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04-25-24 12:01 PM |
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| Main - ROM Hacking - Zelda3 Parallel Worlds easy version idea | New thread | Thread closed |
| puzzledude |
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 Porcupo Level: 39 Posts: 179/302 EXP: 371134 Next: 33637 Since: 08-16-10 Last post: 2273 days Last view: 2273 days |
After some hex studying, I've found a way to hex-change the data of the Zelda3 rooms. With this method I've successfully remodeled some rooms of the Parallel Worlds hack, making the game easier. That way I can change its radical difficulty to something more acceptable with minumum edits, to perserve the game's initial dungeon style. Main concepts: remove radical backtracking, gain the sword quicker, make dungeons a bit more difficult than Alttp...
I've named this remake: Zelda Parallel Remodel, because I want the original to be perserved. So it's Not like PW 2.0 that SePH was working on. I know lots (and lots) of players that have quit in the guardhouse!... missing out a great game and deleting the file out of fury. What do you think of the easy version of the Parallel Worlds, the Parallel Remodel? |
| Xenesis |
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Level: 46 Posts: 415/416 EXP: 672064 Next: 39710 Since: 02-20-07 Last post: 4384 days Last view: 3092 days |
If you can bring the difficulty down to somewhere near LTTP then it might lose it's reputation as being the most pointlessly hard romhack for amazing effort  |
| Celice |
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 Buzz Blob Level: 39 Posts: 270/285 EXP: 379725 Next: 25046 Since: 04-06-07 From: Oroville, CA Last post: 3685 days Last view: 3647 days |
I definitely think it's a good thing. What I noticed was that the overworld part of the game was very well done, but the dungeons were atrociously bland, gimmicky (abusing glitches), and hard. If someone can radically fix these, this will be an amazing hack.
Though, why are you only using hex? |
| blackhole89 |
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 The Guardian Moloch whose eyes are a thousand blind windows! Level: 124 Posts: 3966/4196 EXP: 21531306 Next: 305295 Since: 02-19-07 From: Ithaca, NY, US Last post: 470 days Last view: 83 days |
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| puzzledude |
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Porcupo Level: 39 Posts: 180/302 EXP: 371134 Next: 33637 Since: 08-16-10 Last post: 2273 days Last view: 2273 days |
Thanks for your oppinion everyone.
Posted by Celice The dungeon data of this game is completely (and I do mean completely) locked up. Hex is the only way. PS Try to open the game in Hyrule Magic, you'll see what I mean. You really have to pull of a little miracle just to see the rooms, while any saving corrupts the game altogether. |
| SePH |
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 Rat Level: 22 Posts: 62/81 EXP: 56422 Next: 1928 Since: 12-01-07 Last post: 3079 days Last view: 3060 days |
You have my benediction! 
One think through. If I do recall the hack was pretty unstable moments before the release. The rom would corrupt many times over if any changes were made. I recall when doing PW 2.0 I had to use a much older rom version to do the dungeons 
So ya, good luck with the project... if someone can manage it I'm thinking it's you! ____________________ http://parallelsequel.wordpress.com/ |
| AnAxemRanger |
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 Snifit Level: 37 Posts: 248/279 EXP: 337802 Next: 451 Since: 12-06-09 Last post: 2862 days Last view: 106 days |
My only request:
Get rid of Impa's level, or change it drastically. No invisible floors and warp mazes. Pretty please? |
| puzzledude |
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Porcupo Level: 39 Posts: 181/302 EXP: 371134 Next: 33637 Since: 08-16-10 Last post: 2273 days Last view: 2273 days |
Posted by SePH Thank you. I was hoping to get some reply from you, since you are the coauthor of PW. Posted by AnAxemRanger Yes, Impa's ways and Nabooru's hole require special new logic to make them easier. I will probably reduce the dead ends and make standard room connections. But some standard warping (non algorithmical) is still necessary in Impa's ways because some rooms are quite far apart. |
| puzzledude |
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Porcupo Level: 39 Posts: 182/302 EXP: 371134 Next: 33637 Since: 08-16-10 Last post: 2273 days Last view: 2273 days |
Yet another Parallel Worlds incident has occured
This is a perfect example of what NOT to do. This kind of criticism is higly unwelcome and can frustrate the authors far more, than the game can ever frustrate the player. Similar thing happened to me. On Goddess of Wisdom 2.0 the armos knights fight was described, and I quote (translated): "This hack developer is a sadistic bastard. This game design is sick. How can one ever finish such a thing." Back then the game had no ending sequence. The comments on that were, that the game has a shity ending. But when I did the immposible, decoded the hardcoded ending sequence, the comments never changed and the Lp-er didnt even bother to fight Ganon one more time, which is 3 minutes of playing. Ironically, the above post came out just while Seph is doing the sequel of Parallel Worlds, which will obviously be lighter; and while I'm making the remodel. So all of the bad criticism was already taken into consideration. Maybe by releasing Parallel Universes and Parallel Remodel we will stop these radical annoyances pointed at us. To all future critics, dont curse and insult! Make a statement and argument it. Also dont expect or even force someone to change, what he's created, just because you dont like it. We could call the remodel a PW 2.0, replacing the 1.0 and 1.1, but now we are keeping the hard version out of spite. |
| Xenesis |
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Level: 46 Posts: 416/416 EXP: 672064 Next: 39710 Since: 02-20-07 Last post: 4384 days Last view: 3092 days |
It IS rage-inducingly hard, although that response is not cricket.
