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Main - Secret of Mana Hacking - SoM Retranslation and Expansion (translator needed) New thread | New reply

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Thanatos-Zero
Posted on 06-13-15 10:22 AM Link | Quote | ID: 160306


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Greetings everyone.

I recently joined RedScorpion's latest project to help him make it a reality. The retranslation of Secret of Mana, which is known as Seiken
Densetsu 2 in its original form.

As many of you know, the translator of the time Ted Woolsey, who was tasked with its translation back then, had a very unreasonable
deadline to met. Namely one month of time. As a result the translation was not only rushed, but also needed to be cut down, because
the data banks were not made for roman letters. In addition as the data banks couldn't be extented in time, Ted had no time to double
check his translations as well as he needed to improvise alot when he himself didn't understood the meaning of certain sentences.

The german version didn't fare much better in comparison, as Claude E. Moyse faced the same problems. Also he was told by Square to
make it funny. While it worked for us german kids, we are now grown ups and cannot find the same sort of joy reading the lines.

We intent to change that, thanks to FuSoYa's VWF and Moppy's Editor. First of all, while we intend to retranslate the game in both
english and german, we also plan to expand the game with the cut material and come closer to the original intent of the creators, back
when the project started as a SNES-CD game.
http://www.seikens.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3556

While we searched for the cut material, we found out to our suprise, that Chrono Trigger is the result of the unused ideas and concepts
of the original SNES-CD game.
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/950181-chrono-trigger/65153017
http://thefbe.com/chrono-trigger-and-secret-of-mana-originate-from-the-same-project/
http://www.squareenixmusic.com/features/liners/seikendensetsubox.shtml

While we cannot insert all of Chrono Trigger into it as well, we might just take the ideas and make them more fitting for Seiken
Densetsu 2.

However while we of the german Seiken Densetsu community would like to go out as soon as possible, we still need a translator,
who can help us to come as close as possible to the original, and even more to the original SNES-CD content.

Our wish is to expand on a properly retranslated original, because it feels right that way.

Here also the text dump of Seiken Densetsu 2 and Woolsey's translation.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1eUpvNb00soej3fHEFIX5zA_hRH70tLYA65UTfdNg220/pub

____________________
I was a prisoner enclosed in the void, were everything might end up just as myself.
There I was called the death in the void, but after a long sleep my drill was ready to pierce the void.
I came back... to guide those who are in doubt and to crush any corrupted mind.
"Just who in the hell do you think I am?!".

blackhole89
Posted on 06-14-15 02:15 AM Link | Quote | ID: 160308


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I can assure you the original Japanese text is written in a pretty childish/immature register too... if anything, Woolsey's English translation, while wobbly in places, gave the scenario a more serious veneer.

zhaDe
Posted on 07-24-15 09:38 AM (rev. 2 of 07-24-15 12:22 PM) Link | Quote | ID: 160475


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Do you plan to give the boy magic powers ? As you probably know there is an unused spell-casting animation for the boy still in the game. While messing with the spell casting I found out that the boy uses this animation and cast spells without any problem if you give him spells and some MP so I guess it was removed late in the developement.
Here a video of this
I used my "SoM gameplay improvement hack" in the video because it was easier to trigger the boy to cast but basically if the boy had a spell menu with some spells the game would support it without any problems.

I also recently noticed that on the overworld map there are alot of shores close to places that are visitable, I guess they had planned to have a kind of boat (or a turtle like in seiken densetsu 3) but cut it later.
SoM World Map

- There is a shore north-east of matango close to the mountains, my guess is that at the end of the cave where you meet flammie you would have met a turtle that would carry you on the sea or get a boat or something. So instead of having to back-track to the canon in upperland to get to kakkara desert or the ice country you would obtain and ride the turtle/boat right after the cave. There is an unused item gfx that has a round shape maybe it was what was used on the shore to call the turtle ? like the flute in seiken densetsu 3 ?

