Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - Super Mario World hacking - Lunar Magic interface flaws/issues
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Jesper
Posts: 262/2390 |
Originally posted by FuSoYa
However, an option for just filtering out the ID from the object/sprite lists would indeed be relatively trivial to implement, a few people seem to want it, and I'm aware of the time it takes to look in the list for something. There is the issue of the GFX list display though, which would take a bit of extra work to fix (but rather than use a whole new array that would need to be updated whenever the list is changed, I'd likely either extract the information from the sprite data itself or hook into the tool tip code to get the sprite number). As it is, I'd probably be nearly convinced enough to place this suggestion towards the middle of my list of possible things to do in LM, depending on what else I was working on and the amount of free time I had.
Of course, since there isn't a list anymore it's not going to get done unless I feel like slipping it in with a bug fix release. 
Thanks for giving us an insight in how the process works. All I wanted was that if you released any more bug fix releases, you'd try to slip that in since it would be relatively trivial and boost usability so much, even for yourself, and it seems that you're seriously considering it.  |
Juggling Joker
Posts: 59/1033 |
I still would like to be able to make global tile changes directly in Lunar Magic, though I doubt it will ever happen. I at least know enough programming now to make my own utility for it, though, so all is not lost. |
FuSoYa
Posts: 17/255 |
Originally posted by Jesper
And finally, Fu, aside from "politics", what's keeping you from adding some of these features (and not necessarily releasing them as a new version)? Haven't you ever hit these 'walls' before when doing the parts of Demo World that you made? Or do you already know all IDs by heart?
Know all the IDs by heart? Not really. ^^ It's one of those things that slows me down just enough to notice, but not often enough or severely enough to bother me much.
And yes, I am trying to move on from LM to other things, hence the bug-fix only status I'd like to keep LM in from now on if possible.
If you're wondering why I haven't implemented certain features in the past, I guess it might help to explain the unofficial list I go through when considering what to work on:
1) Bug fixes. Corruption and crashing bugs in particular take priority.
2) Personal wish list. This involves not only things I want to put in for my own private use, but where I want to take the program as far as features go, UI changes, and sometimes things I want to do just for the fun of it. 
3) Suggestions. Assuming something isn't outright impossible (add more tiles in VRAM for sprites, for example), there's a basic list of criterion I go through when considering a suggestion: practicality, usefulness, complexity, impact on existing UI and functionality, possible impact on future UI and functionality, time spent coding it, how many others want it, and do I really want it in LM? There's probably others, but those are the main ones.
While I don't always respond to every suggestion (suggestion threads fill up very quickly, and it can get very time consuming), I do read through them all.
So, for example... the level display suggestion in your first post. Yes, it might be nice to have that information displayed in an out-of-the-way location. However, the information is already displayed optionally with translucent text, so it doesn't make much sense to spend time making yet another option for how to display it. It may also be unwise to use that space for duplicating existing functionality when it could be used for something better in the future. So, no go.
However, an option for just filtering out the ID from the object/sprite lists would indeed be relatively trivial to implement, a few people seem to want it, and I'm aware of the time it takes to look in the list for something. There is the issue of the GFX list display though, which would take a bit of extra work to fix (but rather than use a whole new array that would need to be updated whenever the list is changed, I'd likely either extract the information from the sprite data itself or hook into the tool tip code to get the sprite number). As it is, I'd probably be nearly convinced enough to place this suggestion towards the middle of my list of possible things to do in LM, depending on what else I was working on and the amount of free time I had.
Of course, since there isn't a list anymore it's not going to get done unless I feel like slipping it in with a bug fix release.
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Jesper
Posts: 255/2390 |
Originally posted by Max
You wouldn't have to delete the ID. There has to be some easy way to code it so that the first three (or something) numbers/letters are ignored when typing to find something.
