubt they did a wink's worth of actual new development. It is far more likely they took the existing documents out there, built a little system around a NES-on-a-chip, and figured there was no point removing any existing feature of the hardware they're using. |
LocalH
Posts: 37/46 |
Not really, no, composite sucks ass. Even the damned Atari 2600 can do S-Video, but the NES is forever relegated to shitty composite output. This is even more important with the amount of HD sets/monitors that don't do a good job even with exceptional video sources, which means that on those sets, a real NES will look absolutely atrocious. If they've truly cloned an NES with such a level of compatibility as they claim, then the NEX's output will look just as shitty. If you think the Genesis' composite output is bad, I feel that the NES's is even worse.
I still don't buy it. The game code has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not the game will work with a PPU that is identical to the usual PPU with the exception of the video signal it outputs. If they spent the money and time to design custom hardware, then they could have went to the trouble of making a 99% compatible PPU that outputs RGB. Once you have an RGB signal, you can easily get both S-Video and composite (this is the way most 16-bit and newer systems do it anyway). |
HyperLamer
Posts: 6994/8210 |
I think what they mean is the games aren't designed to take advantage of S-Video, so they wouldn't really look any better, and to add compatibility would cost too much. Really, isn't A/V good enough for NES?  |
LocalH
Posts: 36/46 |
Originally posted by HyperHacker
Yes, they could convert the raw image to S-video, but because the graphics are such low quality it wouldn't look any better and would cost more for the hardware.
My point is, they say that their NES clone hardware is custom - so why the hell couldn't they just make a fully compatible PPU that output RGB instead of composite? I understand that a stock NES PPU only outputs composite, but a custom part wouldn't necessarily have to. In fact, rather than going to the trouble of extending the hardware further than NES specs, I think they would get more sales if they kept the hardware capabilities stock and instead improved the video output.
I know for a fact that it has nothing to do with the "software", as they put it, because I've seen screens of modded NES boxes with the few RGB-capable PPUs, and the software worked fine (other than some small problems here and there, and some pallet differences). If it was anything to do with the software then those screens would not have been possible. |
BGNG
Posts: 255/276 |
The point is that they said "the old software won't support S-video." That's a hardware issue, not software. That "reason" is bogus. |
HyperLamer
Posts: 6991/8210 |
Yes, they could convert the raw image to S-video, but because the graphics are such low quality it wouldn't look any better and would cost more for the hardware. |
LocalH
Posts: 34/46 |
To me, it would depend on how it was implemented. If it was a separate "mode", where original carts run in high compability, then it wouldn't bother me - basically, if it's set up like the Commodore 128 with it's C64 mode and near universal compatibility.
I was looking at their FAQ, and saw one thing that is bullshit and one thing that answers a question I saw written here. First, the bullshit:
Q: Will it support S-Video?
A: No, because the old software won't support S-video. We could have converted the AV outputs to S-video but it would have added a lot of cost and given no benefit to the video quality.
Now, I'm no NES expert, but it's my understanding that, as with most systems, the software doesn't have anything to do with the actual video encoding (even with the 2600 you're dealing with pixels rather than actually directly generating the video signal as sent to the TV). If they did indeed custom design their own clone hardware instead of using a common NOAC, then they very well should have been able to make an RGB output on their take of the PPU, and from there easily get S-Video and composite. For this reason alone, I won't buy one.
Q: How does the stereo sound feature work?
A: NES games have mono soundtracks. The NEX does have a right and left channel but sends the mono signal out both left and right channels. This being said… the console is built to support stereo output for future plans...
There's your answer on the stereo function - with original software it's supposed to be split mono and not "stereo". |
HyperLamer
Posts: 6984/8210 |
Well just take a look at the controller mapping. It's exactly the same as NES, with an added second register to tell when L or R are pressed and to tell X/A and Y/B apart. |
spoondiddly
Posts: 17/22 |
Originally posted by HyperHacker
Heck, the original SNES seems to have been designed to be NES-compatible. So it wouldn't be at all difficult. Patents could present a problem, though.
Come to think of it, how much new hardware was actually in those aftermarket SNES->NES converters?
It is very frightening just how much of the original NES was incorporated into the SNES. They must have at least concidered backward-compatability - or they're just ridiculously cheap ;*) |
HyperLamer
Posts: 6889/8210 |
Heck, the original SNES seems to have been designed to be NES-compatible. So it wouldn't be at all difficult. Patents could present a problem, though. |
EverdredReturns
Posts: 17/19 |
A few things:
- Is it really stereo sound, or just dual mono? I know you can hack an NES for faux-stereo by splitting the sound channels, but did they do that?
