| User | Post |
ClockExplosion
Posts: 5/46 |
Taking B12 vitamens are less natural because, some times, the vitamens are synthetic.
My view is this - I don't care. You can eat our own shit. Just as long as you discuss without ad hominems and balant disregard to intelligence, I don't care. You can't deny though that we are designed to eat both meats and plants because of the inclusion of the incisors and canines, and also that if you compare digestion systems, you'll discover that we are missing an important element (the name escapes me...in the koala bear, it's a branch off of the long intestine and it's a big spiral). This element allows us to get the most nutrition from plants, but since we can't digest cellulose, a major combonent of plants, we lack the potential to get all the energy from plants.
Now, if you want to eat go ahead. And if your ancestors do too, that's okay. You're family line, in millions of years will be completely able to function completely on plants, without vitamens. |
Ben rhymes with ???
Posts: 24/69 |
Originally posted by ||bass
A common mistake vegatatarians commonly make is the assumption that killing animals is somehow not natural for humans. Nothing could be farther from the truth. All scientific evidence about human digestion suggests that humans are ment to eat both plants AND ANIMALS. The human jaw and teeth contains structures intended to eat animal flesh as well as tough plant matter.
Did you even know that the appendix is thought to have aided in the digestion of raw and undercooked meat for early caveman?
Hence you imply that our present day morals and dietary culture should be dictated by the ancient past. Why should this be?
As a biology student you are surely aware that nearly every Asian person (and many other races besides) is lactose intolerant. Caucasians however have adapted to a lactose-heavy diet. Were the Caucasians wrong for turning their backs on their lactose intolerant evolutionary history? Of course not, and likewise: have our recent ancestors committed any wrong by finding new diets and so shunning the use of their appendixes?
So why should it be any different with teeth and vegetarianism? Is taking B12 supplements in place of eating meat any less natural than any of the other things that we human beings do in our strange modern lives? |
Okilian
Posts: 20/43 |
Originally posted by Slay
The Okilian says...
I believe that a majority of vegans are only there to promote a somewhat over extravaggant idea (like conditions for animals.) If they would look more into the idea, they would see the strides now made by a majority of dairy farms to be clean and sanitary...
You misunderstand the vegan mission statement. Most vegans are such for moral reasons; they don't particularly care about the health concerns of eating meat compared to the morality of raising animals in huge herds for slaughter and consumption. Vegetarians tend to eat the way they do for health concerns, which is why they tend to have no qualms about consuming dairy products or eggs; vegans tend to abstain from such products because it promotes the conditions they see as abusive towards farm animals.
I thought that's what I said..but it could be misinterpreted.
I have no problem with them being vegans...but it's when they try to force me into that style where i kinda get ticked. |
Slay
Posts: 161/339 |
The Okilian says...
I believe that a majority of vegans are only there to promote a somewhat over extravaggant idea (like conditions for animals.) If they would look more into the idea, they would see the strides now made by a majority of dairy farms to be clean and sanitary...
You misunderstand the vegan mission statement. Most vegans are such for moral reasons; they don't particularly care about the health concerns of eating meat compared to the morality of raising animals in huge herds for slaughter and consumption. Vegetarians tend to eat the way they do for health concerns, which is why they tend to have no qualms about consuming dairy products or eggs; vegans tend to abstain from such products because it promotes the conditions they see as abusive towards farm animals. |
paraplayer
Posts: 123/280 |
I agree. Really it's only when a Vegen starts randomly starts critizising people for eating meat and killing helpless animals.
This one person i know all the sudden started yelling at me through her teeth for eating meat. It was all the sudden and i was sorta shocked. I was pretty pissed... |
Danielle
Posts: 421/3359 |
I don't quite understand what the big deal is. If someone wants to be vegan, let them. It's their life. If you want to eat meat, great! Eat enough for you and the vegan, kay? 
At my school, there's a senior who's a vegan. Basically, just because of his diet, he became the most popular kid in school. Mikey the Vegan. Everyone knew Mikey the Vegan. For his senior quote, he said "It's amazing how I'm well known only because of my diet style. Stop calling me Mikey the Vegan. Thanks."
To each his own, right? |
paraplayer
Posts: 111/280 |
I tend to treat meat like wine. Eat it pretty rarely and when your not eating meat stick to alternatives such as eggs. (An egg is an alternative right?)
Anyways about Vegens. Not eating meat is fantastic and you can adjust your diet without meat pretty succesfully. But i don't see what's wrong with drinking milk. Then again look at mario. He lives off mushrooms. |
Okilian
Posts: 6/43 |
I've met a number of vegans, and personally...I love a steak.
I do eat sensibly, but at the same time, don't just stick to one part of the pyramid.
I believe that a majority of vegans are only there to promote a somewhat over extravaggant idea (like conditions for animals.) If they would look more into the idea, they would see the strides now made by a majority of dairy farms to be clean and sanitary...
Eat right, eat some meat. |
Legion
Posts: 4030/5657 |
You know...slightly off topic, at first thought of "human milk" I thought of something gross.
Then it dawned on me that there is a such thing as human milk.
