Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - World Affairs / Debate - UK Elections
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Kasumi-Astra
Posts: 1483/1867 |
So yeah, that's why I support them. Lib Dems lose votes through tatical voting, as what happened this time. |
The SomerZ
Posts: 729/862 |
Well, that's not the point, Kasumi. I prefer Labour a lot more than Tory (though they are both too right-wing), but I'm talking about the fairness in the system. It should be in your interest, as a supporter of a smaller p |
Chronosphere-X
Posts: 111/268 |
Labour will win like normal. They all ways do, unless soming really big like, no tax is introduced from another party.
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Kasumi-Astra
Posts: 1421/1867 |
I'd rather Labour in power any day over the Tories. Personally, all I'm hoping for in my lifetime is a Labour in power, Lib Dems in opposition and Tories in last place. If the Lib Dems ever get elected in my lifetime it'll be fantastic. I don't think it'd be such a massive miracle, I mean when Tony Blair and Gordon Brown took on the Labour party, people had practically written them off forever. |
The SomerZ
Posts: 725/862 |
This is what's wrong with the Single-Member District Plurality System:
| Party | Percentage Votes | Percentage MPs | | Labour | 36% | 57% | | Tory | 33% | 32% | | Lib. Dems | 23% | 10% | | Others | 8% | 2% |
Please, please, tell me how this is fair? The SMDP system favours the big parties heavily! If Britain had had that result in a Proportional Representation system, I'm fairly sure they'd have a Tory/Lib. Dems coallition government now, and not a Labour one. |
Kasumi-Astra
Posts: 1393/1867 |
I agree that the trains were marginally better before privatisation. The conservatives brought decline to the once proud railways. We used to have a proud fleet of smart modern trains, but they've become old, overused and look like giant multicoloured billboards proudly displaying the companies' egos. The HSTs should've been retired when privatisation took place. They should've been retired with the "Intercity" Swallow livery, they were smart, uniformed and were on top of their game.
Their successor has only just been commissioned, and is currently being designed and engineered. Thankfully, people have overwhelmingly pleaded for power cars and carriages, with up to eight or nine coaches. This is probably mostly to do with Virgin's dire Voyagers, which were uncomfortable and poorly considered.
Perhaps it is only my perception that yob culture is becoming more common place. Maybe it's "Chav" culture that I despise. The celebration of cheap, crappy jewelery. Swearing. Spitting. Poor vocabulary. Under-age smoking. The popularity of becoming pregnant before 18. The pride in not having to work. Above all else, the lack of desire to become more varied, more enriched, more inteligent, more cultured.
Having said that, I still don't feel safe in a neighbourhood that used to be very, very safe. I *do* think that the relaxation of policing drinking and nightlife has something to do with it. I think laws should be tighter on drinking, to stop people from doing really stupid things. |
Fyxe
Posts: 1146/1160 |
Our train system is particularly poor, although that is mainly down to the Conservatives FUCKIN' EVERYTHING UP BY PRIVATISING IT. Now it's all a mess because it's a national system run by a whole bunch of companies and the difference between the quality from one section of the country to the next is just insane. Needs to be fixed, fast.
I'm not saying there's no problem with some 'youths', I'm just saying that it has always been there and what you're experiencing is more to do with perception than anything.
However, it is true that alot of young people have alot of free time, but I think this is just a side-effect of having such an affluant society. Also, I blame binge drinking for an increase in the perception of 'yobs'.
However, people should *not* feel threatened by young people. How many of the young people you see staggering drunkenly home in the evening are actually going to go about and stab someone? People are linking two seperate things together to create this stupid 'fear' of youngsters, like we're all raving psychos.
I've actually already voted Lib Dem (postal), but I'm in an area where it's Con Vs. Lib Dem with Labour trailing. If it had been Con Vs. Lab I would of voted Labour, and if it had been Lab Vs. Lib Dem I still would of voted Labour for fear of an overall Conservative victory.
Rather have the lesser of two evils (MUCH lesser, in this case) than have the evil evil.
Lets just be thankful we won't end up with Kilroy.
On the subject of Iraq, and the 'misleading'... You know, the whole 45 minute thing.. Did anyone actually hear *anything* about that until AFTER the war was over? Yet the media proclaimed this was the vital piece of evidence that Tony Blair was leading the country to war over. What bollocks. Nobody gave a damn about that one bit.