- The ice country is surounded by shore but there seems to have some icebergs that would block you from acessing it by boat everywhere, but on the south patch of green land there is a bit less, maybe it was also added later. I guess that is where you would have landed. It seems to be just south of the canon travel. The ice country area that leads to santa's and to the canon has an unused (well at least useless) bottom path, the same goes for the area on the left of this area. It could only be because they reused the same map 3 times tho...:Ice country area. Maybe they reused the same area (with minor changes) three times because they had to change the ice country maps late in the development so they rushed it. I always hated the ice country because of that, I tend to get lost because every area look the same. I don't think any other area reuse the same area like that aside from some in which it makes sense to do so like the desert or the lumina palace which is shaped like a tower.

- The desert could have been landed from anywhere I guess as it all looks like shore anyway.

- On the gold city island there seems to be a little area where there would be some fighting on the way from the shore to the city, maybe thats why there is a weird unused area where you can go on the bottom-left of gold-city, maybe it was where the entrance was. The trees on the left side of the city (on the world map) are a little bit further compared to the right as if there would be a path. I guess tou would have been able to go there as soon as you have the turtle/boat but you would not be able to get the palace key and the items sold there would cost you all your money.

Here is where it slips even more into the speculation territory...

- There is a shore in the botom of the lofty mountains area (south-west on the map), I guess there would have been something there blocking your path until you finish the fire temple. The area in the mountains is very small, only 2 areas, I guess there would have been other areas leading to the crossroad to the village, the shade palace and the sage's place. On the world map there is 2 palaces but the shade palace is in a cave so it should not be visible from the air, I guess the cave was suposed to be part of the way you climb up there and not a part of the shade palace. Its a bit odd how the temple swtich between temple-themed rooms and caves maybe they mixed-up the cave with the temple. I think the enemies are not the same when in the cave rooms.

-Also in the same area : Watts in the village in this area says : "Whew! That's some climb huh !?" and another character in town says something like "I was impressed until you said you FLEW here" maybe she was suposed to say she was impressed you climbed all the way up there but it was changed later ? The ancient temple north of the village is useless too it must have had some use planned. The unused character in a white cloak is also bald, he so might have been the leader of the monks and live in the ancient temple ? On the cutting room floor the page on SoM says that the guy in white cloak's gfx is between fahna and shex so he must have been another guy working for the emperor, but to me he looks like a good guy compared to the other vilains, a kind of monk or priest or something.

- There is a little island west of the moutain area (south-west) where there is a shore. with a little moutain. My guess is that you would go to the temple north of the mountain village using the turtle/boat after completing the ice and fire palaces (The shade palace and the sage's place would not be acessible at this point). The guy in white cloak would tell you that the sage who lives on the top of the mountain will refuse to meat you until you prove you are the true mana knight or something and that to do so you need to go to the small island to the west. On that small island there would be a cave in which you would fight a boss and then meet flammie who would take you back to the temple and the guy in white cloak would tell you that you need to go to southtown to help the rebellion or something... And to go up on the roof of the temple and that flammie will take you there. You would still not be able to control flammie at this point. At the end of the part where the emperor castle is collapsing the guy in white cloak would appear instead of truffle and give you the drums to call flammie.

After that I guess everything would be pretty much the same, you would use flammie to go see the sage but he will tell you to go to many places before you finally meet him, and then you would go to the sunken continent and then pureland and finally the mana fortress.





Stifu
Posted on 07-24-15 11:59 AM Link | Quote | ID: 160476


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Wouldn't it be better or more flexible to split the project in 2, retranslation and restored / bonus stuff? Then you could let people combine both patches, as well as possibly combine just the retranslation with other patches. I don't think it'd be much more work, but I could be wrong.

zhaDe
Posted on 07-24-15 12:38 PM Link | Quote | ID: 160478


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Posted by Stifu
Wouldn't it be better or more flexible to split the project in 2, retranslation and restored / bonus stuff? Then you could let people combine both patches, as well as possibly combine just the retranslation with other patches. I don't think it'd be much more work, but I could be wrong.