Yes, but it'd take longer to code than just (optionally) hiding it. |
Zemus
Posts: 181/233 |
Okay, I'm late on the reply, but yeah, I agree about the add sprites/objects window. I've tried to type the name of a sprite each new version that's released and realize that it doesn't work  I'd love for it to say turn block ## instead of ## turn block. That aside, another thing mentioned was the black space at the bottom... I'm at 1600x1200... so I can pretty much fit a second horizontal level in there. I dunno what to do with the space, though. lol
One suggestion I'd like to make is, at 1600x1200 the world map is a bit hard to see in some aspects... any chance we could get a view option say... Zoom 50%/100%/150%/200%? it'd be kinda nice so I don't have to get all close to the monitor just to see what I'm editing This is only a factor on overworld.... level editing is still fine, but the sprites on overworld are so tiny that it's hard to know what the hell you're doing Just a thought... so I don't have to download that microsoft magnifying glass just to use Overworld Editor |
macks
Posts: 117/900 |
Releasing the source code to the public? No. Releasing it to people he know will make good stuff out of it? Yes. |
Cellar Dweller
Posts: 26/269 |
Originally posted by Jesper
And finally, Fu, aside from "politics", what's keeping you from adding some of these features (and not necessarily releasing them as a new version)? Haven't you ever hit these 'walls' before when doing the parts of Demo World that you made? Or do you already know all IDs by heart?
I seem to remember reading in another thread that he wants to move on to other projects. If that is the case, I believe that he should release the source code to Lunar Magic so that the SMW hacking community can continue to improve it. |
macks
Posts: 116/900 |
You wouldn't have to delete the ID. There has to be some easy way to code it so that the first three (or something) numbers/letters are ignored when typing to find something. |
Smallhacker
Posts: 83/2273 |
Something that always makes me annoyed is the tool tips, or to be more specific... The lack of tool tips.
When you put your mouse over something in the add object window, you can see their tool tip. That's nice. However, when you're in the 16x16 tile editor, there are no tool tips, which requires that you must have both the 16x16 tile editor and the add objects window open to make sure that you edit the correct tile. That annoyes me almost every single day. 
Solution:
Add tool tips to the 16x16 tile editor.
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Jesper
Posts: 243/2390 |
Originally posted by FuSoYa
Originally posted by Jesper
A lot of these are bugs. Not as in misbehaving, but as not following Windows guidelines or just plain common sense.
Just because something bugs you or doesn't follow suggested guidelines hardly means it's a bug. Yes, it would probably be useful to add a new feature to make finding sprites in the list easier, but I'm trying to avoid making new features for LM. Removing the ID would currently disable the window's ability to list which GFX files the game originally uses for sprites (an acceptable tradeoff for some perhaps, but still...). A find function would be better, but that would be more work. I still think using a separate ROM that has a few levels containing a listing of the objects/sprites arranged by tileset might be more useful.
Besides, releasing a new version just for something as minor as this would not be following good software release guidelines or just plain common sense.
All good points.
This beast is two problems. One: Toggling display of ID and axis info at the start of the list box in the objects/sprites palettes. ("01 XY Water tiles" hinders me to type "Water" into the list box and have it take me to that, since there's other data in the way.)
But there's absolutely nothing that blocks you from storing the ID and axis info in an array aside from the real list data, and I'm really surprised right now that, if I get you right, you're not storing it anywhere else, or atleast you're relying on the 'live' list data for other controls.
I don't doubt that the ID and axis info is needed, hell, even required, to some folks or the program, I just think that there should be an option to hide it if you want to, to allow me to type in the list and have it go to the item I want.
And no, this doesn't warrant a new version, although I think this is the second or even third time I have suggested this, so I'm still a bit surprised that something that would be relatively trivial (ASM hacks, STAR tracking, multiple ROM version support vs an option for a listbox) and that would do SO MUCH for the wonders of usability is not implemented.
And Two: Some more advanced filtering or searching of the data.
The lay them out on a level in another copy approach would be superb, but it wouldn't be dynamic. You couldn't say "here's the stuff you probably want to use for these SP values", which you could do if Fu were to add such categories in the dropdowns. Now for this I won't blame him. This would probably be way harder to do than what's suggested in One, above.
And finally, Fu, aside from "politics", what's keeping you from adding some of these features (and not necessarily releasing them as a new version)? Haven't you ever hit these 'walls' before when doing the parts of Demo World that you made? Or do you already know all IDs by heart? |
FuSoYa
Posts: 14/255 |
Originally posted by Jesper
A lot of these are bugs. Not as in misbehaving, but as not following Windows guidelines or just plain common sense.
