Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - Super Mario World hacking - Various tips for improving your hack.
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HyperLamer
Posts: 307/8210 |
LM warns you about that, or at least it should.  |
Toadeeboy
Posts: 80/264 |
Here's a tip that I learned the hard way:
Don't put too many sprites in a level at once.
Some may not appear or worse, if you have more than 84 or something, the game could crash. And if you have too many enemies on the screen at once, then any sprites past that point will not appear, meaning the goal tape also.... |
Golden Yoshi
Posts: 30/693 |
Originally posted by Kyouji "Kagami" Craw
GoYo: *winces* What did you just say? Sounds to me like you don't like SMW. Why do you hack it so frequently then?
asdf: Yes. It was mainly just a first draft of a larger project, I hadn't thought of everything just yet.
 Why did you think that I didn't like SMW? I just suggested to improve the visual quality of SMW, because I know a lot of people are tired of the old tilesets and colors. I wouldn't have made so many hacks of it if I didn't like it.  |
Alastor the Stylish
Posts: 359/7620 |
I didn't say the graphics were superb, I said I liked them. |
Kefka
Posts: 660/3392 |
Kyouji/Blisseh, you took GoYo's post out of context. He was saying improve the GRAPHIC quality... and honestly, I agree with him. Considering Weasel was able to implement SMW's graphics (or a lot of them) onto his Final Fantasy (NES) hack, you should honestly be able to say that for the most part, the graphics are not exactly superba...
As for the working backwards idea, I think it could work if you were to dump a bunch of your ideas into the last world and then each world you gradually take away stuff... however, there's a good reason why it easily worked with Earthworm Jim and probably couldn't work with SMW that well: EWJ is a VERY short game, and it is a platformer-only game... no overworld. SMW has a big overworld, and many entrance levels and all... you really almost need to be working on ALL the levels at once, in a way. Obviously, you need to concentrate on a particular one now and then, but for the most part, I would say that it would be hard to do this on SMW in comparison to EWJ...
Well, I don't actually hack SMW really, so maybe what I just said is false. However, I do know I certainly couldn't do my Final Fantasy hack backwards because of things like the overworld, and the fact that it has a STORY... but... I dunno, I just don't think it could work that well on SMW... but MAYBE, I mean, if you were a genius at hacking, it probably could.
EDIT: fixed spelling |
Alastor the Stylish
Posts: 358/7620 |
GoYo: *winces* What did you just say? Sounds to me like you don't like SMW. Why do you hack it so frequently then?
asdf: Yes. It was mainly just a first draft of a larger project, I hadn't thought of everything just yet.
Originally posted by Trashykins
One idea, which I may use in the future, was this trick, used by the designers of Earthworm Jim:
Design the levels in reverse order: Start from the final level, and work your way to the beginning. That way, you start with somewhat tired levels, and as you play, the experience gets more interesting.
Also, try new stuff. 
That's a great idea, in theory... However, I believe it will fail if put into practice. Honestly, an experienced hacker or a professional programmer would have no trouble working like this, but the average person here is an ameteur hacker who will have a great deal of trouble. For one, If they are too inexperienced at the beginning, then if they don't touch it up (and they rarely do) then it'll just get worse and worse as it goes on, like I say in point 6. And if they are past that step they may still fall victim to forgetting about point 2, and have a mediocre hack at first that gets better rather slowly. It'll get better and better, but since it was only fair at the beginning there's no real driving force behind you wanting to keep playing. |
Golden Yoshi
Posts: 29/693 |
Interesting observations...let me add one:
9. Always attempt to edit palettes if you're not going to edit the graphics. Just about anything will improve the quality of the original SMW. |
asdf
Posts: 12/303 |
Originally posted by Kyouji "Kagami" Craw
1. Fix all graphical glitches prior to release. I mean, this should be obvious, but after playing several hacks, I can say it is not. Go through and test how things look in-game, maybe the game does something with it you didn't expect. Don't be afraid to make several tests with things just barely changed, if it'll help.
True. If it's not that bad a graphical glitch that it's barely noticeable, it's fine for the demo, but get rid of it by the final.
Originally posted by Kyouji "Kagami" Craw2. Pacing. It's all about pacing. If you have hundreds of ideas, implement them several per level. If, however, your not exactly an idea fountain, you will want to keep things fresh by changing things slowly, but still at a fairly constant rate. For example, Yoshi's Island is a fun game at first, but it seems the makers placed all their ideas in right from the get-go, so by the third world new things are rarely placed in, levels are far too long and boring, and while when something new comes it's nice and fresh, new things rarely come. The boss battles saved that game, and because you bought it you wanted to squeeze every penny and go all the way through. In hacks, however, you cannot edit bosses, and you don't pay for it, so if someone doesn't like it, they'll simply stop playing.
In short: Keep things fresh by not using all your ideas at once, but rather pacing their entry at a fairly steady rate.
That is, unless you're full of ideas. It's fine to recycle themes, such as another wind ride level, for example, but not in excess, and try to keep each reused theme level different from the others. One wind ride level could be on a mountain early on in the game, and the other could be in a cloud level with access to a cape (with the floating techniques required to win) later on.
Originally posted by Kyouji "Kagami" Craw3. Make sure graphics fit together. If you're going to edit graphics, edit all the graphics in a particular tileset, or at least almost all, and keep the theme relatively the same. You don't want YI foreground with SMB3 block graphics and unedited enemy graphics. It's just ugly.
