Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - World Affairs / Debate - Life after death ? Death after life ?
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Shane -26-
Posts: 181/239 |
Originally posted by Cruel Justice
Basically, you're buried, your body bloats up like a balloon from all the moisture and humidity, the maggots and things nibble on you for awhile, then you shrivel up and your eyes turn black, and your flesh finally breaks down and all the elements from your body goes down to the dirt. (sarcasm)Ah, isn't that lovely?
Hmmm....that thought is going to haunt me for a couple of hours. Interesting though. |
Cruel Justice
Posts: 1344/1384 |
Basically, you're buried, your body bloats up like a balloon from all the moisture and humidity, the maggots and things nibble on you for awhile, then you shrivel up and your eyes turn black, and your flesh finally breaks down and all the elements from your body goes down to the dirt. (sarcasm)Ah, isn't that lovely? |
Slay
Posts: 333/339 |
The Dracoon says...
A passive approached to everything, is just to not worry about it till you die, then decide. This is probably MY personal favorite, because it allows you to live freely. The only thing I'll regret about my life is that I don't know whats comming before it ends.
Some say, "Live every day as if it were your last." I say, "Live your life as if it's already ended." It worked for Spike... |
Clockworkz
Posts: 1952/2002 |
I'm one of the few who does believe in Reincarnation. The thought of dying, and never living again is just... a real mind job, you know? I like the idea, I don't care if you do not. It's my beliefs, I'm entitled to them, just as much as you all are entitled to yours  |
Ares
Posts: 47/47 |
man, some of you guys, you all seem angry.... this is beginning to look less like a debate and more like a angst throwing contest. Remember this is a place for debate and rhetoric, not displaying our personal grudges for everyone to see, among other things it is self-defeating. chill guys, chill. |
Arwon
Posts: 502/506 |
I'm pretty sure this is what happens when you die. |
Shane -26-
Posts: 131/239 |
I sort of have two theorys about this. 1: When we die, we just die. It is the same as going to sleep just forever. 2: We are born again as someone else. I find it hard to choose which I believe in more. |
Ares
Posts: 45/47 |
Alright, I checked out this fella's ariticle and although interesting, it is incorrect. Make no mistake, I am the "clearing up" person around here. okay, first off:
"Many verses in the Bible clearly state a difference between Hades and Hell"
You are correct sir! but this has nothing to do with the topic at hand:
From your submitted article: "Hell is not Hades. A careful study of the Scriptures will reveal that Hades in the New Testament is the same place as Sheol in the Old Testament (Psalms 49:15)." Once again, correct.
"Hades (or Sheol) was the holding place for the spirits of the dead who awaited their resurrection, judgment, and ultimate consignment to Heaven or Hell."
Once agian correct...but not "before the cross" actually according to Revelations (paraphraseing) but until the end times and the souls change in fate is indeed caused by the cross.
"According to Jesus' story of the rich man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31), Hades was composed of two compartments â?? Paradise and Torments."
Eye eye eye....first off, its a parable, but I digress. Second, the story does not refer to Torments as a place, or Paradise as a part of Sheol (Hades) in fact, Hades is not mentioned here at all in the Strongs Concordance. (since you said you're new, this is an invaluable tool for bible study, ask a theology professor or minister about it).
Jesus likely simplified the cosmology to help make the point, as it is a parable. In fact, "Paradise" here is conscidered to be "in the bosom of Abraham" Jesus is going for a Jewish-freindly story to hit it home with his audience. I really doubt that Abraham actually has a bunch of dead people glomping onto his chest...
"The Bible indicates that the nature of Hades was radically changed at the time of the Cross. After His death on the Cross, Jesus descended into Hades and declared to all the spirits there His triumph over Satan through the shedding of His blood for the sins of Mankind (1 Peter 3:18-19; 4:6)"
Now this just doesn't even say that. It mentions Jesus going to the spirits involved with the flood. "in which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison,
20. that aforetime were disobedient, when the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water:"
no sheol again. I beleive the writer of the article is proposing a religous *theory*....one that is food for thought but....well...no evidence. His/her thesis is somewhat weak.
"The Bible also indicates that after His resurrection, when He ascended to Heaven, Jesus took Paradise with Him, transferring the spirits of the righteous dead from Hades to Heaven (Ephesians 4:8-9 and 2 Corinthians 12:1-4)."
Again I notice the word "indicates" and the obvious problem with this idea is that the quotes don't show the writer's interpretation.
"The spirits of the righteous dead are thereafter pictured as being in Heaven before the throne of God (Revelation 6:9 and 7:9)."