I think this could be a good idea and you would be able to start working on restoring stuff even without a translator
Btw, about restoring stuff, I don't think there is enough information available to make it as it was planned so do you plan on adding only stuff that is known to be missing or go into more speculative areas like I did in my previous post ? Personally I would like to have as much new areas as possible even if it was not as it was planned.

Thanatos-Zero
Posted on 07-25-15 10:36 AM Link | Quote | ID: 160487


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The thing is that we want to use the original as the base, so it is more harmonic with the original intentions.
If we start to expand now without it, we might need to change alot of things afterwards. I like to invite all SOM fan developers and fanfic writers to participate into the project, because we wish to make Seiken Densetsu 2 truly to become pinacle of Action JRPGs.

____________________
I was a prisoner enclosed in the void, were everything might end up just as myself.
There I was called the death in the void, but after a long sleep my drill was ready to pierce the void.
I came back... to guide those who are in doubt and to crush any corrupted mind.
"Just who in the hell do you think I am?!".

..RetroHelix
Posted on 07-25-15 01:08 PM Link | Quote | ID: 160488


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Posted by Thanatos-Zero
Posted by Stifu

I wonder if that English retranslation project is still in the works. It would be nice to be able to combine both patches and rediscover the game.


You know we need a translator which is proficient in japanese, so we can finally start on the new story scripts and events, as well as adding potencially new enemies and areas into the game.
RedScorpion the project leader of the retranslation project.


I don't see a reason to not start writing a script for your expansion. Sure you need someone to get the retranslation done but how does that interfere with the goal of expanding the game?
There is literally nothing that stops you from writing up a good story that expands the game. There is not much known about the cut material so feel free to come up with something. Just make sure it fits to the original game.

Thanatos-Zero
Posted on 09-03-15 09:08 PM (rev. 2 of 09-03-15 09:11 PM) Link | Quote | ID: 161017


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Now here I have been starting to create a concept graphic for the Egg of Mana, which will be a boss in the game.


Read the spoiler on your own risk as I provided a background entry for the Egg.
Spoiler:
This is a original concept for the Seiken Densetsu 2 Expansion, the Egg of Mana.

Created by Thanatos using Mana tribe woman to construct this monstrosity. It is a infinite source of Mana, as well serving as a cocoon to birth a god.

However since the Mana tribe became nearly extinct for reasons not offically known, Thanatos used the Blood of Randi, a actual male member of the tribe and the blood of Purim, which has come in contact with the Sword of Mana, to create female hybrid clones out of the two using Purim as the base, which in effect recreates Mana tribe woman necessary for its creation.

Unlike in the original, Thanatos will sucessfully highjack Dyluck's body and not lose it, by the original owner committing suicide. Thanatos in Dyluck's body will enter the Egg of Mana to bring forward his ascension to godhood. In the meantime his Shadow will intercept the Protagonists and transform into the Dark Lich.

Reaching the egg will ultimatively commence the first phase of the final battle.


____________________
I was a prisoner enclosed in the void, were everything might end up just as myself.
There I was called the death in the void, but after a long sleep my drill was ready to pierce the void.
I came back... to guide those who are in doubt and to crush any corrupted mind.
"Just who in the hell do you think I am?!".

Thanatos-Zero
Posted on 09-05-15 02:43 PM Link | Quote | ID: 161023


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Copypasting my process from Romhacking.Net.

Update:



Update2:



Update3:



Update4:


____________________
I was a prisoner enclosed in the void, were everything might end up just as myself.
There I was called the death in the void, but after a long sleep my drill was ready to pierce the void.
I came back... to guide those who are in doubt and to crush any corrupted mind.
"Just who in the hell do you think I am?!".

Thanatos-Zero
Posted on 09-06-15 08:41 PM Link | Quote | ID: 161036


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I dislike to doublepost for a new update.
I rather have someone else posting reply with feedback first, so it all appears less chaotic.