I usually don't mind unless they horribly clash.
Originally posted by Kyouji "Kagami" Craw4. Draw ideas from everywhere. Using barely edited levels that were in originally is just fine... If you're a beginner. Just the same, if you want people to like your hack, draw ideas from everywhere. Other hacks, other games, real life situations, it doesn't matter. This allows you to get good ideas even if you can't think of any on your own. When in doubt, open up a random game and look for anything that might fit in.
Yes.
Originally posted by Kyouji "Kagami" Craw 5. On the other hand... Keep things original. Despite what I told just said, don't just rip things directly. Customize it in your own unique way. If you don't, it's essentially just taking something else the player has likely already done, and this will make the player very bored indeed.
If that was true, everyone's ripped everyone else off. And it is!
Originally posted by Kyouji "Kagami" Craw6. Redo old levels. This is especially true for beginners: You will get better as you go along. That, or you'll get worse, but that rarely happens and we'll pray it doesn't. But anyway, you will get better as you go along. Because of this, you need to redo older levels to make them fresher. Your later levels will be better than your earlier levels provided you haven't run out of good ideas, simply because you got better along the way. So go back, redo old overworld levels to make them better. For beginners, the early levels may well be terrible while the later levels are fantastic, but the player will never know because they'll just see the early levels and give up... And will likely give up on your later hacks as well. That's very bad indeed.
Indeed. My first world has been touched up approxemently 187 times. Don't forget the Overworld, either. I changed my first world's submap from something extremely bland into an interesting thing, especially with the event where water comes flowing through.
Here are some of mine to add to the list. I almost can't believe that you, Mr. Critism (or so I like to call you ) forgot the following...
7. Don't use the same base of a level twice in a row. It's fine when they're split apart, but having 6 overworld desert levels that take place at sunset thrown at you in one world in a row...no. Look at the original for example. Let's use Chocolate Island as an example world.
Chocolate Island 1: Grassy level. Has rhinos.
Chocolate Ghost House: Ghost house, much different from previous ghost houses.
Chocolate Island 2: Unique rocky-palletted level with many paths.
Chocolate Island 3: Mushroom-Top level with roating platforms.
Chocolate Fortress: Brown Castle with mud.
Chocolate Island 4: Cave level with mud.
Chocolate Island 5: Another grassy level with enemies in blocks
Castle #6: Castle with crushers
As you can see, no two types of levels are repeated twice in a row. Even something like Forest of Illusion or Vanilla Dome is varied in the level themes.
8. Avoid using objects, particularly ones that can hurt you, that blend into the background too well. It's alright to have it so you can still see it without straining, catching careless players off guard, but not if it's almost literally camoflauged. |
Slash Dafter
Posts: 13/584 |
You know, that's actually a really good idea. I'm gonna give that a try. |
The Kins
Posts: 69/595 |
One idea, which I may use in the future, was this trick, used by the designers of Earthworm Jim:
Design the levels in reverse order: Start from the final level, and work your way to the beginning. That way, you start with somewhat tired levels, and as you play, the experience gets more interesting.
Also, try new stuff. |
Alastor the Stylish
Posts: 350/7620 |
1. Fix all graphical glitches prior to release. I mean, this should be obvious, but after playing several hacks, I can say it is not. Go through and test how things look in-game, maybe the game does something with it you didn't expect. Don't be afraid to make several tests with things just barely changed, if it'll help.
2. Pacing. It's all about pacing. If you have hundreds of ideas, implement them several per level. If, however, your not exactly an idea fountain, you will want to keep things fresh by changing things slowly, but still at a fairly constant rate. For example, Yoshi's Island is a fun game at first, but it seems the makers placed all their ideas in right from the get-go, so by the third world new things are rarely placed in, levels are far too long and boring, and while when something new comes it's nice and fresh, new things rarely come. The boss battles saved that game, and because you bought it you wanted to squeeze every penny and go all the way through. In hacks, however, you cannot edit bosses, and you don't pay for it, so if someone doesn't like it, they'll simply stop playing.
In short: Keep things fresh by not using all your ideas at once, but rather pacing their entry at a fairly steady rate.
3. Make sure graphics fit together. If you're going to edit graphics, edit all the graphics in a particular tileset, or at least almost all, and keep the theme relatively the same. You don't want YI foreground with SMB3 block graphics and unedited enemy graphics. It's just ugly.
4. Draw ideas from everywhere. Using barely edited levels that were in originally is just fine... If you're a beginner. Just the same, if you want people to like your hack, draw ideas from everywhere. Other hacks, other games, real life situations, it doesn't matter. This allows you to get good ideas even if you can't think of any on your own. When in doubt, open up a random game and look for anything that might fit in.
5. On the other hand... Keep things original. Despite what I told just said, don't just rip things directly. Customize it in your own unique way. If you don't, it's essentially just taking something else the player has likely already done, and this will make the player very bored indeed.
6. Redo old levels. This is especially true for beginners: You will get better as you go along. That, or you'll get worse, but that rarely happens and we'll pray it doesn't. But anyway, you will get better as you go along. Because of this, you need to redo older levels to make them fresher. Your later levels will be better than your earlier levels provided you haven't run out of good ideas, simply because you got better along the way. So go back, redo old overworld levels to make them better. For beginners, the early levels may well be terrible while the later levels are fantastic, but the player will never know because they'll just see the early levels and give up... And will likely give up on your later hacks as well. That's very bad indeed. |
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labmaster