Now, first of all, this is dangerous. (at least for a practising Christian) If a person pulls any spin on Revelation, there is a curse at the back of the book, so its best to mention that you are paraphrasing....like me, paraphrasing (......safe!) the people are arising from the alter...i.e. (paraphrasing!) entering into God's presence, and the first thing they do is moan and, surprisingly, apparently cry for revenge. This is during the end times, they are then given white robes and told to wait (essentially, "there, there, wait just a little while longer") the white robes thing is important to note....that means they were not sanctified as of yet, and they also were in pain, this means they were not *in* paradise *yet*. Only then, at that moment, allowed in. And this is when the proverbial crap is hitting the fan on earth, as, they were told to wait for a few more that were still left on earth.
also, the concept of sheol is hard to define, some have it as a place, other's have it as a STATE. tHis is why in my previous post, found the confusing, moaning state found in ghost stories similiar to the people mentioned in the revelations quote. suspicously similiar.
Well, that's about it. One thing to note is that a lot of people in religion are going to try to put there own rhetoical spin on certain parts of the bible, but in the end you have to read it yourself, and find out what it means, also be logical about certain interpretations, like this web page was. Like I said before...."Just the facts, ma'am".
oop, I got something at the page to add, "We must also remember that our beliefs about the duration of Hell are not on the plane of cardinal doctrine."
in other words, the person who wrote this agreeing with me. He/she is out on a limb and they are responsibly informing the reader of this (although they wait until they are almost done....could've saved me half an hour of typing...grr...)
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Proto K
Posts: 279/279 |
No, I'm not a Catholic and none of what I stated came anywhere from the Apocrypha.
http://www.lamblion.com/articles/prophecy/issues/PI-05.php
This article should help to clear it up. Many verses in the Bible clearly state a difference between Hades and Hell (ie. The Lake of Fire), which are referenced in that article. I'm no expert myself on it, and am still learning a lot every day.  |
Ares
Posts: 44/47 |
Originally posted by Proto K
Oh, and you only get into heaven or hell (specifically the lake of fire) during judgement day I think, and am paraphrasing.
Ares, you are a bit confused, I'll try to clear up a few things (I'm still new to this, so this might not be all completely correct):
Prior to Jesus's sacrifice on the cross, everyone who died went to Hades. There were two parts to Hades, Paradise and Torments. The righteous and with grace of God were sent to Paradise, and the wicked sent to Torments.
After Jesus died, he decended into Hades to tell everyone there his victory over Satan. He then took all who were in Paradise to Heaven. This would include Abraham, David, Moses, etc.. the Old Testament Saints and other righteous people in God. The wicked were left in the Torments part of Hades, and remain there to this day.
When anyone dies now, if they are saved (through Jesus), then they immediately go to Heaven. If not, they go to the Torments part of Hades (I think). They will stay in Hades until the ressurection of the unrighteous, which will take place at the end of Christ's 1000 year reign. At that time, all the unrighteous will be judged and sent to Hell.
another thing I'm hearing is: "If I'm good...heaven"
Yep, I agree 100% here.. it doesn't matter how good you are, you can't earn your way into heaven. Nobody is good enough.
I'm not confused, I was just recounting the cannical version of Christian cosmology. You've got some extra Catholic Apocrypha stuff goin' on with the paradise and torments stuff.... I just kept it to a Joe Friday sort of explanation. "Just the facts, mam." |
Jazzerus
Posts: 1/2 |
I believe that when we die, we go to a purgatory of sorts, and how good our lives are will determine how well our afterlife is. Kinda like reincarnation but you dont come back to this world. |
SoreThumb
Posts: 2/2 |
Interestingly enough, I'm in a class that is dealing with the concept of death, life, and the soul.
One of our required readings is the Phaedo by Plato.
Apparently Platonic thought is deeply rooted in the modern philosophy about life and death.
http://www.constitution.org/pla/phaedo.htm
An online copy of Phaedo.
While it's long, it's based on Socrates arguing that, due to opposites and other facts, we can use abstract thinking and get thoughts about the soul.
Not all of it is agreeable, and not all of it is easy to understand.
But, if you want to see the document that discusses deeply held beliefs all of us may or may not have, I suggest you read it.
Good luck. :o |
Proto K
Posts: 277/279 |
Oh, and you only get into heaven or hell (specifically the lake of fire) during judgement day I think, and am paraphrasing.
Ares, you are a bit confused, I'll try to clear up a few things (I'm still new to this, so this might not be all completely correct):
Prior to Jesus's sacrifice on the cross, everyone who died went to Hades. There were two parts to Hades, Paradise and Torments. The righteous and with grace of God were sent to Paradise, and the wicked sent to Torments.
After Jesus died, he decended into Hades to tell everyone there his victory over Satan. He then took all who were in Paradise to Heaven. This would include Abraham, David, Moses, etc.. the Old Testament Saints and other righteous people in God. The wicked were left in the Torments part of Hades, and remain there to this day.
When anyone dies now, if they are saved (through Jesus), then they immediately go to Heaven. If not, they go to the Torments part of Hades (I think). They will stay in Hades until the ressurection of the unrighteous, which will take place at the end of Christ's 1000 year reign. At that time, all the unrighteous will be judged and sent to Hell.
another thing I'm hearing is: "If I'm good...heaven"
Yep, I agree 100% here.. it doesn't matter how good you are, you can't earn your way into heaven. Nobody is good enough. |
Dracoon
Posts: 3618/3727 |
Interesting concept, as always. The process of death has been very appealing to me lately, what does happen when you die, is there an after life and so forth and so on.
