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04-25-24 07:03 AM |
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| Main - ROM Hacking Related Releases - Megaman3 ATW Hack (1. demo) | New thread | New reply |
| Praetarius |
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Level: 12 Posts: 4/23 EXP: 7825 Next: 96 Since: 07-14-10 Last post: 4645 days Last view: 4574 days |
This is my first hacking project ever; a hack of Megaman 3, called Against the World.
It began with the silly idea of making a spike wall man, that should still be winnable - how that worked out, see below screenshot; initially I didn't want to make a "full" hack, just this one thing, but I had some other ideas I wanted to test, so here I am now.  
if interested in additional screenshots: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=0RB95TKK So far done I have changed most level layouts, some palettes and boss weaknesses; a few bosses got their behaviour changed - some like ShadowMan only got small changes, while I personally don't recognize DocMetalMan anymore. On the other end there were some weapon changes, mostly in energy consumption, but as for Hard Knuckle ... see for yourself. Oh, infinite energy for Marine is in fact intentional! I have done a few minor sprite changes and altered some texts, but both not finished. Obviously the hack will be harder than the normal game, so if you had problems in the original game this hack will probably not be for you! You have been warned. I guess the following trick is not commonly known, so I better add this information: 
You can slide over Rush, if he is 1 tile lower (as seen above). Any criticism, etc is welcome. IPS: http://acmlm.kafuka.org/uploader/get.php?id=3353 |
| Thanatos-Zero |
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 Nipper Plant Level: 45 Posts: 156/423 EXP: 652777 Next: 7387 Since: 11-25-08 From: Germany - Rheinlandpfalz - Wittlich - Zur Phillippsburg 25 Last post: 1090 days Last view: 1052 days |
The pictures are appealing to me.^^
I will try it out as soon as possible. ____________________ I was a prisoner enclosed in the void, were everything might end up just as myself. There I was called the death in the void, but after a long sleep my drill was ready to pierce the void. I came back... to guide those who are in doubt and to crush any corrupted mind. "Just who in the hell do you think I am?!". |
| Praetarius |
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Level: 12 Posts: 5/23 EXP: 7825 Next: 96 Since: 07-14-10 Last post: 4645 days Last view: 4574 days |
I had to re-upload the IPS because of a mistake Wily 1&2 stages, sorry.
Before uploading the first time i made a test run of the game, had that fixed and... forgot to save 
Btw, how can I delete the old one? I just get "File deletion is temporarily disabled." ... |
| Kawa |
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 CHIKKN NI A BAAZZKIT!!! 80's Cheerilee is best pony Level: 138 Posts: 3913/5344 EXP: 30942007 Next: 720974 Since: 02-20-07 From: The Netherlands Last post: 4497 days Last view: 2632 days |
Posted by PraetariusObviously, not. You could ask someone like Blackhole89 to delete it for you, though. ____________________ Wife make lunch - Shampoo Opera - give it a spin Spare some of your free time? <GreyMaria> I walked around the Lake so many goddamn times that my sex drive was brutally murdered Kawa rocks  — byuu |
| Thanatos-Zero |
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Nipper Plant Level: 45 Posts: 158/423 EXP: 652777 Next: 7387 Since: 11-25-08 From: Germany - Rheinlandpfalz - Wittlich - Zur Phillippsburg 25 Last post: 1090 days Last view: 1052 days |
Yours is too difficult or better said too frustating for my tastes. I dislike that you shortened Rock's Recovery Time. Although it makes the game more challenging, the upgraded Bosses are a hell with it. I couldn't even do a proper Rockbuster only run, so hard are they.
