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Main - Display Case - How do you feel about China's web block? New thread | Thread closed

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How do you feel about China's web block?
I'm against it
I'm neutral
I'm for it
Multiple voting is not allowed. Changing your vote is allowed. 12 users have voted so far.

ParaLax
Posted on 02-20-11 09:02 PM Link | Quote | ID: 139678


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Personally, I dislike it. The communist society is preventing people from knowledge, therefore spreading ignorance. They are using ignorance to keep the people under control, something that I feel is very wrong indeed. It's as bad as book burning.
Keeping the people away from knowledge is something I feel fairly strongly against.

(Note: If any of you live in something like this, I am not criticizing your way of life, just expressing my views )

What is your opinion on the matter?

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Kawa
Posted on 02-20-11 09:14 PM Link | Quote | ID: 139682


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I basically agree with your opening statements. I also believe, personally, that it is physically impossible to block the flow of information. It has been so before the Internet even existed, and has only become harder.

The Internet will route around any damage.

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NightKev
Posted on 02-21-11 02:12 PM Link | Quote | ID: 139721


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"The communist society" NO
Not only is China now a capitalist society (iirc), even if it wasn't that has nothing to do with the government blocking the internet.

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Ailure
Posted on 02-21-11 03:10 PM Link | Quote | ID: 139722

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I find China to be more capitalistic than some western countries (even US), which is funny in a way. In the bad way too.

Censorship is rather widespread, the middle-east chaos and possible following revolutions are censored from the Chinese residents, probably to prevent any citizens from getting "inspired".

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blackhole89
Posted on 02-21-11 05:15 PM Link | Quote | ID: 139724


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Okay, let's make this debate slightly more interesting.

How do you feel about, say, the EU's plans to block access to child pornography?

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Kawa
Posted on 02-21-11 05:25 PM Link | Quote | ID: 139727


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Same way, really. Those who really want their child porn will get their child porn.

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blackhole89
Posted on 02-21-11 05:27 PM Link | Quote | ID: 139730


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Well, let's assume there was a way of blocking it in a sufficiently efficient way that 95-99% of the potential "consumers" would wind up deprived of a means of obtaining it.

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Kawa
Posted on 02-21-11 07:02 PM Link | Quote | ID: 139733


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"Love will find a way", even if it's an illegal and very squicky kind of love.

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KP9000
Posted on 02-21-11 07:07 PM Link | Quote | ID: 139735


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I voted neutral because I'm far too ignorant to care, and the little information I'd likely learn from something like this is in some corner of the internet in some message board thread like this one.

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ParaLax
Posted on 02-21-11 07:29 PM Link | Quote | ID: 139736


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If there wasn't a sufficient way of effectively blocking it, then it would just be like the prohibition in 20s in America, even those who wouldn't drink much would start drinking regularly in speakeasies, the same could happen with this, because the ones that look at it once in a while will start looking at it more regularly and start a black market of this It's quite feasible that this would happen really.

Lets assume that there was such a way, would would be a miracle really, then I would be for it. But to tell the truth, there is no such way, which means that there will always be access to child porn, whether or not he EU tries to stop it.

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blackhole89
Posted on 02-21-11 07:44 PM Link | Quote | ID: 139737


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So would you also be for it if there was a way for China perfectly block everything it blocks at the moment?

If not, why not?

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ParaLax
Posted on 02-21-11 10:23 PM Link | Quote | ID: 139740


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No I would not. You are comparing two unrelated things, in a wrong way.

Child Porn is inherently considered wrong, whereas knowledge is considered a necessity for the wellbeing of a person. Child Porn is used to derive sexual pleasure, whereas knowledge in general in order to better oneself is fine. In China, they are being blocked from critical information that would tell them that they are in one of the worst governments. Blocking child porn isn't meant to keep people ignorant, it is not blocking information, but explicit pictures.

It would be like you saying that if there was a way to perfectly make a goal in soccer is good, so then I respond with that if there was a perfect way for a person to commit a murder you would agree. Keeping people ignorant is different from letting adults watch explicit images for their sexual pleasure

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blackhole89
Posted on 02-21-11 11:04 PM (rev. 2 of 02-21-11 11:05 PM) Link | Quote | ID: 139750


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Posted by ParaLax
Child Porn is inherently considered wrong

Inherently[citation needed]? It "is considered"[who?]?

It's just bits and bytes. There exist prime numbers that, given the right algorithm, decode to child porn.


Child Porn is used to derive sexual pleasure, whereas knowledge in general in order to better oneself is fine.
I'm sure there are people out there who wank to the newest in blood and gore on daily news. But that's entirely beyond the point; of what concern is it to you what people do with themselves?


It would be like you saying that if there was a way to perfectly make a goal in soccer is good, so then I respond with that if there was a perfect way for a person to commit a murder you would agree. Keeping people ignorant is different from letting adults watch explicit images for their sexual pleasure
No, your simile is off. Murdering a person causes direct, measurable harm to them against their will; such is not the case as far as decoding sequences of bits as images and responding to the result in whatever way is concerned.

You might argue that considering child pornography "inherently wrong" is supported by there being a wide consensus in society that it is (which would only not be shared by a couple of "defective" extremists and the child pornography consumers themselves), but in that case, it might be worth pointing out that harmony/stability/well-defined authority is a quite firmly rooted value in Chinese culture (for a somewhat accessible, pop-cultural take on it, watch Hero) and indeed, one could argue that a similarly wide consensus broken only by those whose actions are banned themselves and a few stray sympathisers exists in China that any attempts to stir up secession, civil unrest or disunity are inherently wrong. This is not just a matter of different cultural spheres, either; a century or two ago, your own countrymen would have unabashedly told you with the same feeling of righteousness that mixed marriage or universal suffrage is inherently wrong.

