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Main - ROM Hacking - Megaman the Wily Wars - Editor news and Game related info New thread | New reply

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Synthetekh
Posted on 03-17-11 08:05 AM (rev. 17 of 03-21-16 04:37 PM) Link | Quote | ID: 140208


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------------------------------------ Original first post ------------------------------------

I'm working on an Editor for Megaman - The Wily Wars as the title suggests.

I've been using Matrixz's notes to get this project going, however I have 1 issue that I could use some assistance on; the Graphics.

Some of the Level Graphics in this game is compressed (all Sprite Gfx is Uncompressed) and I hate dealing with compression formats. Levels that have Animated Gfx seem to be uncompressed (such as Shadow Man's, which is definitely uncompressed).

Secondly there are a Table of Pointers for all of the Levels. Each Level has 8 Pointers. These 8 Pointers point to Data Involving the following (I'm using Shadow Man's Level as an example):

1005E0 : Pointer to Shadowman Map Matrix
1005E4 : Pointer to Shadowman Room/Screen Pointers (Ground / Layer 1)
1005E8 : Pointer to Shadowman TSA (16x16)
1005EC : Pointer to Shadowman TSA Collision Properties
1005F0 : Pointer to Shadowman Start/Continue Coordinates
1005F4 : Pointer to Shadowman Level Graphics (FG & BG, Sprites load their own Gfx)
1005F8 : Unknown (affects Graphics in some way by a little) <-- Edit: Solved (how many Bytes of Gfx to Read)
1005FC : Pointer to Shadowman Background

I need help figuring out what the "Unknown" one is, the 7th one that is. It doesn't seem to be a Pointer at all, and partially affects the Graphics when changed. Although only the 1st value of it seems to have any effect (tested mostly just in Shadow Man's Stage). In some stages it seems to have no effect when changing it.

Help me with these things and I promise a nice Editor somewhat soon!
After I can get this issue involving the Graphics taken care of, development of the GUI will be next (currently it's a pretty plain window with a few things).


Currently I'm calling the Editor "Mega Robot Laboratory." If you don't like it and think you have a better name for it, give me your suggestions. But I like it anyway.
The Editor Currently Loads Pointers + Data for everything from the above list except the Graphics and the "Unknown", whatever that's for, and it also Loads Pointers + Data for Sprite Placement in Levels.
And I have yet to load the Palettes, which should be easy. Other than that I can't think of much that's missing. I would like to add support for Custom Animations and some other odd things, but that's for later.

Thread containing Matrixz's Notes:
http://acmlm.kafuka.org/board/thread.php?id=6344


ps. Yes I'm listed as newcommer here, but I more of a returning member (used to post on Acmlm's board and edit SMW years ago)

mickevincent
Posted on 03-17-11 11:01 AM Link | Quote | ID: 140215


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Iam sorry I can't help you with anything. I just wanted to say that this is very nice. Actualy, it's fucking awesome

Synthetekh
Posted on 03-17-11 07:30 PM (rev. 5 of 03-17-11 07:39 PM) Link | Quote | ID: 140218


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Hell Yeah!


Btw, I would think that the easiest way to find the compression format would be to trace the code as the game loads the decompresses the Graphics, but I don't really know Assembly, just concepts and some basics really.

For now I'm thinking I'll make it read Graphics for Levels that use Uncompressed Graphics, but I would really like it to be able to edit all levels (if you can't see what you're doing because the Gfx can't be read in some Levels, editing those levels wouldn't really work too well now would it ).

The "Unknown" data I talk about in my 1st post probably isn't a big deal, because I should be able to just leave it as is the way each Level already has it. But I really need the Compression format, or at least a way to set which levels use Compressed and Uncompressed Gfx (both would be pretty cool though, and I will need the latter option later on for Custom Animations, as they need the Level to have Uncompressed Gfx).


ps. One thing I love about this game is that it uses 16x16 Tiles in the Level Layout, rather than those horrible 32x32 Structures that the NES games use.

Matrixz
Posted on 03-17-11 07:55 PM Link | Quote | ID: 140222


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Nice!

