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04-18-24 05:40 PM |
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| Main - ROM Hacking - asm programming = slave labor | New thread | New reply |
| Aaendi |
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 Red Koopa Level: 27 Posts: 35/131 EXP: 109111 Next: 7048 Since: 10-18-09 Last post: 4662 days Last view: 4323 days |
Posted by Parasyte First of all, yes I want to make a killer-app. Secondly, I want to be the art direction. I know how to animate very impressive looking explosions and bosses. The issue is that I'm afraid the programmer is going butcher everything I do. I don't want my beautiful multijoined sprite boss to be replaced by an ugly bg-layer boss that doesn't move! |
| Kawa |
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 CHIKKN NI A BAAZZKIT!!! 80's Cheerilee is best pony Level: 138 Posts: 3133/5344 EXP: 30925829 Next: 737152 Since: 02-20-07 From: The Netherlands Last post: 4490 days Last view: 2625 days |
And why would a a background layer based boss "not move"? The layer itself can move, several body parts can be split off as sprites... I've seen it done plenty times. ____________________ Wife make lunch - Shampoo Opera - give it a spin Spare some of your free time? <GreyMaria> I walked around the Lake so many goddamn times that my sex drive was brutally murdered Kawa rocks  — byuu |
| Aaendi |
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Red Koopa Level: 27 Posts: 36/131 EXP: 109111 Next: 7048 Since: 10-18-09 Last post: 4662 days Last view: 4323 days |
Sprites can move seperately from eachother; with background layers the boss can only move at a whole. I've also seen background layer bosses before, the animation is always choppier and more confined than sprite based bosses. |
| Kawa |
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CHIKKN NI A BAAZZKIT!!! 80's Cheerilee is best pony Level: 138 Posts: 3134/5344 EXP: 30925829 Next: 737152 Since: 02-20-07 From: The Netherlands Last post: 4490 days Last view: 2625 days |
Allow me to rephrase: the background part of the boss can move, the sprite parts of the boss can move, the boss itself as a whole can move independantly from the scenery. So I repeat, why would a background layer based boss "not move"?
To cover the other angle, when you say "multijoined sprite", do you mean "multi-jointed", like the screen-tall armor at the start of Castlevania Harmony of Dissonance on the GBA? Because if you do, you'll make the task of whoever'll be the programmer of your so-called killer app very, very difficult, what with all the individually rotated parts and the math that entails, both in keeping the construction together and figuring out the affine matrices. ____________________ Wife make lunch - Shampoo Opera - give it a spin Spare some of your free time? <GreyMaria> I walked around the Lake so many goddamn times that my sex drive was brutally murdered Kawa rocks — byuu |
| Aaendi |
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Red Koopa Level: 27 Posts: 37/131 EXP: 109111 Next: 7048 Since: 10-18-09 Last post: 4662 days Last view: 4323 days |
I'd draw the same sprites in 16 different angles. |
| Kawa |
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CHIKKN NI A BAAZZKIT!!! 80's Cheerilee is best pony Level: 138 Posts: 3137/5344 EXP: 30925829 Next: 737152 Since: 02-20-07 From: The Netherlands Last post: 4490 days Last view: 2625 days |
That'd help, but only a bit. You'd still have to work out which rotation angle to use. ____________________ Wife make lunch - Shampoo Opera - give it a spin Spare some of your free time? <GreyMaria> I walked around the Lake so many goddamn times that my sex drive was brutally murdered Kawa rocks — byuu |
| Parasyte |
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 Red Goomba Level: 18 Posts: 46/48 EXP: 24769 Next: 5128 Since: 02-09-09 From: Flagstaff, AZ Last post: 5202 days Last view: 5180 days |
Using hardware rotation will produce less "choppy" results than having sprites drawn at different angles.
Would I rather have 360 steps of rotation, or 16? Hmmm, that's a tough decision... |
| Aaendi |
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Red Koopa Level: 27 Posts: 38/131 EXP: 109111 Next: 7048 Since: 10-18-09 Last post: 4662 days Last view: 4323 days |
Posted by Parasyte Snes's hardware rotation is only for mode-7 backgrounds, not for individual sprites. Unless you mean software rotation, which would require a lot of programming work. To get the most amount of speed from software rotation, I would rotate the sprites at parts of the game where there are deliberately no enemies on screen (such as a short cut scene before a boss), and keep the rotation frames in wram or vram until the boss is dead. A good thing about the PPU is that it has horizontal and vertical flips, which you can use to fit double the amount of rotation frames in memory for normal sprites, quadrupal the amount for symetrical sprites, or octuple the amount of rotation frames for sprites with two axis of symetry. |
| Kawa |
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CHIKKN NI A BAAZZKIT!!! 80's Cheerilee is best pony Level: 138 Posts: 3138/5344 EXP: 30925829 Next: 737152 Since: 02-20-07 From: The Netherlands Last post: 4490 days Last view: 2625 days |
That's all well and good, but wouldn't you rather have at least one level with a relatively simple boss to start with before worrying about the really complicated multijointed screenfilling opponents? Doesn't mean you have to scrap your designs altogether, y'know...
