Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - General Gaming - What Are the needs of what you believe the best RPG's are made of?
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Grey the Stampede
Posts: 1804/3770 |
Well, one of the reasons why I hated FF8 was because the common person picking up the game would normally think summoning giant monsters constantly would be the best battle tactic, only to find that they are screwed beyond all reason late in the game, and that only gamers who really understood the junctioning system would be able to take advantage of it.
Ah, that's what I forgot. A good RPG needs to have a system (stats, battle, job progression, whatever it is) to it that is both accessible to casual gamers, and completely able to be blown open by hardcore players. |
RT-55J
Posts: 8/240 |
My criteria:
A flaming hot chick.
A good ratio to follow is- 15 minutes of gameplay : 3 minutes of plot
One of the main characters should die. (ex. Tellah in FF4)
Healthy doses of Engrish.
Creative non-generic plot
Memorable music.
Plenty of side-quests
Originally posted by Grey
Graphics are not a must; the only situation where I think they'd be a boon would be if you happen to have long, drawn out summoning sequences that you really use constantly (E.G. FFVIII). If you're gonna see those summons all the time, you might as well think they're pretty to look at.
As far as FF 8 is concerned, using summons in battle is pointless. Any decent FF 8 player would tell you that junctioning + physical = pwnage. |
Valcion
Posts: 751/1139 |
a good RPG needs to have a lot of replay value, and a lot of stuff to do.
Story's always nice, too.
Hot girls are a bonus. |
Ailure
Posts: 8150/11162 |
Have a nice girl in a game you make, that is sexy or so... then expect the same charachter getting drawn in quite nice situations. 
To be honest, I could understand if you find a charachter hot in a RPG but if it goes in the direction that you wouldn't ever have some other girl... get help.  |
Grey the Stampede
Posts: 1799/3770 |
Jeez.... We have a thread about hot FF girls... |
Xeolord
Posts: 1401/3418 |
Originally posted by The Guru of Furu
Oh, good point about the badguys. I thought Delita was one of the best villains in a game, because you knew he wasn't a purely evil person, it was just his circumstances and stuff that forced him down that path. Definately FFT had some of the coolest character development, all the different factions and alliances constantly changing, that was cool. I think having a great number of "villains" who are constantly switching sides and stuff was a great idea, but it really only works in a game with that kind of setting.
Completely agreed. Delita was very much like Jowy from Suikoden II.
(Trapster, Quistis is where it's at.  ) |
Ran-chan
Posts: 7808/12781 |
I |
drjayphd
Posts: 892/1477 |
Grey gets dap of the highest order for invoking Laharl. Disgaea's got some of the keys to a good RPG:
* Not falling into the cliches of standard-issue RPG's (hiya, Cloud... FF7...pretty much everything everyone else has ever complained about regarding the Final Fantasy series).
* A GOOD sense of humor (Laharl getting used do demonstrate the most dangerous of tasks, like not letting yourself getting gangbanged in fights).
And I haven't even gotten very far yet at all. 
Love stories, I don't care about. Especially if it neuters a strong character. Oh, and SS's got a point. No flowing capes. For anyone. And no comically huge implements or body parts. We get it. (continues being crochety) |
The Guru of Furu
Posts: 138/240 |
Oh, good point about the badguys. I thought Delita was one of the best villains in a game, because you knew he wasn't a purely evil person, it was just his circumstances and stuff that forced him down that path. Definately FFT had some of the coolest character development, all the different factions and alliances constantly changing, that was cool. I think having a great number of "villains" who are constantly switching sides and stuff was a great idea, but it really only works in a game with that kind of setting. |
Grey the Stampede
Posts: 1790/3770 |
I've always loved RPGs that have some kind of strong individuality, or an interactive battle system. I got a kick out of Legend of Dragoon for a while because you actually participated in battle. Same with M&L S and Paper Mario. I loved Earthbound (and still think it's the greatest RPG ever made) because it was just so way far out there that no other RPG could match it in quirkiness. I mean, come on. It's got its own BLUES BAND, and one of the strongest bosses is a tiny little toy robot thingie that you don't even get to kill.
As far as story goes, it all really boils down to "save X from Y and win the game" anyway, so I can't say main plot is as exciting as character development. I enjoyed Suikoden III not because of the engaging story, it was really good, but I paid more attention to the character development (especially in Geddoe's crew).
Graphics are not a must; the only situation where I think they'd be a boon would be if you happen to have long, drawn out summoning sequences that you really use constantly (E.G. FFVIII). If you're gonna see those summons all the time, you might as well think they're pretty to look at.