Topman is the createst offence. You can only attack him for a short time and after the Topspins goes after you, he starts to spin into you. Fact is that you can't proper evade both. Shadowman and the others are all but to difficult to be dealt with the shortened Recovery Time. Also sometimes the leveldesign is too unfair on some certain places. I will now download the new patch. Hopefully you adjust these flaws. If you are a gamer as well, you shouldn't only make it for you challenging, but also for the others in a degree, that frustation doesn't occur that often. ____________________ I was a prisoner enclosed in the void, were everything might end up just as myself. There I was called the death in the void, but after a long sleep my drill was ready to pierce the void. I came back... to guide those who are in doubt and to crush any corrupted mind. "Just who in the hell do you think I am?!". |
| Praetarius |
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Level: 12 Posts: 6/23 EXP: 7825 Next: 96 Since: 07-14-10 Last post: 4645 days Last view: 4574 days |
I tried all 8 initial bosses with normal buster, and the only one couldn't beat that way was shadow man (at least not with 2 e-tanks...); top man was actually quite manageable (doesn't mean easy) to get a no-hit-run on; one thing i tried to make sure was, that all attacks are still avoidable; if that wasn't possible to be reasonable their damage output is at least low-ish. And don't be too stingy with e-tanks, there's 1 per stage, and i had like 7 left last time 
for the record: of the first 8 shadow man is probably the one hardest to avoid, but is the slowest to kill you (i wanted to get a game over during the re-fights, so i wanted to die "fastest", shadow didn't manage that - contrary to what i thought), if you don't try to dodge that is; hard and top man are among the fastest. but then i again, i made those changes, so i would probably know best how to avoid most of their attacks... note: if you can't dodge top man at all, stand right in front of him, that way you get hit from the small tops first (2 dmg only), and he passes through you while still invincible what worked for me: stand far away from him, make a jump over the tops, then imidiatly jump again when you land right over him, turn around, shoot and slide away - repeat btw, it'd be quite nice to know which places you think are unfair; i had some personal "favorites" which later got turned down or replaced, so i'd like to know which are left i'm still working on it, so it definitly needs still work - and some fixes/changes |
| Thanatos-Zero |
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Nipper Plant Level: 45 Posts: 159/423 EXP: 652777 Next: 7387 Since: 11-25-08 From: Germany - Rheinlandpfalz - Wittlich - Zur Phillippsburg 25 Last post: 1090 days Last view: 1052 days |
You should still make it a bit more easier for other players. Play it without save states and you should realize, that all those spikes and these fake floors are nothing but fake difficulty.
The Wily Machine Battle was so unfair, because the hard knuckle missed almost any time. It disappeared offscreen, when you are not on the left side and when you get a hit, your attack gets cancelled for no apparent reason. A game is all about to be a entertaining medium to the player. If you make it too frustating, it won't entertain anyone at all. The first eight level should be easier and the following level should become gradually more difficult, but not so difficult that you would toss the controller on the next wall after three and more game overs. All what I can recommend you is to redo the hack. Now I want to hear what the other gamers say. ____________________ I was a prisoner enclosed in the void, were everything might end up just as myself. There I was called the death in the void, but after a long sleep my drill was ready to pierce the void. I came back... to guide those who are in doubt and to crush any corrupted mind. "Just who in the hell do you think I am?!". |
| Praetarius |
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Level: 12 Posts: 7/23 EXP: 7825 Next: 96 Since: 07-14-10 Last post: 4645 days Last view: 4574 days |
fake floors... those in wily 6? there were (small) hints at the screen(s); and those in doc gemini were visibly recognizable; did i forget any other?