Just because something bugs you or doesn't follow suggested guidelines hardly means it's a bug. Yes, it would probably be useful to add a new feature to make finding sprites in the list easier, but I'm trying to avoid making new features for LM. Removing the ID would currently disable the window's ability to list which GFX files the game originally uses for sprites (an acceptable tradeoff for some perhaps, but still...). A find function would be better, but that would be more work. I still think using a separate ROM that has a few levels containing a listing of the objects/sprites arranged by tileset might be more useful.
Besides, releasing a new version just for something as minor as this would not be following good software release guidelines or just plain common sense.
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HyperLamer
Posts: 282/8210 |
I mentioned that but I doubt it'll happen. (Though my resolution's big enough that I can just put the windows there. ) |
Kario
Posts: 228/2082 |
What he is saying is, its in the way on the level screen. That big blackness at the bottom could be used for something. |
HyperLamer
Posts: 280/8210 |
Well why not just move the ID to the end of the name and put them all in one list? (Have it like "Walk-Through Dirt 00" (with a tab there).)
I'd like to see more SMW bug fixes/workarounds. For example, allow the midway point to be anywhere in the level. And how about an ASM hack to allow using any value for the FG/BG placements, to get rid of them damn bugs where it won't work no matter where you put it? (And for that matter, how about actually rendering the BG in the position it'd appear in the game?  ) |
cpubasic13
Posts: 174/1346 |
I like the idea of pressing a letter and going to the sprite you want. I hate having to look through the tileset specific sprites to find the sprite I want when there is a bunch of garbage sprites distracting me.
I like the idea about the sprites currently in the level idea. It would be easier for me to add more sprites that I want to use.
I like your idea, BMF. That would be more organized and easier for me to add stuff. |
Jesper
Posts: 240/2390 |
I always run LM maximized, so that's not an issue, but I just dislike having the whole thing cluttered unless I really need to. Screen borders are nice to have all the time, but I don't necessarily like it there, even when it's transculent. That suggestion was kind of minor, though. I'd like far better that the palettes were improved than that this happened, if I had to pick. |
Alastor the Stylish
Posts: 347/7620 |
If I'm reading it correctly, Jesper does not like having to scroll up to see screen exits and numbers and stuff. That can be solved simply by resizing the window, if you're using a relatively new Windows version it'll save the placement and size of the window every time you open it. |
Surlent
Posts: 129/1077 |
Making the object and sprite editor windows resizable would be good indeed. As fir Jespers suggestion using that ruler, I'd go a little further:
I would like to have a small window which is like a scroll/preview of the current level (like a very tiny version of the level editor window, just that it shows a fixed symbol for every screen); it is impossible to see all objects; but as for screen exits for example, some screen(s) could be marked in different colors or with little icons on that:
"E" - screen exit here; right-click on the level scroll opens up a context menu like "Goto screen/Modify screen exit/Delete"
"M" - midway point location - right click shows "Goto screen/open up midway/start point dialog window". If the start and midway point were in the same screen, it could display "S/M" for example.
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Jesper
Posts: 239/2390 |
A lot of these are bugs. Not as in misbehaving, but as not following Windows guidelines or just plain common sense.
Open a Windows Explorer window, for example C:\, and turn on detailed list view. Start to type the name of the file you want to arrive at, and you will arrive at that. You will not need to type, say, the file size beforehand, as, theoretically, is the case with the LM objects/sprites palettes. I'd suggest a switch to the List View, but I know that would be a lot of needless programming to achieve next to no effect, so I'll settle for just optionally showing the number and axis info, which solves the problem today and doesn't hurt anyone. |
HyperLamer
Posts: 278/8210 |
BMF: I like that idea. I originally said the objects should all be laid out there in a drag-and-drop interface, but your idea might work better for lower resolutions. (Of course it'd still be better if, when you drag an object off the clipboard, the original stays there; to get rid of it just click it and hit Delete.)
The arrangement of objects/sprites is mostly due to their ID, unfortunately just about everything's a random Extended Object (object #0, the size indicates the actual block, hence why they're all 1x1). Arranging them alphabetically or by type (all the Koopas together, all the coins, etc) might work better. |
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labmaster