Im very clueless about compression formats, but if it uses a common compression for Mega Drive games, then it could be one of the ones linked to here:

http://segaretro.org/Category:Data_Formats

It seems the "Nemesis" compression is used for graphics in a lot of games..

Best of luck!

Stifu
Posted on 03-17-11 08:03 PM Link | Quote | ID: 140223


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Posted by Synthetekh
Btw, I would think that the easiest way to find the compression format would be to trace the code as the game loads the decompresses the Graphics, but I don't really know Assembly, just concepts and some basics really.

To me, it sounds easier to compare uncompressed data with the same data compressed. Then modify the compressed data to check how it impacts the uncompressed data, if possible.
That's what I did, although I'm no expert, and I ended up figuring it out.

mickevincent
Posted on 03-17-11 08:03 PM (rev. 3 of 03-17-11 08:07 PM) Link | Quote | ID: 140224


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Posted by Synthetekh


ps. One thing I love about this game is that it uses 16x16 Tiles in the Level Layout, rather than those horrible 32x32 Structures that the NES games use.


Is it much different then how Capcom has made the Mega Man games on the NES? There it is 16x16 tiles and then you build up the tsa with 2x2 tiles and then 2x2 tsa into the structure.

I guess you already know, if not, I recomand you check out Matrixz MegaFLEX(wich you already have probably ) for Mega Man 3-6.

I don't know if it's possible to make a similar program for Wily Wars? It would be nice, very nice. I love the SDB editor in MegaFLEX, you bassicly just build your levels with the tsa blocks then the editor makes the structures for you automaticly. It's rather brilliant.

*EDIT*
Sorry, I missunderstood you first. Or.. I read sloppy, I guess Wily Wars builds up levels completely different then NES Mega Man.


Synthetekh
Posted on 03-17-11 08:39 PM (rev. 3 of 03-18-11 02:22 AM) Link | Quote | ID: 140228


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@Matrixz:
I tried Kosinski, Nemesis, Enigma, and Saxman formats, none of them work.

Thanks for the notes you made btw, I probably wouldn't have bothered if it weren't for them (it's making my job pretty easy).

@Stifu:
I thought about doing it that way, but I think I'll use that as a last resort.

@mickevincent:
Yeah you just place the 16x16/TSA Tiles directly into the Room (and then you Build the Level by setting Rooms in a Map/Matrix). There are no Structures made up of TSA Tiles in a 2x2 Arrangement in Wily Wars (I called it 32x32 just because it's a total of 32x32 Pixels).
Also the Rooms can be placed anywhere in a 2D Grid, aka the Matrix (meaning you can literally build a path of Rooms going wherever you want), and thanks to the Wily Tower game, you can have multiple paths in your Level. And you can have a total of 256 Different Rooms (at least the data indicates such) in a Level, plus you can reuse the same Rooms by placing them in different Locations in the Matrix.

Another cool thing is that Sprites load their own Gfx and Palettes when Megaman comes in range of them (so you need to do no work there, just set them down in the level as you please). Also if I remember right, at the beginning of each Hallway, it clears the Sprite Gfx and Sprite Palettes currently in use so you can set more types of Sprites after you've reached the Gfx and Palette limit (for example if you've already loaded numerous types of Enemies).

They made this game very convienent for editing.

mickevincent
Posted on 03-17-11 08:46 PM Link | Quote | ID: 140229


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After 3-4 years of work with the very limited NES and early Mega Man games, what you are telling me, sounds like a dream. You could just say "there are no limits" The structure in Mega Man 4-5 has always ben the biggest limit for me.
But the tiles are still limited to 16x16 per level?

A question about bossdoors. Maybe you havent got there yet? Just wondering if they would be easy to change?

And a question about the tsa. Do you still choose what kind of structure the block should have? Like "water", "wall", "spike" etc?

Iam so thrilled about this and I have alot more questions, but I guess answers will come in time.
I wish you all of luck to finnish this project!

Synthetekh
Posted on 03-17-11 09:09 PM (rev. 4 of 03-17-11 09:35 PM) Link | Quote | ID: 140230


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Thanks, I hope development goes well. So far so good!