Wily Machine - sure, is on my to-do list fake difficulty? from how i understand that site, this might not be the trope you were looking for... attack getting cancelled on hit was already in the original game and thanks as well as congratulations for playing it through to the end, nevertheless although... is all you have to comment on the difficulty? that point came across like 2 days ago; i guess i should make 2 versions at the end: 1. hard: like this, maybe a bit worse: 2. easier: about 3-4x invincibility, a few additional platforms, spikes over some bottomless pits so you can use jet, maybe +15% jet energy but only once i'm 99% done, before that it'd probably not be worth the work tried turtles with spark shot and magnets only? i hope not; stuff like that was "fun" to test though |
| Thanatos-Zero |
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Nipper Plant Level: 45 Posts: 161/423 EXP: 652777 Next: 7387 Since: 11-25-08 From: Germany - Rheinlandpfalz - Wittlich - Zur Phillippsburg 25 Last post: 1090 days Last view: 1052 days |
Posted by Praetarius Yes those in Wily 6. I would have prefered sections where dexterity is needed, such as these rising platforms of Sparkmans Stage, as well these red platforms which opens in the middle with some normal platforms, where you can recover some concentration Also in some stages, like Geminiman's one has that evil Blues trap. I think you should remove that, because nobody thinks that it is a bottomless pit. I also recommend to use less enemies. The more they are crowded, the more less you can proceed the stage. Snakeman's bossroom is evil. Even if you defeat him, the spikes can still kill you. The Needle Ballade Stage has after the first Ballade a passage, in which rush cannot go through. You actually have no choice but to slidejump this one and often the trick doesn't work, which results in many lost lives. Not to forget some spikes are in the same level with the normal ground, which results in a fast death, even if the spikes looks like they are one level below. Posted by Praetarius Not at all. In my first post I said, that the pictures of your hack are appealing to me. The palettes, the rearrangement of the tiles and the design most of the stages are good, some however needs work like Wily 6, because it appears so bland. I recommend to use all tiles to their fullest potencial in each level for the joy in the eyes. Posted by Praetarius 1.Are you sure? The hack is hard as it is with its unfair places. 2. A wise choise, also I suggest to remove and to enlarge the distance between Rockman and the spikes. Edit: Make sure to fix the glitched watersplash. ____________________ I was a prisoner enclosed in the void, were everything might end up just as myself. There I was called the death in the void, but after a long sleep my drill was ready to pierce the void. I came back... to guide those who are in doubt and to crush any corrupted mind. "Just who in the hell do you think I am?!". |
| Mineyl |
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 Ninji Level: 35 Posts: 181/243 EXP: 276838 Next: 3098 Since: 09-10-09 From: World 5 Last post: 4277 days Last view: 462 days |
I'm going to give this hack a try later on. Since it's a demo, I'll try to give feedback about what I think can be improved. Judging from what I'm reading, this is going to be quite an experience...but if it's about the same difficulty/frustration level as Rockman 3 Alpha and Megaman III Return, then it should at least be manageable. ____________________ Back from the beyond. |
| Trax |
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 Yellow Stalfos Level: 71 Posts: 999/1145 EXP: 3035509 Next: 131605 Since: 07-06-07 From: Québec Last post: 3625 days Last view: 2877 days |
I'm wondering again WHY people still insist in using browser-raping sites like MegaUpload, while there are more efficient and free services out there, including this forum upload section.
EDIT: okay, this is ALMOST fun. I mean, this is ridiculous. For most of the levels, I died in the first 3 screens. Places with unavoidable traps or enemies, rate of being hit is higher, enemy HP is higher, spikes avoided using pixel-jumping, etc... I mean, in Gemini Man stage, you meet with Proto Man, he destroys the thing there, you jump in and... you die. At this point, if the game was a real cartridge, it would have been promptly destroyed... |
| Praetarius |
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Level: 12 Posts: 8/23 EXP: 7825 Next: 96 Since: 07-14-10 Last post: 4645 days Last view: 4574 days |
was this meant in spike ballade stage? 