I think psychotic villains that start out small and grow gigantic, like Kefka or Pokey, are the best of the lot. Realistic villains are cool too, like Rufus or Delita, but they're only really realistic if they're exactly on the level with your heroes, which is why I gave Delita the nod in this one. He's a bad guy for sure, though he doesn't show it til the very end of Final Fantasy Tactics, but at the same time, when it comes right down to brass tacks he's not really that strong.
Love stories are good; I just hate the "Helpless heroine" angle, and thereby hate Aeris, whom many people I've met use as the example of a perfect romantic subplot character (especially in conjunction with Guru's claim that an RPG needs a tragedy to happen to the heroes). There is no reason whatsoever why a girl should be portrayed as weak or helpless in a video game, and that statement is justified, ironically, by the existence of Aeris' opposite, Tifa. Tifa is what I would call a good character for a romantic subplot. She's physically and emotionally strong, one of the better characters in FFVII to have in battle and capable of handling stressful situations with ease (see also: execution chamber, followed by bitch slap fight with Ruby). I know for a fact if I were an RPG hero, I wouldn't want my girlfriend getting hurt by the horrific forces of evil, so I'd make sure she was able to defend herself before I dated her.
Unorthodoxy, again, helps out a lot. Sometimes, having a hero that's on the opposite side of the law (like Laharl or Barrett) can be just as heroic as having one that obeys every law presented in front of him with no questions (Steiner, Chris from Suikoden III). Even the bad guy turned good angle works well, especially when you consider what happened to Bowser in SMRPG, or Beatrice in FFIX. The trick is to make it implicit, you can't just have a bad guy go "Oh, I made a mistake so I'll join you now", you have to have them come to some kind of realization over time.
So, characters, spells, plot, romance, unorthodoxy, and what am I missing... *reads TheMageous' post* Ah, humor! You can't have an RPG that doesn't make you laugh somehow. Even FFVIII had moments I thought were funny, whether they were intentional or not, and I hated FFVIII. Just goes to show that a little humor can go a long way.
Barring all of this, an RPG can still be good if there's some kind of deepness to it. Kingdom Hearts has some of the most uninspired (read: DISNEY) characters in it that I've ever seen, yet I still loved it because of the little things I noticed, like the Ansem Reports or the dozens of little side quests you can do. Not only that, even though the characters were transparent and derivative, the relationships between them were made extremely clear, and helped enrich the game to a point where I can't wait to see what happens next, even if I somehow already know. Plus, there's always room for a plot twist.
OK, that's about it from me, I'm sure you're all bored to tears with what I've said by now. If I have anything else I wanted to add, I'm sure I'll post it anyway. Good luck keeping your eyes dry then. |
Xeolord
Posts: 1387/3418 |
Originally posted by Tamarin Calanis
Originally posted by Kasumi-Astra
Nothing ruins an RPG more than a villain that is introduced after the mid point. FFVIII and IX spring to mind for suprise final bosses / villains (In VIII's case, Seipher would've made a more appropriate final boss).
FFIV screwed up there, too. You spend most of the game chasing Golbez, then you go a while without knowing who the main villain is, then Zemus/Zeromus come out of nowhere. 
But, Zeromus was cool.
But yeah, it's still true and does delude the feeling of that "cool villian" in a game.
I definintely have to agree with Silvershield and what others have said though, a "cool villian" brings an interesting idea.
Here's a fact though!
A villain who's a god and almighty = sucks.
A villain who knows pain, has their weaknesses and shows that = rocks!
Basically an overpowered villain who is just some super / unstopable almighty being in my mind is just completely lame.
I can't really put into words what I'm trying to say here. 
But really, a villain who's "human" and just has his "ideas and opinions" that, to him seem good, shows a cool and good villain.
This goes for heros / main characters too.
The ultimate [super FF] cliche', you're some normal guy with some abnormal super power bent on saving the entire world.
This is where I thought the Suikoden series mastered. By the end of the games, you come to realize you've saved, a country, not the world, yet if done correctly it's probably more rewarding.
Again, that's ... really roughly put into words, so sorry. 
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Tamarin Calanis
Posts: 330/1802 |
Originally posted by Kasumi-Astra
Nothing ruins an RPG more than a villain that is introduced after the mid point. FFVIII and IX spring to mind for suprise final bosses / villains (In VIII's case, Seipher would've made a more appropriate final boss).
FFIV screwed up there, too. You spend most of the game chasing Golbez, then you go a while without knowing who the main villain is, then Zemus/Zeromus come out of nowhere. |
Kasumi-Astra
Posts: 1238/1867 |
Villain: A Villain has to be strong, and have radical plans for the world. He doesn't have to be mad, he can be completely level headed to want to destroy the world.
Also, he's got to be tied into the story and the main character so the agenda becomes personal.