Religion, although makes many people better, and sometimes they take it to far and are just a nuisence, it isn't something you should constantly follow, as any god that loved everyone (christian) wouldn't try and force you to live life his way. That would mean he only loved himself.
A passive approached to everything, is just to not worry about it till you die, then decide. This is probably MY personal favorite, because it allows you to live freely. The only thing I'll regret about my life is that I don't know whats comming before it ends. |
Arwon
Posts: 486/506 |
Here's what happens when you die:
Your heart stops beating, oxygen stops reaching your brain, you have a few last flickering thoughts and then your synapses stop firing. Your personality and memories cease to exist. Then you begin to decompose... worms burrow into your rotting flesh, maggots infest your skull.
Wait, no, you go to a big country-club type place and hang out with Jesus and Mark Twain and your long lost relatives. My mistake. |
Slay
Posts: 315/339 |
I have a more romantic way of looking at it, Crim. I was sitting outdoors recently, on the front porch of an aquaintence's house, and recorded this in a notebook. The following is excerpted.
From Slay's Diary 
As I sit here on the front porch, I watch a winged ant struggle to free itself from a web which a spider one sixth of its size built as I watched an hour ago. It has no idea that it's doomed, and probably doesn't understand that the web is inescapable, so it tires itself out struggling hopelessly. This creature must die if the spider is to live. When I die, my corpse will decompose, providing nutrients to the ground which plant life will use in the creation of energy. Some herbivorous creature will then consume this plant in order to fuel itself and later reproduce. These animals will then, in turn, be eaten by carnivores, perhaps even another human. The very food I consume came to be through this process, as well. It is by this cycle that all life continues on into eternity. Nothing ever truly ceases to be, no life ever "ends," just changes form. Throughout my youth, I scoffed at the notion of reincarnation. Perhaps this infinity circle is, itself, reincarnation. Not reincarnation of the person, but reincarnation of the body. I feel at peace with the natural order of things, at one with the planet itself. I honestly don't need an afterlife, or to live once more. Just knowing I'm part of this process is enough, for in some small way, with my death, I can give life. Perhaps someday, in the distant future, our world will cease to be, and in a cataclysmic explosion, chunks of earth will be sent flying through space. Only the simplest of bacteria or protein will be able to survive this trip, and then someday, these seeds of the planet will crash into another, and start the entire process over again from the begining. Our planet probably came to be populated in this same way. The fly is dead. The process continues.
You sound angry, Crim, ready to tear down anybody whose opinion differs from your own in the slightest. Saying, "there is no afterlife" need not always be a bitter sentiment... |
Crim~
Posts: 34/46 |
Originally posted by Ronin
Personally, I think it's a little bit like a combination of Buddhism and all of the Christian faiths.
Basically, you die, and if you've been exceptionally bad, you go to hell, exceptionally good, heaven, but if you're stuck some place in the middle, you get another chance to decide your fate by being reincarnated.
Define exceptionally good, exceptionally bad, and moderately good. Those are personal personal values which were given to you by a book, a person that you listened to, your parents, and so on.
How would you go about justifying lies, which allow you to keep someone out of harm, and preserve your image to other people. Perhaps your family is Christian, and you talk to the priest one day. He asks you how you feel about the bible, how you feel about god, if you're being a good person. If you were uncertain about the whole there's a supreme being who created humans, are you really going to admit it? Are you really going to say you're not too sure about your so called faith(Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.)? Could you really bring yourself to tell that priest "I think the bible is nothing but a book of lies and made up stories to keep people in line, I think god is just some full of shit idea to make us feel certain about why we are here, I only come here because my parents drag me along. I'm not really what you would call a good person, I bully people I know and sell drugs to 12 year olds". Would it be good that you told the truth, or would it be bad that you probably insulted this priest and just revealed that you don't really believe what you have been taught to believe?
I know exactly what happens after we die, we're buried, cremated, left out in the dirt somewhere, etc. Done, that's it.
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Thayer
Posts: 765/988 |
I've always felt that the body decomposes and the soul goes into a stasis, whereas your spirit will either remain at rest for a time with the soul, and eventually will no longer exist after the soul is restored, but the spirit can also be disturbed from rest, but I don't mean like 95% of the so-called ghosts that supposedly exist, I'm thinking of something else, it's difficult to explain really. :\ |
Skytroopa
Posts: 130/175 |
I belive you become ghost or you will born again , but as another people or animal. It can't be like a nap , because what will be with your soul? If you are soul in dead body , what you will do? Stay forever in your body and bored , go from your body like a ghost or born again? I'm sure nobody want stay in his rottening dead body. |
Slay
Posts: 283/339 |
In my previous death, I looked like this ---> o_y
In my current death, I look like this ---> o_g |
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