Either way, it seems like my assumption that I could trip this otherwise very one-sided debate up with throwing that in was more or less correct.

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Alkis
Posted on 02-23-11 02:50 AM Link | Quote | ID: 139781

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I am in favor of China's internet block. The Chinese people are far too stupid as a whole to make responsible use of information. Their government knows better than to let 1.2 billion ignorant people just do and know whatever they want. Harmony is a hundred times more important to China's well-being than any sort of freedom. If they let them do whatever they want and know whatever they want, the country will fall into chaos and there would be widespread bloodshed (that I don't care about) that would eventually endanger US interests (that I do care about).


God Bless America

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ParaLax
Posted on 02-24-11 02:17 AM Link | Quote | ID: 139815


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blackhole89-
Yes, I agree that I shouldn't care about what the EU does. But I disagree about China, if the people knew the situation that they were in and not brainwashed, then they would change for the better. It is not inherently wrong for them to change. It might be rooted in their culture, but progression should be what is strived for. Getting more knowledge drives progression, but viewing child porn does not drive progression.

Posted by Alkis
I am in favor of China's internet block. The Chinese people are far too stupid as a whole to make responsible use of information. Their government knows better than to let 1.2 billion ignorant people just do and know whatever they want. Harmony is a hundred times more important to China's well-being than any sort of freedom. If they let them do whatever they want and know whatever they want, the country will fall into chaos and there would be widespread bloodshed (that I don't care about) that would eventually endanger US interests (that I do care about).


God Bless America


They are ignorant, BUT THAT'S BECAUSE OF THE BLOCKAGE OF INFORMATION.

* Ignore my message until I till you to stop, in case it is considered ranting *
Actually I agree with you on one thing, I'd just like to change it a bit... "The American people are far too stupid as a whole to make responsible use of information". Yes America is really stupid. The people here are such idiots that one student drops out every nine seconds for just highschool, yeah you heard me right... every nine seconds, the idiots. My source is aypf.org the American Youth Policy Forum, a reliable source. There are all these idiots that don't know anything, and think they know enough to vote, who cares about the Chinese? We should have their government, stopping people from dropping out unless they want to be shot (That's a policy I'd be for), and any grade below a 95, whether it be a homework, should earn a death penalty. Yes, many people would die, but then our country wouldn't be full of uneducated people that think only about beer, sex, and drugs. Yes, I admit that there is a few smart people (most of them immigrants)
though, according to an IQ poll I took at my very own highschool a few years ago Truthfully, the worst americans are the racist ones that don't know anything, besides that there is this thing called a country and it is somehow better than all others. The Chinese people value education, because it is a privilege, not a way to waste life like here.
* Stop ignoring my post now *


I won't argue with you because I think that it was just trolling with lack of information that you gave in your post. Alkis, you are a troll, and I could barely hold it in to not go any further after that comment you made. I can get really angry when users act so naive like that. I'm going to ignore you from now on, but you really deserve a ban after effing up the debate forum with posts like that

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blackhole89
Posted on 02-24-11 02:25 AM Link | Quote | ID: 139816


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Posted by ParaLax
blackhole89-
Yes, I agree that I shouldn't care about what the EU does. But I disagree about China, if the people knew the situation that they were in and not brainwashed, then they would change for the better. It is not inherently wrong for them to change. It might be rooted in their culture, but progression should be what is strived for. Getting more knowledge drives progression, but viewing child porn does not drive progression.

Oh, but on the scientific progress front, China seems to be doing perfectly fine. Fine enough that I would expect them to overtake the USA, Europe and whatever else you consider the "western world" within the next 50 years or so.

Furthermore, it would be good if you could respond to more than a tiny fraction of my point, or elaborate on what exactly your notion of inherent wrongness derives from and what makes that notion more inherently right than the Chinese notion.

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Alkis
Posted on 02-25-11 03:57 AM Link | Quote | ID: 139833

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I find it unfair that I get called a troll simply because I hold conservative views. I bet that if I came here with outrageous communist nonsense, nobody would even care.

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Xeruss
Posted on 02-25-11 05:35 AM Link | Quote | ID: 139837


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Lax: Chinese Grade Inflation; Flynn Effect
I think somewhere between your almost patriotic-hatred and Alkis' chauvinism lies the truth.
As far as the web block, I don't really support it, as I believe China has a lot more to offer the internet than it can currently give. For all we know, they could be the next Japan.

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Alkis
Posted on 03-06-11 08:14 AM Link | Quote | ID: 140012

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I am not trolling. Why are people so particularly hostile to me?

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Kawa
Posted on 03-06-11 11:18 AM Link | Quote | ID: 140014


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Posted by Alkis
I find it unfair that I get called a troll simply because I hold conservative views. I bet that if I came here with outrageous communist nonsense, nobody would even care.
You're posting outrageous things to begin with. That's your first mistake. You're claiming outrageous commie things would be somehow okay, possibly because of blackhole89. That's your second mistake, considering bh's not the only one here to judge you.

We percieve your outrageous things as trolling because we can only hope you're not actually being serious about it. It's that outrageous.



Now read that again in a hammy voice, emphasis on the most often-used word.

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