The Collision Property can be easy changed (BG Tile, Solid, Ladder, Spike), the only thing I'm not happy about with that is the Enemy Eggs in Gemini Man's Level is not in the Collision Property List. Gemini Man's Level loads a Special Property onto one of the TSA Tiles for the Egg Block. Hopefully I can figure out where in the ROM that special property is being set.

Unfotunately this game only has 4 Collision Properties which are:
00 : Background / Non-Solid
01 : Solid
02 : Ladder (Ladder Top and Ladder is combined, Tops of a Ladders are auto detected by the Game)
03 : Spikes (go through if blinking)

I don't know about Water yet, I'll have to look into that. It could be a Special Property like the Egg Blocks, but I'm not sure.

The Boss door itself is a Sprite, and there is a Room property that you set in the Level's Maxtrix. So Yes, Boss doors can be easily edited!


"But the tiles are still limited to 16x16 per level?"
Not sure what you mean by that, but I can just say that Rooms are made up of 15 Rows of by 16 Collumns of 16x16 Tiles.
So a Room is 15 16x16 Blocks High, and 16 16x16 Blocks Wide, in which you can simply place 16x16 Tiles anywhere in that space.

mickevincent
Posted on 03-17-11 09:34 PM Link | Quote | ID: 140231


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Posted by Synthetekh
Thanks, I hope development goes well. So far so good!

the only thing I'm not happy about with that is the Enemy Eggs in Gemini Man's Level is not in the Collision Property List. Gemini Man's Level loads a special Property onto one of the TSA Tiles for the Egg Block. Hopefully I can figure out where in the ROM that special property is being set.

The Boss door itself is a Sprite, and there is a Room property that you set in the Level's Maxtrix. So Yes, Boss doors can be easily edited!


"But the tiles are still limited to 16x16 per level?"
Not sure what you mean by that, but I can just say that Rooms are made up of 15 Rows of by 16 Collumns of 16x16 Tiles.
So a Room is 15 16x16 Blocks High, and 16 16x16 Blocks Wide, in which you can simply place 16x16 Tiles anywhere in that space.


About the eggs, I think the eggs are the same in NES Mega Man 3 You can't just change it in the TSA. It's the same with the shootable blocks in Dust Man's level in Mega Man 4.

What I ment was the tile space for a level. In Mega Man 3-6 you can have 16x16 squares of tiles and these squares you build 2x2 tsa blocks with. Each square consists of 8x8 pixels. So.. you can have 128x128 pixels of graphics in Mega Man 3,4,5 and 6.
I guess it should be more space for graphics since the Genesis is a 16bit system.
Btw, importing graphics with for example tile layer pro wont work since the game compres graphics, right?




Synthetekh
Posted on 03-17-11 09:49 PM (rev. 4 of 03-18-11 06:37 AM) Link | Quote | ID: 140232


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Some Levels have Uncompressed Graphics, like Shadow Man's, Gemini Man's, Magnet Man's etc., in which case you can import them into Tile Layer Pro. Levels that use Compressed Gfx cannot simply be imported into TLP. However, you can take screenshots of the "Genesis VDP" (a Debug Option in the Gens Emulator, listed in the "CPU" Menu Item), and then set that image up with a Palette in Photoshop (Gens gives you a Properly Arranged Palette as well).

The Genesis allows for a lot of Gfx Space, so yeah that's one major plus. Needle Man's Stage has a lot of FG/BG Gfx and the VRAM still has more space, even after Sprites have loaded their own Gfx. It's the Palettes that are a bit limited, at least the ones they let you access. You only have 4 Lines. Sonic 2 will use more than 4 Palettes if Water is in use (the Water palettes will load after the main 4), but that's a special case of Palette use from what I could tell, and Megaman's Palette takes up the 1st Line/Row. So you're left with 3 Rows which have to be shared with Sprite Palettes (because Sprites load their Palettes into the 1st 8 Color slots in each of these Rows).

mickevincent
Posted on 03-18-11 06:06 AM (rev. 2 of 03-18-11 06:06 AM) Link | Quote | ID: 140241


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Posted by Synthetekh
Some Levels have Uncompressed Graphics, like Shadow Man's, Gemini Man's, Magnet Man's etc..