Also, EVERYONE thought Iraq had WMD of some kind. It wasn't Tony Blair misleading us, HE was the one who was mislead. Everyone was. I'm not saying I agree with the war, just that if say, the Conservatives were in power, the war may of happened even faster, and I seriously doubt there would be any kind of inquiry about it all. The dumb thing is, we've had a bunch of inquires, they're *all* said Tony Blair wasn't lying, and all people say is WHITEWASH. Just because they didn't get the result they wanted, they throw the word 'whitewash' around and continue to call the man a liar.
This war has been the most open war ever. Previously governments have just said 'ok, we're gonna go to war' and nobody could do shit about it. Our government has been very open about the war and whether you agree with it or not we should at least be glad about that. |
Kasumi-Astra
Posts: 1390/1867 |
Personally, I think they should get around to finally making some headway on a replacement to the High Speed Train before even thinking about nuclear weapons. A leading solution to our failing rail transport system needs to be developed. Not to mention a new solution to the network problems.
Britain used to be home to the most revolutionary and leading railway systems, much like many other things. However, it's all slipped into decline as the nation wallows in self pity and bitches about things that don't really matter. We're still using the trains that were introduced in the late seventies. It's a magnificant testament to the trains and their designers / engineers that they're still pulling services thousands of miles across the country.
However, they're being neglected, and the autorities running the railways are demanding more of the network and the trains than they were ever meant to deliver.
A completely new system, with new lines, track, trains, infrastructure and signalling needs to be developed. Unfortunately, we've turned into a gigantic Robbie the Robot and we're depressed to give a shit.
I wish more people would realise the great things this nation could produce if we put our mind to it and had a little faith. |
The SomerZ
Posts: 721/862 |
Any thoughts on this? |
Kasumi-Astra
Posts: 1382/1867 |
I'm completely Lib Dem.
I'm afraid I have to disagree when it comes to gang culture. I am 100% sure that the town that I have grown up in is seeing more young people on street corners and threatening behavior. Seriously, I live in a middle class housing estate and had very little trouble growing up, but in the last five years I was attacked by strangers and there was a stabbing five minutes away from my house. Ok, so it's not exactly Brixton, but that's precisely my poiny. Ordinary towns in the UK are seeing an increase in anti-social behavior and crime.
People should not have to feel threatened by young people. Young people need a new focus and something positive to work for to get them off the streets for good. Short term election winning strategies are certainly not working.
When it comes to Blair, the only beef I have with him is the way he and his government treated the public in the run up to the Iraq war. He completely mislead the country so he could assure the US that we were with them, and he also pushed it down our throats that we owed the US allegiance. He said that we've always stood shoulder by shoulder. He also let relationships with France slip down the drain.
So while he was speaking about our ties with the US, where did that leave our long history with France? Personally, I think the times we've put our heads together as nations we've done better and more magnificant things than we've ever done with the US. Concorde? Channel Tunnel? How quickly these engineering masterpieces were forgotten for a war. |
Fyxe
Posts: 1137/1160 |
This 'yob culture' thing is one of those 'hooks' that politians and tabloids love throwing around, despite the fact that crime and 'gang' culture has not increased. The perception of it is that it has increased, even though it hasn't. Remember the days of Mods and Rockers? Nothing like that these days. No, but as soon as tabloids start making assumptions about inceases in 'yobs', everyone jumps on the bandwagon. It's one of those words tabloids just love chucking around.
The Conservatives are one step away from the BNP ideals of owning guns to 'protect our homes' and shooting fleeing robbers in the back. Once criminals start feeling the threat of death from homeowners, that won't stop them from commiting crimes to fuel their drug addictions or whatever, it will just lead them to carry lethal weapons of their own and instead it will be the homeowners who start getting killed. Then we'll head towards the murder rate of US.
Personally I want the Liberal Democrats to win, although I don't hate Labour (certainly not, although I also don't hate Tony Blair). I think people are too quick to assume that Tony Blair is a liar, I think he's a very honest man (at least by political standards) who has had one flaw; having to go along with America in the war. But it's not like he had much choice in that matter. Better to be friends and have some influence with the big rich country with all the guns than be their enemy and have no influence, correct?
Certainly, under Labour we have had the most stable country since, well, ever. |
The SomerZ
Posts: 708/862 |
Actually, it is a lot like the US. The voting system is the same, Single-Member District Plurality, and in many constituencies you only have 2 realistic options. It's just that unlike the US, where the Dems and Reps are the only options in any constituency, it can vary in the UK. One constituency can have Labour vs. Tory, another has Labour vs. Lib Dems, etc. etc... Some of course, show a realistic oportunity for all 3 big parties.
