Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - World Affairs / Debate - Why do you stay away from religion?
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alte Hexe
Posts: 5270/5458 |
The only thing that stops you from getting up is the inability to do so. It is disingenuous to make assumptions that belief would hold you back in such a circumstance. |
geeogree
Posts: 411/448 |
Ziff: true, but if you didn't believe you could actually get up would you try? |
Proto K
Posts: 276/279 |
Until recently, I've stayed away from religion, but not anymore. I've embraced Christianity, and Jesus. I feel different and stronger as a result.
While I'd like for people to realize that the Son of God died on the cross for our sins, and to embrace Him as your Savior, I will not go to the point of force-feeding it down their throats. In the end, you have to make the decision on your own.
Call me a fool, or whatever you want.. you won't change my beliefs. |
Zer0wned
Posts: 86/181 |
Originally posted by SamuraiX
Religious debate is an oxymoron, but there is a lot of religious argument. By this, I mean that religion is based on faith, not logic. -__-;;
This is the root of the current disagreements on the usage of the word "faith" in this statement. We're referring to however he just used it in this particular sentence. I assumed a purely religious definition, namely definition #2:" Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence.", since he was on the topic of debate, which is logic based.
But on second look that could have very well been in reference to the more generic, not-neccesarily-religious faith, in definition #1.
Upon further review I conclude that I now hate the word "faith", and will never use it again, unless in reference to the word itself. |
alte Hexe
Posts: 5266/5458 |
You're picking at straws zer0wned. This topic covers all of those topics. As definition 1 is relevant to the conversation.
Topic 3 is about the only one that doesn't fall strongly into the topic at hand.
geeogree: I get up out of bed because it is biologically imperitive I feed, defecate, attempt to find a mate and go about all other required routines. As a human I get out of bed because I have to fulfill societal duties. |
Zer0wned
Posts: 81/181 |
faith (fÄ?th) pronunciation
n.
1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
2. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. See synonyms at belief, trust.
3. Loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance: keeping faith with one's supporters.
4. often Faith Christianity. The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will.
5. The body of dogma of a religion: the Muslim faith.
6. A set of principles or beliefs.
You're talking about definition 1.
The topic is referring to 2, 4, 5, and 6.
EDIT: definitions from www.answers.com |
geeogree
Posts: 410/448 |
go read a dictionary.... that usage definitely falls under that definition |
Zer0wned
Posts: 80/181 |
Originally posted by geeogree
I've been waiting for someone to ask
everything you do is based on faith... everything. You get up out of bed because you believe you can. If you didn't believe you could, you would never try.
I could give you example after example... but hopefully the one will do.
 ... wrong definition of faith there, geeogree. |
geeogree
Posts: 409/448 |
I've been waiting for someone to ask
everything you do is based on faith... everything. You get up out of bed because you believe you can. If you didn't believe you could, you would never try.
I could give you example after example... but hopefully the one will do. |
Tamarin Calanis
Posts: 826/1802 |
Originally posted by geeogree
so anything based on faith is bogus?
well, you just your entire existence out the window 
Erm, that makes no sense whatsoever.
I'm here. Where's the faith needed for that? 
And SamuraiX, please stop with the scrolling smilies. |
Zer0wned
Posts: 74/181 |
So following that premise, I could create a dozen complete BS, but self containing religions, and they would hold some value, so long as there were no staggering internal self contradictions, and remained consistant with external evidence (sometimes not even then)?
Religion is here to/is used for:
#1- Put away the fear of death, teach people to accept it, even look forward to it when it comes
#2- Instill a feeling of meaning and purpose in those who cannot find their own place in life
#3- silence the wandering mind (for better or worse)
#4- (my favorite) Controlling the masses through exploitation, intimidation, guilt, and harmless unity (once again, for better or worse).
#5- Humanize the calamity of life (a diety's will or intervention, sometimes involving a master plan; as opposed to just a big number game).