stars... form an arrow... nah, i'm probably hallucinating and... if the traps and enemies were really unavoidable the game couldn't possibly be finished; hard to avoid: yes, impossible: not |
| Thanatos-Zero |
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Nipper Plant Level: 45 Posts: 162/423 EXP: 652777 Next: 7387 Since: 11-25-08 From: Germany - Rheinlandpfalz - Wittlich - Zur Phillippsburg 25 Last post: 1090 days Last view: 1052 days |
Yes, that place in the Spike Ballade Stage gave me nightmares. ____________________ I was a prisoner enclosed in the void, were everything might end up just as myself. There I was called the death in the void, but after a long sleep my drill was ready to pierce the void. I came back... to guide those who are in doubt and to crush any corrupted mind. "Just who in the hell do you think I am?!". |
| Praetarius |
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Level: 12 Posts: 9/23 EXP: 7825 Next: 96 Since: 07-14-10 Last post: 4645 days Last view: 4574 days |
sometimes rush fits at the first try, other times i need to adjust his height a bit, but he definitly fits through there (see screenshot above)
or i probably didn't understand you right |
| Thanatos-Zero |
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Nipper Plant Level: 45 Posts: 163/423 EXP: 652777 Next: 7387 Since: 11-25-08 From: Germany - Rheinlandpfalz - Wittlich - Zur Phillippsburg 25 Last post: 1090 days Last view: 1052 days |
In my case Rush refused constantly. ____________________ I was a prisoner enclosed in the void, were everything might end up just as myself. There I was called the death in the void, but after a long sleep my drill was ready to pierce the void. I came back... to guide those who are in doubt and to crush any corrupted mind. "Just who in the hell do you think I am?!". |
| manu89 |
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 Goomba Level: 12 Posts: 11/22 EXP: 7482 Next: 439 Since: 12-02-09 Last post: 4995 days Last view: 5002 days |
Praetarius, I played only two levels of the game (Top Man's stage and Wily's Stage 1) to try it consideriing its bad fame, and I learned immediately that you didn't value several aspects for making a good hack.
It's simple: you only thinked to render your game very difficult, inserting a lot of traps and obstacles (too many) to the detriment of the amusement and the entertainment. You must reason: how can a player be interested to play a game not involving? In your hack there are only spikes, too strong enemies ecc. The only good thing I found is that you can lengthen the stages (I saw it in Wily's Stage 1, I ignore if you did it elsewhere too). In the whole your hack is very poor (also graphic modifies are often imperfect); anyway, you have good competences in rom hacking: you can try to create a new hack starting from scratch, but remember that the quality of a game isn't directly proportional to its difficult. OT: Thanatos-Zero, I sent a mail to your address. |
| Praetarius |
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Level: 12 Posts: 10/23 EXP: 7825 Next: 96 Since: 07-14-10 Last post: 4645 days Last view: 4574 days |
hmmm.... how can i work with a judgement stemming from only 2 of 14 stages...
as for spikes, there are quite a lot - yes, but there are rooms without them; some are ironically harder without spikes than with (e.g. to allow you to summon rush to "cheat" the platforming), and ONLY is definitly not true, there are enough empty spaces to get through!! strong enemies - in giving damage or taking? giving (numerical): except for maybe damage on body contact is NOT changed -giving (frequency): yes, 'cause of shorter invincibilty; maybe, just maybe it could work as a indirect reward for dodging skills? may i take needle man as an example (even though you obviously hadn't encountered him): if you don't bother to dodge you get two hits from an entire needle stream, if you're good enough you can get it down to 1 or even 0; now re-think that with "long" invincibilty: unless you jump perfectly you get exactly 1 hit, thus undervalueing the more skilled one, which could dodge almost all compared to the one who doesn't bother to even move - both get hit same sure it makes it harder, but is it wrong to "reward" those that bother? -taking damage: let's see, maybe 30-50% more - tried using special weapons? (of the two stages you mentioned in wily stage ofc. - although it doesn't sound like it) some of them kill some enemies even faster than in the original i know/agree that quality isn't proportional to difficulty, but an too easy one isn't fun either; a "good" difficulty would be of the type challenging. this however is very subjective. after testing stuff for months the line between "beat by skill" and "beat by knowledge" (before starting this i didn't know stuff like slide over rush or how/whether sliding affects following jumps, etc. or simple stuff like weaknesses, enemy positions) tend to blur... "in the whole your hack is very poor" is very poor itself after playing only 2 stages; it just makes assumptions that random ~15% are exactly like the rest, but if you're omniscient - sure why not |
| manu89 |
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Goomba Level: 12 Posts: 12/22 EXP: 7482 Next: 439 Since: 12-02-09 Last post: 4995 days Last view: 5002 days |
Praetarius, a good hack is immediately recognizable. You don't get upset about my comment: anyway, I underline that I have judged your game, not you. Starting from scratch you could make a new very good hack, but the current is not involving because of several reasons, like obviously the extreme difficulty; It seems that rather than Mega Man the person who was against the world were you when you hacked the game!