I've been on the internet way too fucking long.  |
Slay
Posts: 114/339 |
The Grey says...
Slay, the point of that article was to show the problems of skewing information in the favor of an argument. All of the points presented in that article have special exceptions and are the result of slightly altered facts that still *sound* right to the average listener.
Indeed. I was just adding my own comment on the situation. Anyone who looks at the rest of that website, or even the front page, can see how radical and sanctimonious it is.
The Darth Legious says...
Vegetarians are one thing but vegans are just downright insane. Milking a cow does NOT hurt the cow. Fuck!
I once talked with a vegan who explained to me a rather unique viewpoint. "Cow milk is intended for cows, goat milk is intended for goats, human milk is intended for humans." An argument of logic, rather than misplaced morals. |
Grey the Stampede
Posts: 2341/3770 |
So if that crap grain were cut entirely from the market, would it produce a drop in harvester deaths? |
||bass
Posts: 432/817 |
I should also point out that the grain that gets fed to farm animals isn't the same grain that gets fed to humans. The grain for animals tends to be the same cource-as-rocks, not fit for human consumption grain that otherwise would be useless. |
Legion
Posts: 3987/5657 |
Originally posted by Dracoon
Oh yeah, most farm is grains/wheat (I live in Kansas, don't argue) and a good portion of that goes to farm animals. So, a lot of those animals that die, die because we need to feed the animals we eat. Don't throw the haverster argument around, its a pile of shit no one should mention, ever.
You can twist it around all you want but the fact is they're still killed. Besides, it's not just grain we're talking about here, it's other crops as well. Besides, most of the grain doesn't go towards livestock anyway, it goes to us. |
Dracoon
Posts: 3035/3727 |
Thats why the awesome word "omnivore" was invented.
Really, everyone, take a second to think, right now.
Ok, done?
Think about what Ziff said, he isn't saying, "Only eat vegatables" he saying we need to balance our diet. As americans, we're all bad at that, horribly, bad. We usually eat what tastes good, and don't care about the health problems later.
Please people, no one should really give a damn about who eats what, as long as they aren't shoving it down your throat (PETA).
Oh yeah, most farm is grains/wheat (I live in Kansas, don't argue) and a good portion of that goes to farm animals. So, a lot of those animals that die, die because we need to feed the animals we eat. Don't throw the haverster argument around, its a pile of shit no one should mention, ever. |
Grey the Stampede
Posts: 2333/3770 |
Slay, the point of that article was to show the problems of skewing information in the favor of an argument. All of the points presented in that article have special exceptions and are the result of slightly altered facts that still *sound* right to the average listener.
And as far as evolutionary science goes, what about gatherer cultures and cultures that say that certain meats are against the religion, like Hinduism? They honor cows and never eat beef. If they managed to evolve without a primary source of meat in their culture, then it follows to assume that there's a possiblity that meat is not ESSENTIAL to human survival, it just makes it easier.
Similarly, our teeth are designed for ripping and tearing meat as well as grinding plants. Our earliest ancestors had much more pronounced canines that were capable of tearing open flesh, they just got duller over time as, as Ziff said, we started eating less and less meat and more of a balanced diet. We're not carnivores, we're just not herbivores, either. |
Slay
Posts: 110/339 |
About the biological problems associated with drinking milk and that link posted, they only cover cow milk. Goat and panda milk is popular in eastern countries, and is said to be much healthier. |
||bass
Posts: 430/817 |
You don't need to be origional. Just logical and correct. Not that it has anything to do with the FACTS AS THEY ARE.
You know.... because being unorigional makes it wrong. Yea.... |
alte Hexe
Posts: 3922/5458 |
I didn't bring in moral relativism into this, Legion.
Yawn. ||bass, you really need to get some originality. No one is arguing that meat is BAD for you. I stated that it needs to be balanced by alternative food stuffs. |
||bass
Posts: 429/817 |
Maybe I should point out that consuming too much water has detrimental effects to human health.
Saying too much of anything is bad for you as an arguement is a totally pointless statement. Too much OXYGEN can be bad for you. Jeez.... |
Legion
Posts: 3971/5657 |
Originally posted by Emperor Ziffatine
"Time for biology 101 with ||bass.
A common mistake vegatatarians commonly make is the assumption that killing animals is somehow not natural for humans. Nothing could be farther from the truth. All scientific evidence about human digestion suggests that humans are ment to eat both plants AND ANIMALS. The human jaw and teeth contains structures intended to eat animal flesh as well as tough plant matter.
Did you even know that the appendix is thought to have aided in the digestion of raw and undercooked meat for early caveman?"
"I think the point here is that it seems like I'm the only one who actually took biology at all."
Yes, ad hominem attacks solely from my side? Welcome to reality. Feel the burn. You did it too.
And I never even stated that we don't need meat, but what I DID state was that consuming too much has detrimental effects to human health.
But why did you reply with that though? We were talking about how meat is perfectly fine for human consumption and you come along saying how a balanced diet is more important. I don't disagree with you but what did that have to do with whether or not eating meat was wrong or right? |
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