| User | Post |
ExKeeper
Posts: 237/512 |
I am currently fixing all of my levels (along with fixing the status bar problems) with these principles |
Sendy
Posts: 79/93 |
Originally posted by Kyouji Craw
That's pretty much covered by #4, JJ 
Hmmm... I added one on atmosphere and referenced it in other parts. I initially meant to (there were some references to it in parts of it) but I seem to have forgotten. Thank you for reminding me, Sendy. Y'know, I have to say... I respect you.
Cool of you to say so, and the feeling's pretty mutual. Sometimes I'm suprised at the way you'll zoom straight into the negative on people's work, but then I think that has the effect of raising the bar. And like me I can tell you do actually care and know about design/etc.. A lot of people round here just want to MAKE TEH 1337 HAXX!!!!!!!    |
Shyguy
Posts: 676/1998 |
Where do we start, though? There's total depletion of awesome everywhere! Quite tedious it is. |
Glyph Phoenix
Posts: 199/745 |
That's what's wrong with the world. Not global warming, not war, not the gathering darkness, but the global depletion of awesome from people in general. Soon we'll all wither away and drown in a sea of lameness. We gotta start a protest or something. |
Shyguy
Posts: 659/1998 |
Flamin' yawn, Kyouji. Flamin' yawn....... I found out what that means. 
I would provide a screenie, but I'm too lazy to rename a duplicate of my rom. |
Alastor the Stylish
Posts: 5910/7620 |
While random smileys IS stupid, it's mainly just the sunglasses smiley I have a problem with. It's not cool 
And no, not deplete your status as awesome, deplete your awesome. Most of you people don't have much left, which is where *every bit counts*. |
Shyguy
Posts: 657/1998 |
He means random use of smilies can deplete your status as awesome. |
Bowser_k
Posts: 31/70 |
Why do you say that makes you look dumb. Grrgh. |
Alastor the Stylish
Posts: 5908/7620 |
hhallahh: I didn't say you're shallow. You are correct about the difficulty of atmosphere. It really is impossible to explain well... But anyway, really, I just don't think that a definitive feel for a hack is not enough to make it good. Having a specific feel doesn't make something fun in and of itself, after all... The thing is, though, is that there aren't really any examples of someone utilizing atmosphere very well and still failing for me to point to here, because if you can make a good atmosphere, you're in general also capable of good level design, and thus are quite likely to make usage of it. That doesn't mean it's impossible, though.
Bowser_k: A screen or two, you say? While I can't say I understand why you think that will help, I can do this for you.
I won't, though. No example so small would actually tell anything interesting, and if it was good, people would just copy it exactly... Hence my refraining from posting examples. You use the advice in your own way... I mean, that's the point, isn't it? You don't do exactly what I do, though following the guidelines I laid out is probably a good idea... But those are never so specific that they give you exact directions on what to do, because doing so stifles the creative process, which wasn't exactly my intention.
Now the the best advice I can give you, specifically, is in a completely different field.
Never use the sunglasses smiley. If you use it, you just look dumb. In fact, if you use it, you're drained of your body's natural awesome and are doomed to fade in to |
hhallahh
Posts: 543/607 |
I'd like to note that atmosphere alone will definately sell a hack to me. Maybe I'm shallow? But a hack with great atmosphere would have to have pretty terrible design otherwise in order to turn me off.
Unfortunately, as the post implies, atmosphere is something which is almost impossible to "explain". You can either create it or you can't, I imagine... |
Bowser_k
Posts: 27/70 |
Hey, could you give an example of what you'd say is *A Good Level*
How bout a screen or two!. |
cpubasic13
Posts: 967/1346 |
Level design is key. Without level design, what does a hack have? Well, if there are no levels, you can't put in graphics or ASM hacks to be used for that matter. So without level design being good, odds are the level won't be good.
I totaly agree with the flow of a level. If you can still play the level over and over, it works. Plus, the only time you should make a frustrating level is when you have a special world, which can always have exceptions. However, if there is no special world, then these principles should be followed.
So... good work Kyouji.
For the atmosphere, though, you say you want a castle... well, castly. What about in my hack where the castles are going to be anthills? I guess I would have to make them... anthilly... or part-anthill part-castle...
...don't ask... |
Alastor the Stylish
Posts: 5894/7620 |
Well you DID give me the idea, and a lot of your reasoning was used... So... That's not terribly hard to believe. |
DisruptiveIdiot
Posts: 69/147 |
This is all totally true, I do detect a bit of my speech in this topic though  |
Alastor the Stylish
Posts: 5890/7620 |
Smallhacker: I tried to cover the graphics are still important in both #1 and #6, heh. And I tried not to cover ASM in too much detail, since most of the people here can't work with it. I mean, it can be a very useful tool which you can use for awesome things... However, it's not necessary, and inventive use of what's already there can sometimes produce the same results.
JJ: Alright. I'll add something to it about that. Later, I mean... I'm tired of this... |
Smallhacker
Posts: 1510/2273 |
My opinion in the Level Design vs. Graphics vs. ASM:
All of them are important.
Level Design is the most important thing. Good level design equals fun to play. Period.
Graphics is also important. This adds next to nothing to the fun to play value. However, a hack with good graphics makes more people interested, meaning that more people will play it. I mean... If you're posting a few screen shots with ugly graphics, next to nobody will be interested, since it's hard to judge the level design.
ASM is pretty important. It makes people more interested, like with graphics. The best thing about ASM is that it allows you to do what SMW normally wouldn't let you to. Also, a bunch of nice ASM hacks makes the hack (mostly) more original. |
Juggling Joker
Posts: 737/1033 |
It's covered broadly, yes, but I'd like to see it laid out in plain english. Avoiding things like pipes not working or getting killed by a poorly placed exits or anything else that renders a hack unplayable is a given. I'm talking little things, like using enemies from the wrong tilesets cuz "it looks cool" (which sadly enough, some people actually think) or forcing the player to make use of skill tricks like holding two items at once. I absolutely hate things like that. They completely ruin what would otherwise be good hacks because the designer didn't take time to polish things up. |
Alastor the Stylish
Posts: 5888/7620 |
That's pretty much covered by #4, JJ
Hmmm... I added one on atmosphere and referenced it in other parts. I initially meant to (there were some references to it in parts of it) but I seem to have forgotten. Thank you for reminding me, Sendy. Y'know, I have to say... I respect you. |
Juggling Joker
Posts: 736/1033 |
I think something needs to be said about releasing hacks with avoidable glitches, kthx. |
Schwa
Posts: 1306/2214 |
Kyouji, well said. I agree with you 110% with your views on level construction.
Please, guys, let's give a round of applause for K. Craw and his righteous anger. This guy is officially our most powerful weapon against nOObs.
*claps vigorously* Well done, well done! |
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labmaster