Have you ever thinked to compare mentally your hack with others? |
| Praetarius |
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Level: 12 Posts: 11/23 EXP: 7825 Next: 96 Since: 07-14-10 Last post: 4645 days Last view: 4574 days |
I guess I have to work on my recognizing skills - last time I had to actually play through an entire game to get an oppinion about the whole game; sure there were some really bad stages, but also good ones - can I use the first (bad) stage I come across as a reference for an entire game next time?
Note: I do NOT claim that my other stages are better, just that I disapprove the HOW of that judgement; 2/14 could by chance have been outliers - and forming from that an oppinion about the whole game seems a bit unfair to me. If you had said instead something like: "I played those two stages and they were so bad because of [reason(s)] that it made my stop playing the entire game" - that would have sounded logical to me. Honestly, I'd like to know the not-so-obvious reasons for not-involving, so I can avoid those mistakes next time; the point of difficulty came across almost a week ago, stating that again is nothing new (unless maybe made more specifically) and doesn't help me - an "easy" version is already planned, but only once i'm finished; removing enemies and stuff is easier than adding them, because the later might make it unwinnable and therefor requires way more testing, wasting precious time. The title is just a play on the concept that -dr.light in the cutscenes aside- there is noone who would be (strictly) on your side (like eddie from 4 onward) in this game. It's not like megaman is really against the world, just all that are shown are against him - enemies, bosses, (non-static) platforms, etc. Have I thought to compare it with other hacks... I guess I had only bad hack examples then - subjective they were more difficult, but yeah - subjective. |
| Mineyl |
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Ninji Level: 35 Posts: 182/243 EXP: 276838 Next: 3098 Since: 09-10-09 From: World 5 Last post: 4277 days Last view: 462 days |
Well, I just beat the hack...with heavy savestate abuse, of course.
This hack is fun if you go in knowing that it is basically the Megaman equivalent of Kaizo Mario World, otherwise you'll be in for a very rude awakening. There are a LOT of cheap enemy placements, low-ceiling jumps, tight jumps around spikes, guessing games where if you screen transition down the wrong path there are spikes waiting to kill you instantly, impossible to dodge boss AI edits, and fake floors (the fake floors were manageable, though). That being said, I still enjoyed it because I went in expecting the worst. If it will help you design better hacks in the future, I could do a playthrough of the game, put it on Youtube, and point out everything that is cheap and unfair. If you need advice now, though, all you need to do is create a game that feels less about luck and more about skill. This game requires a lot of luck to pass any given stage without death. In my opinion, a good game (and by extension, a good hack) will be challenging enough to be enjoyable, but an adequately skilled player should be able to conquer it without a plethora of game overs and deaths. As it stands, the level design is presented in such a manner that the player will die many times regardless of skill, and that is something you'll want to avoid unless you yourself enjoy savestate-filled challenges such as these. EDIT: I don't know what in the world you did to Hard Knuckle, but for the love of all things holy...change it back. It is extremely unwieldy and to make it the only weapon that works on the second form of the Wily stage 5 boss is downright satanic. ____________________ Back from the beyond. |
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