Now Iam gonna beg you to make it possible to transfer graphics between levels with the editor It's just to throw in graphics in Shadow Man's level with tile layer then send it away to Heat Man or wathever

Synthetekh
Posted on 03-18-11 06:35 AM (rev. 6 of 03-18-11 07:27 AM) Link | Quote | ID: 140242


Ninji
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Oh sure that'll be easy. I'm also going to make it so you can copy and Paste Gfx into the Editor (if I can figure out how to use the Windows Clipboard, haven't looked up anything on that yet, shouldn't be hard) and it will reorder the Pixel's Colors Correctly to match the order of the Colors in whatever Palette is currently in use in the Editor (if the right Colors exist at the time of Pasting), or it'll allow you to have it create it's own Palette, or have it try to condense the colors as best as it can if the Image has too many colors in it.
I'm tired of Editors that make you save the Image with a Palette in whatever program, open it in TLP (or other Tile Editing Program), then save it as a bin file or whatever, then use the Editor to load the Tile Data, and then finally create a Palette Manually. So I'm going to put some cool features in this that will make Editing much easier.

Btw a correction on how Sprites load their Palettes:
~Ok so there are 4 Rows of Palettes~
The 1st Row is Reserved for Megaman's Colors.
The 1st Sprite to appear on screen will load 8 Colors in the 2nd Row,
the 2nd Sprite to appear on screen will load 8 Colors in the 3rd Row,
and the 3rd Sprite to appear on screen will load 8 Colors in the 4th Row.
And if Rows 2, 3, and 4 have Sprite Palettes aready loaded into all 3 of them, the next Sprite to load its Palette moves Colors from the 1st Row to the 2nd, the 2nd to the 3rd, and finally the 3rd Row's Colors, to the 4th Row. The it Writes its own Colors to the 1st row.
Then if you enter a new Hallway (go through a Screen Transition), it starts the process over, which means that any Sprite's Colors still in the VRAM will simply get overwrited instead of moved down to the next Row.
It completely Manages itself.
So you then have the last 8 Colors in Rows 2, 3, and 4 for your FG and BG Tiles. You can use the 1st 8 Colors in a Row for FG and BG, but you better be damm sure you don't load too many Sprites or it will overwrite those Colors. I believe that if you only load 2 Sprites in a Hallway, you could use the whole 4th Row of your Palette for the FG / BG. In someway the Game is capable of loading FG / BG
Palettes part way through the level, but I'll have to look into what's doing that (it happens in Woodman's Level when you reach the area with Blue Sky).

That means that you can have 3 Different Types of Sprites on the Screen at the same time. Be careful though, because some enemies will follow you into different screens.

ps. Sorry my Posts are so lengthy, I just can't help it D: ! There's just so much info I can write :O lol

kuja killer
Posted on 03-18-11 01:53 PM Link | Quote | ID: 140247


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really wish i could help out too, considering i know every little single possible nook and cranny and every possible thing that exists in the NES megaman 3 rom for the NES ...being an expert at NES 6502 asm...but know purely zero about genesis.

but i really hope you'll be able to make this editor for wily wars though.

mickevincent
Posted on 03-18-11 02:15 PM Link | Quote | ID: 140248


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It sounds better and better, Iam looking forward for updates and releases Nice work!

Synthetekh
Posted on 03-18-11 08:05 PM (rev. 7 of 03-19-11 08:07 PM) Link | Quote | ID: 140252


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I'm really not so good with Compressed Data. I know too little about how compression formats are designed. I'll keep trying though.... but if Graphics Editing is going to be possible in Levels that use Compressed Graphics, I'm almost definately going to need help with this.
For now I'm going to make a workaround by grabbing the 8x8 Tile Data out of Save States and have the Editor read from seperate files for those Levels, which would allow you to Edit everything except the Graphics until the Compression Format is cracked.