- It's interesting for me if only for the ability to play Famicom games, too. I just hope they support external sound well.
- I would understand the price a bit more if it included component video or s-video out. Yeah, the NES creates composite video and nothing better, I know, and trying to make it better would cause palette discrepancies, but maybe they could have had an option for adjusting the palette?
- A SNES/NES combo system would be sweet, but from what I hear Messiah's system was feasible in part due to the expiration of a 20 year patent on the NES hardware, so if the same were to apply for the SNES it'd be about 6 years before we see such a thing. And by then we'd have the Revolution and all of that, and may even be on to the generation of consoles after the upcoming ones. |
TheGamerDude
Posts: 5/5 |
I hope Messiah can make a disk system for the Generation Nex. and I hope the Messiah version of the disk system will last longer than the Nintendo one. |
spoondiddly
Posts: 11/22 |
I'm with Hyperhacker. A new SNES would be far cooler. A SNES/NES hybrid though - I'd buy that.
There are plenty of more interesting things to upgrade than the size of the pallettes. Besides, there are workarounds for that, such as this:
http://nesdev.parodius.com/paltest.zip
and this:
http://nesdev.parodius.com/rstrdemo.zip
or actually, any of the transparency or interlacing demos on nesdev
Incorporating the extra fds sound channel? Heck, I'd love to see a NES clone that can run the psuedo-bitmapped stuff that the original couldn't. But seriously... more colors and rumbling controllers aren't really that great. There are a lot more useful upgrades that can be made that could benefit existing games, such as concocting a method around the sprites-per-line issues. That drives me nuts in Bubble Bobble.
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AP
Posts: 86/333 |
I think those new 8 color games for the new NES should at least have 4 color versions, like the original NES. I still can't go to the article, though. Anyone knows why? |
HyperLamer
Posts: 6664/8210 |
Yes, at least call it an 'NES-Compatible' system, not an NES remake. An NES remake would have 4 colours and mono sound. (And I still say a SNES remake would be far cooler.  ) |
Bit-Blade
Posts: 340/445 |
Surpringly, I'm going to side with Disch and the purists on this one. What the hell! If they are going to make a 'retro' system, brining back the nes, then they shouldn't upgrade it. That totally defeats the whole POINT of it being the nes or even making 'new' nes games. All this is is a souped up nes, the SOUPER NES.... I would have loved to have seen brand new NES games but this... wtf. |
beneficii
Posts: 444/567 |
Originally posted by Dr. Mario
Well I think the whole point of this Console undertaking is to make a new console. Nintendo already made the NES, so what would be the point of making it again? They're making thier own console. It's not an NES and they know that. It's supposed to be like an NES and is compatible with it's games, but it's still not supposed to be the same thing. I think it would actually be dumber if they were just building an NES console, like what would be the point? If I wanted an NES I would just go to the Record Exchange and drop the $50 for a top loader.
I wouldn't think it stupid if they started producing NES's again. In fact, we probably would need somebody to produce them in the long run, because otherwise there would end up being very few functional ones left. But yeah, I don't think they need to make a new console and call it the NES when it very clearly is not. |
Dr. Mario
Posts: 243/262 |
Well I think the whole point of this Console undertaking is to make a new console. Nintendo already made the NES, so what would be the point of making it again? They're making thier own console. It's not an NES and they know that. It's supposed to be like an NES and is compatible with it's games, but it's still not supposed to be the same thing. I think it would actually be dumber if they were just building an NES console, like what would be the point? If I wanted an NES I would just go to the Record Exchange and drop the $50 for a top loader. |
Dish
Posts: 543/596 |
bah
I posted a reply on that 1up page (even had to register for it) which basically outlined all the points I made in my prior post but went into much more detail.
They didn't even upload it. I figured I'd allow them time, but it's been like 4 days -- I doubt they're going to put it up. My reply wasn't rude or anything, and I didn't even try to make the thing sound bad -- I just pointed out some problems I would potentially have if I got it. Pffft.
I guess by "Write your own feedback" they really mean "only write feedback if you're going to talk about how awesome this thing is" -- seeing as how every other feedback post on there talks about how much the console rules.
That site is officially stupid. |
AP
Posts: 83/333 |
I seem to have trouble loading the article for some reason...  Anyone has this problem? |
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hukka
