| User | Post |
Arwon
Posts: 276/506 |
So you're not suggesting citizenship should be made conditional on English skills or that people should be compelled to learn it? |
||bass
Posts: 317/817 |
Libertarian views should NOT change a decision about offical English. Offical English is about GOVERNMENT language use, not PERSONAL. |
The SomerZ
Posts: 687/862 |
I'm wondering, where does this whole "we need an official language"-statement fit in with your libertarian views, Vystrix Nexoth? |
alte Hexe
Posts: 3634/5458 |
Official language for documentation, sure.
Enforced language of EVERYTHING. No. |
iamhiro1112
Posts: 385/487 |
Making english the official language would be another slap in the face to the lands original inhabitants.
Uncle Sam: You remember how I took you away from your family and forced you to learn my prefered language?
Native American: Yes
Uncle Sam: Good, I just wanted to remind you. Ha ha. BTW, I'm removing your casinos tax exempt status too. Suck it. |
Gavin
Posts: 640/799 |
i hate to take this atittude, but because history is written by (and in the language of?) the winner? And what i mean by that is simple. I'd like to think that, as it stands now, the region as a whole is more stable and less likely subject to any further aberrations in which it is not controlled by America. (I've not studied empire/national life-cycles, so correct me if i'm wrong.) The united states government (for better or worse) now controls the area and it seems we'll be around for a bit. The majority of the population have in the past and currently speak english, it's well entwined in our culture and government. So, to me, it seems only logical that the official langauge be english.
It's not really comparable to the situation in the USSR because everyone in our country already speaks english. It is, as you and VN both pointed out, the acting/de facto langauge.
I don't understand why you are putting this idea at the feet of our politicians as there has actually been little or no drive for giving our country an official language that i can recall. the country, if i can make that assesment, would seem to me to be rather cool about the issue, siding with having an official language but in the end not really feeling strongly enough to pursue it.
At any rate, your wording seems to be speaking out against the very idea of a national language for any country. Would you be condeming any modern country that was seeking to establish an official langauge? It would seem strange to me that we are not entitled, should we even choose that the issue is of even heft, to what most other countries already have. |
Arwon
Posts: 275/506 |
So given this transitory and contestable occupation of the continent, why should English get enshrined hegemony just because of an aberation where English speakers dominate the southwest?
If the vernacular of a region is changing, surely the official organs should respect and respond to this rather than trying to impose THEIR ideas about language on the populace. (SPEAK LATIN, DAMN YOU! Or if you wanna more recent example, how about the enforcement of Russian in the minority regions of the USSR or enforcement of Castillian in Fascist Spain)
Besides which, by the second generation, immigrants to any country usually pick up the dominant language, people get too worked up for nothing over ALIEN MIGRANTS NOT FITTING IN OMFG. And this new concern with enshrining English is basically a reflection of nationalist disease with immigration. |
Gavin
Posts: 638/799 |
Originally posted by Arwon
I don't suppose it's worth pointing out that the Southwestern part of the country, the bit people are so keen to "preserve" as English-speaking, belonged to Spanish-speakers before y'all stole it?
only as much as it worth pointing out that the Spainiards themselves stole it too. they did it first!  |
||bass
Posts: 315/817 |
I don't feel all that bad for those unwilling to learn English in the US. If someone wants to have a 2nd rate job and live a 2nd rate lifestyle because they don't want to put the effort to learn the language well enough to get a bettar job then by all means....
As far as government buisness goes. The fact that grade school in the US isn't required to be taught in English is a serious problem. The whole point of an education system is to prepare people to function in society (to an extent). How can you claim to be doing that in the US without requiring use of the English language? I don't know.... |
Arwon
Posts: 274/506 |
I don't suppose it's worth pointing out that the Southwestern part of the country, the bit people are so keen to "preserve" as English-speaking, belonged to Spanish-speakers before y'all stole it? |
Gavin
Posts: 634/799 |
well, i know the issue was raised in the greater context of the discussion of america's ongoing battle with illegal immigration, spurred by the alleged fact that naturalization along our mexican boarder isn't conducted in English, but rather spanish. this idea, along with the percieved notion that those who immigrate to our country are unwilling to at least "meet us half-way" in terms of cultural processes, and the argument that it hinders their assimilation and potential success in the country, are somewhat valid points..