Update: Ok so a little less than half of the Levels use Uncompressed Graphics.
Here's the list (Every Level that's Bolded uses Uncompressed Graphics):


~ Megaman 1 ~

00: Cut Man
01: Guts Man
02: Ice Man
03: Bomb Man
04: Fire Man
05: Electric Man
06: Wily Castle 1 (MM1)
07: Wily Castle 2 (MM1)
08: Wily Castle 3 (MM1)
09: Wily Castle 4 (MM1)



~ Megaman 2 ~

10: Bubble Man
11: Air Man
12: Quick Man
13: Heat Man
14: Wood Man
15: Metal Man
16: Flash Man
17: Crash Man
18: Wily Castle 1 (MM2)

19: Wily Castle 2 (MM2)
20: Wily Castle 3 (MM2)
21: Wily Castle 4 (MM2)
22: Wily Castle 5 (MM2)

23: Wily Castle 6 (MM2)


~ Megaman 3 ~

24: Spark Man
25: Snake Man
26: Needle Man

27: Hard Man
28: Top Man
29: Gemini Man
30: Magnet Man
31: Shadow Man

32: Doc Spark Man
33: Doc Needle Man

34: Doc Gemini Man
35: Doc Shadow Man
36: Breakman

37: Wily Castle 1 (MM3)
38: Wily Castle 2 (MM3)
39: Wily Castle 3 (MM3)
40: Wily Castle 4 (MM3)

41: Wily Castle 5 (MM3)
42: Wily Castle 6 (MM3)


~ Wily Tower ~

43: Buster Rod G
44: Mega Water S
45: Hyper Storm H
46: Wily Castle 1 (WT)
47: Wily Castle 2 (WT)
48: Wily Castle 3 (WT)
49: Wily Castle 4 (WT)




Btw, I would like to think of this as more of a Community Project than just my Project, after all I'm making it for all of you as well, so if you think you have something to contribute and would like to, please feel free to share, even if it's just ideas. I have a lot of good ideas myself for this Program, but I'm sure other people do too.

Matrixz
Posted on 03-20-11 05:47 PM Link | Quote | ID: 140271


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Another place you could try ask about the compression is the romhacking.net forums @
http://www.romhacking.net/forum/

Synthetekh
Posted on 03-20-11 11:29 PM (rev. 11 of 03-21-11 01:47 AM) Link | Quote | ID: 140277


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Oh Hell Yeah, I figured out what the "Unknown" Value is


1005E0 : Pointer to Shadowman Map Matrix
1005E4 : Pointer to Shadowman Room/Screen Pointers (Ground / Layer 1)
1005E8 : Pointer to Shadowman TSA (16x16)
1005EC : Pointer to Shadowman TSA Collision Properties
1005F0 : Pointer to Shadowman Start/Continue Coordinates
1005F4 : Pointer to Shadowman Level Graphics (FG & BG, Sprites load their own Gfx)
1005F8 : Unknown (affects Graphics in some way by a little)

1005FC : Pointer to Shadowman Background



It tells how many Bytes of Graphic data to load. I'm so happy, and at the same time I feel like I'm having a big DUHHH!! moment. It was only right next to the Pointer for the Graphics. lol


Info Update (for those interested ):

Posted by mickevincent
What I ment was the tile space for a level. In Mega Man 3-6 you can have 16x16 squares of tiles and these squares you build 2x2 tsa blocks with. Each square consists of 8x8 pixels. So.. you can have 128x128 pixels of graphics in Mega Man 3,4,5 and 6.
I guess it should be more space for graphics since the Genesis is a 16bit system.
Btw, importing graphics with for example tile layer pro wont work since the game compres graphics, right?

I actually have an exact answer for you now.
You can load 0xF400 Bytes of Graphical Data for a Level, which is 1952 8x8 Tiles. However, Sprites start Loading their Gfx Data into Address 0x6000 in VRAM, so in order to not have any of your Level Gfx Overwritten, you can safely have 0x5400 Bytes for Gfx, which is 672 8x8 Tiles (an Area of 16x42 Tiles, aka 16 Collumns & 42 Rows of Tiles). That's a ton of Gfx Space.