____________________
I was a prisoner enclosed in the void, were everything might end up just as myself.
There I was called the death in the void, but after a long sleep my drill was ready to pierce the void.
I came back... to guide those who are in doubt and to crush any corrupted mind.
"Just who in the hell do you think I am?!".

titcriss
Posted on 09-06-15 09:20 PM Link | Quote | ID: 161037

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The colours and the drawing is quite good. Now that you've added a small face on the top. I am not sure what your goal is with that boss. If there is no eye in the middle that means we could be attacking it whenever we want instead of when the eyelid is open.

Is it suppose to be a stationary boss that can attack with his mouth, arms and magic?

Thanatos-Zero
Posted on 09-07-15 04:03 AM Link | Quote | ID: 161045


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This stationary boss is composed of tree enemies.
The Mouth summons monsters which can and will drop Fairy Walnuts. the Eye won't close itself as often.
The Face is capable of casting magic.
The Eye, utilises energy attacks. Unlike the Walls with the eyes, it won't close as often.

Also Update:


____________________
I was a prisoner enclosed in the void, were everything might end up just as myself.
There I was called the death in the void, but after a long sleep my drill was ready to pierce the void.
I came back... to guide those who are in doubt and to crush any corrupted mind.
"Just who in the hell do you think I am?!".

zhaDe
Posted on 09-08-15 08:30 AM Link | Quote | ID: 161058


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Wow the boss looks pretty nice ! good job !
Will the head be reachable only with ranged weapons ?

About the mouth summoning monsters: It might be hard to make it work because the game has a maximum of 3 enemies at all time, the NPCs use the same ram space as the enemies tho and there can be more than 3 at a time so hopefully the 3 enemy limit is just because the game doesnt spawn another enemy when there is already 3 and adding another one will work. I think I will try to make the game spawn a 4th enemy, im kinda curious about how it will handle it. I managed to make a NPC try to attack the players (it didnt work because he had no attacks but he walked towards the players and steped back when he was close to dodge attacks like if he was an enemy) I guess the limit is because they want the game to run at 60fps but since your boss parts wont each have seperate sprites it might handle it.

Do you know how to insert it in the game ? I know the bosses use some kind of compression for the graphics, I think there is information on it on snes-dev. Then there is the boss sprite construction thingy, moppy managed to show most of the bosses correctly in somedit so there might be information for it somewhere too. The AI scripts are also kind of weird to work with, I dont really understand it to be honest... I know Regrs from romhacking.net forums has messed alot with bosses and their AI so he might be able to help you a bit if you need it.

Im looking worward to beat the crap out of this boss !

Thanatos-Zero
Posted on 09-08-15 10:11 PM (rev. 2 of 09-08-15 10:27 PM) Link | Quote | ID: 161060


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Posted by zhaDe
Wow the boss looks pretty nice ! good job !
Will the head be reachable only with ranged weapons ?

About the mouth summoning monsters: It might be hard to make it work because the game has a maximum of 3 enemies at all time, the NPCs use the same ram space as the enemies tho and there can be more than 3 at a time so hopefully the 3 enemy limit is just because the game doesnt spawn another enemy when there is already 3 and adding another one will work. I think I will try to make the game spawn a 4th enemy, im kinda curious about how it will handle it. I managed to make a NPC try to attack the players (it didnt work because he had no attacks but he walked towards the players and steped back when he was close to dodge attacks like if he was an enemy) I guess the limit is because they want the game to run at 60fps but since your boss parts wont each have seperate sprites it might handle it.

Do you know how to insert it in the game ? I know the bosses use some kind of compression for the graphics, I think there is information on it on snes-dev. Then there is the boss sprite construction thingy, moppy managed to show most of the bosses correctly in somedit so there might be information for it somewhere too. The AI scripts are also kind of weird to work with, I dont really understand it to be honest... I know Regrs from romhacking.net forums has messed alot with bosses and their AI so he might be able to help you a bit if you need it.

Im looking worward to beat the crap out of this boss !