Why not release the remodel as 'parallel worlds' and the 'original' as 'hardtype' or something? |
| puzzledude |
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Porcupo Level: 39 Posts: 183/302 EXP: 371134 Next: 33637 Since: 08-16-10 Last post: 2273 days Last view: 2273 days |
The new remodeled guardhouse is finished. Here's a sneak preview. Now we can really enjoy this level. Hopefully the Parallel Remodel will heal some broken souls of the players, that have suffered in Parallel Worlds.
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| XaserLE |
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Level: 8 Posts: 1/9 EXP: 1784 Next: 403 Since: 05-08-12 Last post: 4231 days Last view: 3316 days |
Oh man, this video makes me feel like i definitley should play it one more time :-).
But i love the difficulty of the original. That's the reason why i enjoyed it this much. I have no idea how often i used the save state, but it was great. But by the way: Is it possible to move a hole room to another withoud any problems? Let's say to swap two rooms? I ask because i tried to use rooms 296-319 and it seems to work, but there is no way to edit this rooms with hyrule magic. But i could use a buffer room for editing and if this room is definitley finished, i move it to one of the rooms from 296-319. |
| Lunaria |
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 Deddorokku Princess of the Night Level: 47 Posts: 322/442 EXP: 735982 Next: 30221 Since: 02-21-07 From: Equestria Last post: 3702 days Last view: 2066 days |
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| puzzledude |
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Porcupo Level: 39 Posts: 185/302 EXP: 371134 Next: 33637 Since: 08-16-10 Last post: 2273 days Last view: 2273 days |
Regarding the walled soldiers. I've put fence around them so that Link can mock them. The problem with this game is that the sprites are really difficult to edit. Of course I can also remove them instead.
Regarding the rooms 296-319. You can not edit them in HM. But you can edit a room and then transfer its data into the room 300 for instance, but you can not bring sprites in (or special torches or items). I've found the way to transfer only what's on bg1,2,3. So I can transfer between 0 and 295 or between games, but sprites and items and other room properties must be added later. |
| Lunaria |
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Deddorokku Princess of the Night Level: 47 Posts: 323/442 EXP: 735982 Next: 30221 Since: 02-21-07 From: Equestria Last post: 3702 days Last view: 2066 days |
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| XaserLE |
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Level: 8 Posts: 2/9 EXP: 1784 Next: 403 Since: 05-08-12 Last post: 4231 days Last view: 3316 days |
Puzzledude: Could you post how exactly you make this? It were nice if i could test it to transfer a room to 296 and above and see if it works. Ok, sprites, items, enemys are a problem but the bg-data is better than nothing, it's a beginning. |
| puzzledude |
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Porcupo Level: 39 Posts: 186/302 EXP: 371134 Next: 33637 Since: 08-16-10 Last post: 2273 days Last view: 2273 days |
Lunaria, you're smart. Yes, maybe I went a bit to fast through the guardhouse remodel, lacking some ideas specially because Link was without his sword and I couldn't edit sprites back then. I did a lot better with dungeons later on. I'll go with the four lines you posted.
To XaserLE, I'll PM you the info. |
| Dante4212 |
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Newcomer Level: 4 Posts: 1/2 EXP: 205 Next: 74 Since: 11-04-09 Last post: 2010 days Last view: 437 days |
Puzzledude, I am a big fan of your work with Zelda. Believe me when I say that people like you & SePH restore a sense of childhood when it comes to your aLttP hacks.