It's still nowhere as fair as a country with proportional representation. Take the Green Party, for instance. They currently hold no seats in Parliament. Had the UK have had proportional representation, though, they would have had seats in Parliament, along with many other minor parties. |
Ailure
Posts: 9448/11162 |
Same true for Sweden, the average Svensson dosen't care either. :/
Althought, if parts of America was still a colony I bet that people would follow the elections more throughly.Originally posted by Kasumi Skywalker
The Lib Dems are a fantastic party, although as Ziff has already pointed out, they stand little chance of being elected at the moment. It's a shame really, because the average member of the British public couldn't give a flying crap about politics, they just vote how their best friend is voting, or the party that the Sun supports (the Sun being a Murdoch newspaper, the most distributed English language newspaper in the world).
I hate when people vote on someone just becuse they're friends or family voted on the same. This happens more or less to the same extent in many countries. I can say that I don't like any of the current parties so I have been thinking on starting my own. Doubt it would be any succeful but I could try for a election or two. 
How many people usually votes in UK on each election in percentages? And how many parties are likely to get into the goverment? At least it isn't like in US, where there is two big parties and you "throw away your vote" if you vote on anything else. And I find that sad... |
The SomerZ
Posts: 706/862 |
Acmlm's needs more Western Europeans, in general. Discussing UK elections isn't the most interesting thing, though. I think most non-Uk Europeans actually cared more about following the American elections than the UK ones (the media here in Norway had lots of stats even from the Democratic primaries and the American election broadcast was sent on live TV (late, late at night, because of time zones). In contrast, the media has hardly mentioned the UK election, and I'm pretty sure the average Ola (that would be Norwegian for Joe) wouldn't even know they were having an election over there). |
Kefka
Posts: 2818/3392 |
This topic clearly shows that we need more Western European scholarly representation at Acmlm's... because clearly there are not enough people that have a clue about this topic. Then again, this topic has led me to read English newslines more. |
The SomerZ
Posts: 704/862 |
And I apologize if I sounded cross in my wording. Didn't intend to offend you in any way, if I did. I reread my post and realized I may have done so. |
Kefka
Posts: 2773/3392 |
Pardon me, SomerZ. I am one of those people that is never really into politics, ever, so I really have no clue what's going on in the world usually, nor how it works.  Seriously.
I apologize for the bad wording. |
The SomerZ
Posts: 699/862 |
Originally posted by Admiral Kefbar
England is the place where the outcome of the Parliament decides which party gets to select the prime minister, right?
That should be "[The UK] is [one of] the place[s] where the outcome of [] Parliament decides which party gets to select the prime minister, right?". The UK is more than England, and MPs are elected from all over The UK, thusly the thread title should also be changed. I know I may sound a little anal about this, but I know how much stuff like this pisses off my sister, who only lives in Scotland, so I can't even imagine how annoying it must be to an actual Scotsman (or Welshman, or Northern Irishman).
And the system you are referring to is called Parliamentarism, and it is used in many countries aroudn the world.
Now, then, the little test there told me I should vote Green. I'm not surprised at all, seeing as how I'm a socialist environmentalist. Voting in the UK would have been a horrible, though. Seeing as how all of the three big parties are much too right-wing for my liking.
dan
Posts: 542/782 |
My brother pointed me to this website. Quite interesting, except for the fact it told me I should vote for the UKIP.  (I got like -33 for Labour, which I thought was quite interesting)
Anyway, I won't be voting in this election. It's a combination of apathy and the fact I'm not registered to vote. Besides, living in Northern Ireland, we don't really get to choose who makes the big decisions, due to the suspended assembly, and the fact we went back to home rule.
Not to mention the fact that the major unionist parties over here are truly terrible. The DUP seem to base their entire election campaign on how the world will end if they aren't elected, the UUP have lost too much of the vote to make it worth voting for them (also, one of their election advertisements has really turned me off, with it's great slogan "If you are a decent person, vote UUP"). |
Kasumi-Astra
Posts: 1372/1867 |
Yep, that's true.
Thatcher had a bitter sweet affect on Britain, and I definately think that she was good for the country in the beginning, but towards the end she'd outstayed her welcome. That's mostly true now.
The Lib Dems are a fantastic party, although as Ziff has already pointed out, they stand little chance of being elected at the moment. It's a shame really, because the average member of the British public couldn't give a flying crap about politics, they just vote how their best friend is voting, or the party that the Sun supports (the Sun being a Murdoch newspaper, the most distributed English language newspaper in the world).
Our local government back home is Lib Dems, and I think most people in my area like it that way. Until the Lib Dems stand a chance of being elected, they'll keep pushing to become the opposition. And with the Conservatives getting weaker, and the Lib Dems getting stronger, that might just happen in the next few elections  |
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