That is going to be RedScorpion's job, but we are not alone. Regrs already sent me a PM
offering help to us. In any case post your reply on RMHN as well, because I don't like to
bring this quote over to RMHN, if you could do the deed yourself.

Regarding the slowdown, there is a solution which presented itself in a video.
It is a SMW video utilising a special chip, which cancels the lag.

In any case...
Update Time!

It is about 70% done me thinks.


____________________
I was a prisoner enclosed in the void, were everything might end up just as myself.
There I was called the death in the void, but after a long sleep my drill was ready to pierce the void.
I came back... to guide those who are in doubt and to crush any corrupted mind.
"Just who in the hell do you think I am?!".

Thanatos-Zero
Posted on 09-10-15 04:30 AM (rev. 2 of 09-10-15 04:31 AM) Link | Quote | ID: 161077


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I am still working on my Egg.
Yet I feel unsure if I should redo the roots or let them be.

In any case, here the eye animated.


____________________
I was a prisoner enclosed in the void, were everything might end up just as myself.
There I was called the death in the void, but after a long sleep my drill was ready to pierce the void.
I came back... to guide those who are in doubt and to crush any corrupted mind.
"Just who in the hell do you think I am?!".

Inccubus
Posted on 09-10-15 10:43 PM Link | Quote | ID: 161080


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The roots look fine to me. But over all it still feels like it doesn't quite match the style of the other boss sprites in the game. Someone mentioned the anti-aliasing in the outline and I think that switching to solid outlines would help, as well as turning up the contrast a little. Light outlines are rarely used on SoM IIRC.

Thanatos-Zero
Posted on 09-10-15 11:06 PM Link | Quote | ID: 161083


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Posted by Inccubus
The roots look fine to me. But over all it still feels like it doesn't quite match the style of the other boss sprites in the game. Someone mentioned the anti-aliasing in the outline and I think that switching to solid outlines would help, as well as turning up the contrast a little. Light outlines are rarely used on SoM IIRC.


Thanks Vanya.
These changes will be later applied after anything on the pixelart is done.


As such, here my update.


____________________
I was a prisoner enclosed in the void, were everything might end up just as myself.
There I was called the death in the void, but after a long sleep my drill was ready to pierce the void.
I came back... to guide those who are in doubt and to crush any corrupted mind.
"Just who in the hell do you think I am?!".

Thanatos-Zero
Posted on 09-13-15 04:51 PM (rev. 2 of 09-13-15 09:42 PM) Link | Quote | ID: 161108


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Time for a update.




Edit:
Update:


____________________
I was a prisoner enclosed in the void, were everything might end up just as myself.
There I was called the death in the void, but after a long sleep my drill was ready to pierce the void.
I came back... to guide those who are in doubt and to crush any corrupted mind.
"Just who in the hell do you think I am?!".

Otrebla2
Posted on 09-15-15 04:26 AM Link | Quote | ID: 161114


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I like the concept a lot and I love the face on the top, but if this monster is going to be used for Mana I belive that the face or at least the bleeding eyes should be removed. They look too cruel for Secret of Mana aesthetics.

Nice job and keep it up!!!

Sage Owl
Posted on 09-17-15 05:24 PM Link | Quote | ID: 161144

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Posted by Otrebla2
I like the concept a lot and I love the face on the top, but if this monster is going to be used for Mana I belive that the face or at least the bleeding eyes should be removed. They look too cruel for Secret of Mana aesthetics.

Nice job and keep it up!!!

That is kinda the point of the retranslation/expansion. SoM's original script was meant to be a darker game, but was reworked to fit in with the somewhat cheerier Seiken Densetsu (which isn't too true if you consider that the game begins with a character dying). All of the darker aspects of the original game were put into Chrono Trigger, hence why that game has the foreboding atmosphere of death on the horizon while SoM never achieves that (not without trying I suppose).

So, hopefully, this SoM will achieve some kind of uneasy atmosphere that contrasts cheery backgrounds with rabbit hybrid animals. I'm all for it.
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