You see what's happening here? These are, for the most part, the roles of a great leader, and since a real one is so hard to come by, people conjure up one or several, or follow teachings of a long since dead leader to fill holes when one is not there (even when one is there, with how strongly founded religion is now).
Pride, envy, lust, gluttony, wrath, greed and sloth. Sins now, but were seven primal urges that aided in survival in the way back when (I say sloth because the strive for it had to have had some positive effects on survival). They've been obsolete in most settings for a long time, just like that primal urge for a leader is now. Social order doesn't require a leader so much as it needs guidelines and rules (and those who enforce them), but we're still hard-wired to need one. I think need for self worth, and fear of timely death are both pretty pointless as well, but I doubt most people would agree with me there  .
I will, right now go on record on saying that I firmly believe that every single existing religion is wrong, whether it makes sense or not. Divine powers, cosmic powers, gods, God, these cannot be 100% disproven, I will admit this. Just as they cannot be proven. But the chances that any of the existing religious theories are correct are so slim, Infinitesimal even, that I can confidently say that they are all false. Now I can only fairly guess about a 50% (I'd personally say 25%) chance of a true (currently followed or not) religion, as opposed to a completely logical universe, where there is no supernatural, where everything has a logical explaination, although probably impossible for humans to discover.
EDIT: F***ing typos!!!! |
Ares
Posts: 43/47 |
Originally posted by SamuraiX
I was talking about the premises of a debate, since religious based arguments have little or no backup. "Because god said so" is a really shitty standard for a debate. There is no evidence of god, unless you make up one (bad idea).
Folks, I present to you, my example of a logical thinker! Actually chief, the fine art of rhetoric was crafted with the intent for use in philisophical debates, your "backup" never has to be actual physical evidence (hells bells, if that were true, half of science goes right out the window on that one) but rhetorical reasoning ability. "If suchinsuch is suchinso, then it follows that" ect.
Now, I'm not insulting you, I would never insult someone with such a kick A Kenshin themed layout.
All I'm saying is that you are definitly a logical thinker, you probably see people with their head in the clouds and think poorly of them....but really in the end like my ealier post said, its all about what your wired for. Read a book on rhetoric and philosphy guys, or take a class or something, always try to expand your horizons..(now this is starting to sound like an after-school special..) |
Zer0wned
Posts: 72/181 |
*re·li·gion (rÄ-lÄj'É™n)
n.
1.
1. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
2. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.
Yup, according to definitions 3 & 4, he's right. I'll be damned, I didn't think the un-God/Allah/Shiva&company/etc'd ones fell under that definition
But I never seem to see much trouble from the non-theistic forms (not in the sense that they are a certain religion and cause problems, but cause problems in the name of their religion). Then again, I haven't been around long, and it's been becoming more and more clear to me that I was given a horrible education ...
That Shiva & company comment wasn't offensive, was it? I'm not too learn'd on Hinduism.
*Definition from www.answers.com |
Thayer
Posts: 395/988 |
Not all religions have gods. |
SamuraiX
Posts: 10/140 |
I was talking about the premises of a debate, since religious based arguments have little or no backup. "Because god said so" is a really shitty standard for a debate. There is no evidence of god, unless you make up one (bad idea).
|
Thayer
Posts: 328/988 |
A debate is a discussion where opposing points spar with each other. I find it difficult to see how religion can necessarily be excluded from such. |
geeogree
Posts: 403/448 |
so anything based on faith is bogus?
well, you just your entire existence out the window |
SamuraiX
Posts: 9/140 |
Religious debate is an oxymoron, but there is a lot of religious argument. By this, I mean that religion is based on faith, not logic. |
Jovis
Posts: 26/34 |
I stay away from religion because of the problems it can cause. A lot of people prosecute you for your religion and don't even bother to get to know you just because you believe in something other than them.
Plus, I haven't had many chances in life to enjoy myself and would just end up blaming unseen gods if I could. I rather not sink that low :/ |
Ares
Posts: 41/47 |
Catholics vs. Protestants. Yeesh, guys, that was a minor flub! I'd hate to see what would happen if somebody actually said something truly ambiguous? |
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