i can't say at this time i see a great need for an official language, but mostly that is because i'm not framiliar with the topic or the percieved benifits. Although in all honesty, when i first heard some half-witted argument against English as an official language (some weeks ago), my first knee-jerk reaction was anger and frustration.
i really see no valid argument against it whatsoever, but at the same time i do not see/understand the great need for it. Is it rooted in econmics/politics or just national pride for the native tongue of our predecessors? |
Jagori
Posts: 199/267 |
I'd have to say I'm not entirely clear on what goes on in the US as far as official proceedings go, but aren't they done in English? I'm a little uncertain about the practical differences between your current situation there and making English the official language. Sounds to me like there wouldn't be much difference... do you ever find official documents that aren't in English?
I don't think having an official language can really be compared to having an official religion. First off, not everyone follows a religion, and for those who do, there's a huge range of degrees of devoutness, not to mention the fact that people of different religions (barring radical fundamentalists) can function together. Everyone "follows" a language very closely, and it must be the same language as other people for communication purposes.
Having an official language doesn't "outlaw" other languages... here, the official languages are English and French, and that simply means that all government documents have to be in both English and French, and any government employee must be bilingual since people interacting with the government have the right to request service in French. That's about the extent of the practical effects. People still speak other languages all the time, and observe their own cultures freely. |
Arwon
Posts: 273/506 |
Why do the people on that site hate Spanish so much?
Tis a pretty languge. |
||bass
Posts: 314/817 |
You all should probably find this page fairly informative: http://www.us-english.org/inc/official/ |
Tamarin Calanis
Posts: 446/1802 |
Originally posted by Anya
Which one, mine?
No, mine. Which is why I removed it and added that "Edit:" line, rather than delete it.
Now who's confused?
Anyway, it's a good thing I removed it; thinking about it (while playing RC Pro-Am 2) made me change my mind.
While it would be nice to officially establish English as an official language, that probably wouldn't make anyone learn English that wasn't going to already. This removes the only possible reason to even bother establishing it as an official language that I can think of, which means - I don't see the point. |
alte Hexe
Posts: 3611/5458 |
It is you official language. All government documents are written in it, therefore it is enshrined and an unwritten law.
I feel that in the US of A there would be a few problems with making a direct official language. Primarily the assimilative government policies. I'm thinking that if you were to adopt a pragmatic system of language distribution, it would work. But I'd assume there'd be insane opposition to this. I know talking to a few Yankeedoodledoos that they are angry that in NYC there are Chinese signs in Chinatown and feel that it is unfair for Americans. God only knows what they would do when they come to Toronto and find signs in Russian, Italian, Greek, and many other languages |
windwaker
Posts: 1407/1797 |
*First on-topic reply*
I, personally, feel that there's no need for an official language in the U.S. Of course, if there was, it would be english, no doubting that, though I feel that there are so many minorities in America that speak different languages, that this would overall be pointless.
I mean, is it a big problem at the moment, especially in the scheme of everything going on? |
Anya
Posts: 4658/5337 |
Which one, mine? My comment was made towards Kario, who is known as Sawnec. Sorry for the confusion, that wasn't my intention. |
Tamarin Calanis
Posts: 444/1802 |
Edit: Y'know what? That post made no sense. I just don't want to delete it and get someone mad at me for that. =/ |
Anya
Posts: 4656/5337 |
Kario, please, thanks for the help, but its not needed and the staff has been talking about the whole avatar situation for a while now. Trust me, there's worse things on this board than an avatar of a male with an open chest.
If I didn't know better, it just seems like you're trying to cause up trouble. Let the staff deal with the stress, if you have any sort of beef, take up in an instant message or within a PM, please, don't break topic on something that you're either trying to fix or trying to stir up. Honetly, I doubt anyone wants to read it.
Your thoughts are wanted of course, but acting like staff and doing what was dalready said above, isn't the way to go, okay. |
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