As a fan of Parallel Worlds, might I please share some suggestions regarding your plans for remodeling the Guardhouse. Backing up Lunaria's points, I think that sealing off the Guards kind of strips the difficulty out altogether. But the placing of items/number of guards can be more effective. Think about the first time you played Parallel Worlds. Why did this hack stand out from all the others? New overworld? Possibly. New Sprites? They had a helping hand. To me, the biggest (and pretty much coolest) aspect of this hack was that it mirrored the difficulty of current gen games, but with an old school appeal to it. To me, it's like the start of a book or movie. The creators need to reel in the audience the best they can within the first 10 minutes. If they can't reach them, then they've lost the audience. So you really have to "wow" them. How did Euclid & SePH achieve this? They hid the sword further into the opening. Suddenly, we had to rely on stealth, strategy and intuition instead of brute force barge-in-ask-questions-later. I never got around to actually beating Parallel Worlds, despite making it to the Ice World, but I will admit that I've played through that opening of the Guardhouse so many times, I can almost always get the sword without losing two hearts. I'm not saying "OH NO! LEAVE THINGS ALONE!". Don't get me wrong. A slight advantage to the easy side is very welcome. I had some thoughts, and let me know if they're even possible to code. The video you posted allows the sword to be obtained much easier and sooner. While this does give the player an advantage, I feel it takes too much away from what made it so appealing in the first place. How about leaving the path to the Uncle the exact same, but don't allow Link to obtain the Sword & Shield and code the Uncle's dialogue to say something along the lines of "I've been caught... They've taken my equipment and probably locked it away in the Armory... Take this key.. ugh.. I saw one of the guards drop it. It's up ... to you.. now.." And the key may open up a door after Link has ran into a dead end. And you could place two chests (one for the sword, the other for the shield) into the room with the lone Ball & Chain dude with the telepathic tile and call that room "The Armory". This way, the player still has to rely on stealth, strategy, and intuition, but it completely removes all the painstaking backtracking. I like your idea of using fencing for "taunting" purposes. How about you flip it around, though? Have civilians (like you would find in Kakariko Village) trapped in fences or jail cells with Guards pacing around them. After all, this is a GIANT guardhouse, and the only prisoner is Princess Zelda. Seems pretty well-guarded for just one puny girl who can never save herself. But again, just a suggestion. Keep it in mind! |
| puzzledude |
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Porcupo Level: 39 Posts: 187/302 EXP: 371134 Next: 33637 Since: 08-16-10 Last post: 2273 days Last view: 2273 days |
Yes, these are interesting ideas, however they are mostly not possible to insert. The game namely can't process the sword level 1 and 2 in the chest, ironically sword 3 and 4 are possible to put into the chest. As you might know no sword was inside a chest in alttp.
I was reviewing some forum topics regarding PW and Ive learned that the main issue with the Guardhouse being so difficult is the lack of sword for so long. SePH once wrote that the general public was vehemently against the no-sword idea. Of course stealth and avoiding is new and original and not a problem for me (since Ive finished both PW quests), but I can remmember when I was first in the Guardhouse, I thought that I missed the sword somewhere. The problem with stealth is that an average player can easily fail at it and will surely panic when a guard (that is much faster then in alttp) charges at him. The game will still be fairly difficult, because of the Morning star soldiers. Fighting those can still be fatal even with the sword, so avoiding and throwing objects is still in order in such rooms. The idea was that the uncle is not cought, but rather hurt trying to escape towards the exit, so he's not in a cell. So we will probably go with the early-sword strategy. Regarding some other dungeons. The main goal of this game is to remodel them, not overhaul them. So some dark world dungeons will most likely not be so appealing, but still fairly difficult to beat. For instance Darunia's cavern has a lot of similar squared rooms, which is really not possible to change. Reasons: the game is heavily locked, so radical changes are not possible, free sprites are at 0 and the sprites are locked all together, room header is full, room data is "filled" (275 of 295 rooms are full, which is to much, so the rooms must remain at their current data size). But then again Sheik's hideout and Saria's gardens and Parallel Tower etc can really be quality dungeons. All in all I think with the remodeled dungeons and Seph's overworlds, new gfx and sprites we will still have a good game to play. |
| Euclid |
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Newcomer Level: 3 Posts: 1/1 EXP: 65 Next: 63 Since: 05-30-12 Last post: 4348 days Last view: 4226 days |
I should probably contribute to this thread.
What people don't realise - maybe because it's a bit subtle - is that the solders run at at the same speed as you, whereas the original LTTP the soldiers run at you at half your speed. Over the 5 years i have read people's rants etc on the dungeons, here are some thoughts for the dungeons. Lets start with the guardhouse - yes it is suppose to be semi-hard, but the difficulty can be brought down by doing the following simple edits: - replace the cellar blue soldiers with knights (non chasing ones) - replace the B1 spike room green soldier with knight. - replace the B2 spike room just before uncle green soldier with knight. - remove the B3 cell room soldiers and leave the morning star in the room with 2 green soldiers and a morning star - this room is meant to be tackled after you have your sword, but if the player bring bombs... - B4 room above the stairs - change the greensoldier with knight, leave the blue. - B4 room with big key - remove spikes - B4 room with 2 green soldiers and a knight - change them all to knights. - B4 room with floor tiles - open top door, leave bottom one closed. I'll get to some of the other dungeons another day. Surprisingly though - I have yet to hear a single complaint on Darunia's - dunno if there's any reason to change it. |
| Main - ROM Hacking - Zelda3 Parallel Worlds easy version idea | New thread | Thread closed |
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