He's got to be tied into the plot from an early stage. Nothing ruins an RPG more than a villain that is introduced after the mid point. FFVIII and IX spring to mind for suprise final bosses / villains (In VIII's case, Seipher would've made a more appropriate final boss).
I hate to say it, but a hot female character does help It's the classic fairytale save the princess plotlines that provide a lot of motivation in RPGs
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Darth Roflbbq
Posts: 88/299 |
Ooh... Wait, dont they sometimes trip in Tales of Symphonia?
I think that was it, but it might have been some other game. I've played too many lately (well, it's been too long in between games).
Anyway, I think of EVERYONE's essentials, there is a general like of:
a) A good villian and good protaganists
b) A good storyline
c) Some, but not overpowering, humor
d) Likeable music, graphics, etc.
e) Not unbeatable, or seemingly unbeatable fights/areas (Ultima 6, I couldn't even find out how to get out of the first area. I hate that game )
f) A hook to make it different from other games, or just a good review, a good series, etc.
g) A hot chick () |
Kario
Posts: 1285/2082 |
Don't ask me why, but I find there is one thing lacking from every game in every genre. No game has it. Characters should be able to trip. Your runnning down a path to a magical giant earthworm, and there happens to be a rock, you trip over the rock and smack your face into the ground. Can't ya just see it? |
Colin
Posts: 7006/11302 |
Fifth, there has to be some form of ninja (very personal, dont ask)
If that's what tickles your fancy, then go play Inindo for the SNES. You'll have your FILL of ninjas after that one. 
I'm sure there's been RPG's before with stellar storylines but average gameplay. I can't think of anything specific off the top of my head but I'm sure there's some that people slugged through just to see how things winded up. For the best examples of "average/generic storylines with good gameplay" you'd have to go back to the 8/16-bit days. |
The Guru of Furu
Posts: 137/240 |
Good point, I went back and read what I posted and realized that there was a strong Xenogears leaning in about everything I was writing. That probably is attributed to the fact that I just started playing it again so maybe my suggestions are just what I love about Xenogears and not necessary for every game. But I definately agree that the villain has to be done right for any game to be succesful. |
Silvershield
Posts: 330/345 |
Though I'll not address the whole list now, I will comment on what I'd consider a pivotal element of any RPG: the villain. Just as in a convincing novel, the absolute prime factor when creating the bad guy is making him believable. Certainly, his ability to level entire cities with a snap of his fingers is badass, but then how do our valiant heroes manage to overcome him? They probably possess no such power, yet they succeed somehow.
I'm tired of the mega-villain who wears all black, dons a flowing cape, laughs evilly, and is so incredibly mysterious and reclusive that even the simplest details of his person are unknown. A clear and present enemy can be just as effective, I think: when your antagonist is in plain sight, perhaps serving in a public office or holding some sort of status within the society, the situation becomes all the more interesting.
And he needs flaws, as well as human traits, always. "Well, the protagonists kill him, so he must be flawed somehow" is not acceptable. He may be unrepentingly evil, but maybe he yearns for a lost love. Perhaps he has a taste for fine cuisine. Maybe our villain actually prefers cute puppies over snakes, ravens, or demons as pets. Maybe he's human. "Wanting to conquer the world" is possibly an acceptable goal of his, but it can't be the motive as well; give your villain a reason for what he does, and you'll add volumes to the story. And, we can all agree, the story makes the RPG. |
Xeolord
Posts: 1377/3418 |
It depends on the players, really.
I know several people who play RPG's for absolutely NOTHING but the storyline.
I'm not like that at all though. Yes, having a great storyline [FFVI, CT, SoM, Suikoden 1 and 2, etc] makes the game even better, but I personally still look for good gameplay mechanics.
There's even some games where I enjoyed the gameplay much more than the storyline itself, even if it had a medicore storyline. [Arc the Lad Collection]
Music and the setting also make the game more lively, like you can feel it. With RPG Maker, that can be harder to do, but I can asure you there's been plenty of RPG's for the SNES and other older systems where I've completely loved the setting and musical style.
So really "I" myself like balance in RPG's. An RPG can have an incredible storyline, but I could dislike it if it had horrible gameplay, or vice versa. Maybe that's being picky, but that's my opinion on this. |
Darth Roflbbq
Posts: 86/299 |
I think with RPGs:
First, it has to look at least somewhat pretty (since I do NOT like spending half my life playing games, then discovering I was looking at the hot chick, thinking it was the main character)
Second, there has to be a super hot chick
There will be no thirds in my lists.
Fourth, the battle system must be somewhat enjoyable
Fifth, there has to be some form of ninja (very personal, dont ask)
Sixth, there needs to be the essentials, good story, insane villian, addictive minigames, huge swords and/or guns, death, etc. etc.
That's my personal list, I dont know about everyone here. |
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