There is one trick that I can think of to Maximize your Gfx Space (Loading 0xF400 Bytes)... doubt you'd need to use that much though. There is a lot of unused Gfx Space after Megaman's Gfx, Item Gfx, etc. (0xBE00 - 0xFFFF). However the Level Data overwrites Item Gfx, Health Bar Gfx, and such, so to get around that you could Load the same Gfx over Megaman's Gfx (Plasma, Health Bar, etc., but Megaman Loads Gfx constantly for each animation, so not worry with that small part) Item Gfx, and such, as what's normally there, while not using any of the Graphics Space from VRAM Address 0x6000 (Sprites' Space) to 0xBDFF. That would allow you to use the Space between 0xBE00 - 0xFFFF without messing anything up.
Edit: Something I just found is that some of the Space between VRAM Address 0xBE00 - 0xFFFF comes out Garbled, but you can still use some chunks from in that space it seems. But whatever, 672 Tiles is Plenty; You really don't need more than that anyway.

I'm sorry if it's a bit hard to understand, but in the Editor I'll put some guides in to show you what VRAM Space is safe to write over and what's not.

mickevincent
Posted on 03-21-11 06:14 AM Link | Quote | ID: 140286


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Ok that sounds nice. It's realy cool that someone is actualy making a Wily Wars editor now.
How long do you think it's gonna take before it get's usable? Weeks? Months? Either way take the time you need

Synthetekh
Posted on 03-21-11 07:39 PM (rev. 12 of 03-25-11 07:40 PM) Link | Quote | ID: 140289


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lol I completely understand the Excitement. I would say a couple weeks to a month probably (Edited to be more accurate, 2 weeks is leaving myself a little short).

The Editor now loads all of the Data it needs to Edit the following:

Matrix (Room Arrangement in Level)
Start & Continue Points
Level Layout
Background Layout
16x16 Tile Data (TSA)
16x16 Tile Collision (Solid, BG, Ladder, Spike)
Sprite Layout
Boss Doors (involves Sprites and Matrix to make function)
Palettes
Uncompressed Graphics (will be Editable only for Uncompressed Gfx in 1st Release)
# of Bytes Level allocates for Graphics (will be Editable only for Uncompressed Gfx in 1st Release)
Music Track Selection (Levels and Boss Battles - Each Individual Boss can have Different Music)


What's Left to be Loaded:
Sprite Palettes
Sprite Graphics
Sprite Mappings (will be done later on)
Enemy HP
Weapon Damage to Enemies
Damage Enemies do to Megaman


Then I'll create the User Interface (so you can Edit Stuff!), and then I need to make it Save back to the ROM.

Then it'll be ready for a 1st Release.

It's funny, I don't think I've ever seen someone talk about Development of an Editor much, they usually just stay quite until the next Release. I'm a lot more open about this kind of stuff; plus I need to take breaks once in a while or I'll get swalloed up in my own code and my Brain will turn to mush D: . Sometimes it's more enjoyable to talk about it than Program it lol =D.
Btw, this Editor is being coded in C#, which pretty much means Windows only; although there's something called "Mono" which seems to allow C# code to run on Linux and Mac OS X as well: http://www.mono-project.com/Main_Page

For as much as Mega RL (Robot Laboratory) will Edit in its 1st Release, there's still a lot more to be implemented (which I would say is a good thing, but more work for me as well).

Here's some things I've found Pointer Tables for, which I hope to implement later on. Includes Screen Gfx, Tile Layout, and possibly more?:

0x100A00 : Pointers for Menus, Title Screens, Level Select (including when you see the Boss you selected as a character size 2D Sprite)
0x100C70 : Pointers for Save Screen, Game Selection Screen, Intro Screen of Wily Tower, and more?
0x101000 : Pointers for Megaman Text in Game Selection Screen (Megaman, Megaman 2, Megaman 3, Wily Tower)
0x101100 : More Pointers for Megaman Text in Game Selection Screen (Megaman, Megaman 2, Megaman 3, Wily Tower)

Because of how simple Wily Wars is to work with (they made this Game Flexible in many ways), I have a feeling this Editor will be capable of a very wide range of things.
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Main - ROM Hacking - Megaman the Wily Wars - Editor news and Game related info New thread | New reply

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