Also, sprites can rotate if you use the SuperFX2 chip or something -- Yoshi's Island anyone? ____________________ Wife make lunch - Shampoo Opera - give it a spin Spare some of your free time? <GreyMaria> I walked around the Lake so many goddamn times that my sex drive was brutally murdered Kawa rocks — byuu |
| Aaendi |
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Red Koopa Level: 27 Posts: 39/131 EXP: 109111 Next: 7048 Since: 10-18-09 Last post: 4662 days Last view: 4323 days |
For now, I'm just happy to see how far this thread has gone without any flaming. I used to be on smwcentral.net last year (under a different user name) and I used to get horribly flamed everytime I remotely implied that the Super Nintendo was fast enough to display multijointed sprites.
Other than Acmlm's Board 2, snesdev.net is also a pretty good site although it is a little slow activity wise. The website's owner UnDisbeleiver has been working on an Snes game engine, but it is taking over 3 years to finish it and there isn't a lot of activity due to most of the members waiting for it. A few days ago, I suggested making a much simpler and basic engine for now since the more complex engine is taking so long, and they thought it was a good idea. So currently my run'n'gun game is put aside and I'm instead working on a very basic engine. When I get this done, I'll spread around, and take a long break in programming and see how it will end up after a few months. |
| ninjablooper |
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 Bullet Bill Level: 49 Posts: 71/509 EXP: 834970 Next: 48913 Since: 10-27-09 From: Earth Last post: 2991 days Last view: 2965 days |
Good luck.
Posted by Parasyte This is true. Aaendi, look at the DSU hack (a team hack on this other site I know him from). I'm doing graphics, some music, and a tiny bit a level design, but there are areas I just can't do. For example, I can't successfully make entire Mario graphics because I suck at making human sprites and I can't do ASM. Luckily a good deal of people are working on this so I don't bang my head repeatedly on a desk. You are going to have trouble doing this alone. I'd start looking for an experienced team to help jump-start you on this on whatever topic you want to learn. If you want to learn programming watch someone programming and ask questions. Feel free to quit. Some people may be face-palming, but you can always quit and change what your contributing. You don't want to be stuck doing something you hate unless you need to. ____________________ -Ninjablooper  |
| Dwedit |
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 Red Paratroopa Level: 30 Posts: 154/162 EXP: 163040 Next: 2829 Since: 03-07-07 From: Chicago Last post: 3511 days Last view: 1605 days |
Didn't Sivak get someone else to help with the art? ____________________ |
| Parasyte |
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Red Goomba Level: 18 Posts: 48/48 EXP: 24769 Next: 5128 Since: 02-09-09 From: Flagstaff, AZ Last post: 5202 days Last view: 5180 days |
I'm not sure. That's a good question. |
| Aaendi |
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Red Koopa Level: 27 Posts: 40/131 EXP: 109111 Next: 7048 Since: 10-18-09 Last post: 4662 days Last view: 4323 days |
I do want help, but I'm not quite sure how I want others to help me. If anybody wants to work on graphics or anything you can tell me if you want. It's easy for 2 people to work on things like graphics, but it's hard to have 2 people programming the same game.
But just so I feel like I didn't do all this work for nothing, here is the code for scrolling and tile map updating that I already tested out and made sure it worked: lda $00 ;;$00 is x coordinate sta $210d lda $01 sta $210d lda $08 ;;$08 is y cooridnate sta $210e stz $210e lda $09 asl asl asl and #$18 clc adc #$43 sta $2107 rep #$20 lda $00 lsr lsr lsr clc adc $02 ;;$02 is #$0000 if moving backwards sta $04 ;;$02 is #$0020 if moving forwards sep #$20 lda #$81 sta $2115 lda $04 and #$1f sta $2116 lda $04 and #$20 lsr lsr lsr clc adc #$40 sta $2117 lda #$01 sta $4300 lda #$18 sta $4301 stz $4302 lda $04 ora #$80 sta $4303 lda $04 asl lda $05 rol sta $4304 lda #$40 sta $4305 stz $4306 lda #$01 sta $420b lda #$81 sta $2115 lda $04 and #$1f sta $2116 lda $04 and #$20 lsr lsr lsr clc adc #$48 sta $2117 lda #$01 sta $4300 lda #$18 sta $4301 lda #$40 sta $4302 lda $0e44 ora #$80 sta $4303 lda $04 asl lda $05 rol sta $4304 lda #$40 sta $4305 stz $4306 lda #$01 sta $420b lda #$81 sta $2115 lda $04 and #$1f sta $2116 lda $04 and #$20 lsr lsr lsr clc adc #$50 sta $2117 lda #$01 sta $4300 lda #$18 sta $4301 lda #$80 sta $4302 lda $04 ora #$80 sta $4303 lda $04 asl lda $05 rol sta $4304 lda #$40 sta $4305 stz $4306 lda #$01 sta $420b lda #$81 sta $2115 lda $04 and #$1f sta $2116 lda $04 and #$20 lsr lsr lsr clc adc #$58 sta $2117 lda #$01 sta $4300 lda #$18 sta $4301 lda #$c0 sta $4302 lda $04 ora #$80 sta $4303 lda $04 asl lda $05 rol sta $4304 lda #$40 sta $4305 stz $4306 lda #$01 sta $420b For those who want to program, here is something already figured out for you. |
| Main - ROM Hacking - asm programming = slave labor | New thread | New reply |
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