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Main - ROM Hacking - Currently making a Mega Man 3 Hack & new to it-- any advice? New thread | New reply

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Keiya633
Posted on 09-06-09 05:49 PM Link | Quote | ID: 114603


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The only questions I have in particular is how to make some animations, like moving clouds or rain, or slippery or conveyor belts (without using the rotating wheels floors?

Anyway, I finished two levels: Snake Man and Shadow Man. I have videos on Youtube but I'll also show screen shots.







Gemini Man's level still needs work, however. As you can see, I didn't use custom tiles for Snake or Shadow; I felt the default tiles were just fine. (actually, the main reason for that was because I was too fearful to try and draw stuff)

A question regarding Gemini Man's level layout; do the crystals match the cobweb looking texture? I think it looks fine but a friend of mine disagreed.

(haha, all of my pictures are different sizes)

koala_knight
Posted on 09-06-09 06:36 PM (rev. 2 of 09-07-09 03:30 PM) Link | Quote | ID: 114605


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They need a better palette, but otherwise they're fine. I'd change the ice blocks in to something else. Maybe use the crystal-ish looking floors from the above ground portion of the original stage?

Keiya633
Posted on 09-06-09 06:47 PM Link | Quote | ID: 114606


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Posted by koala_knight
They need a better palette, but otherwise they're fine. I'd change the ice blocks in to something more else. Maybe use the crystal-ish looking floors from the above ground portion of the original stage?


Which crystals are you suggesting need a better palette? Both? I sort of hand drew them myself, looking at the crystals from Rockman No Constancy's Quick Man stage and sketched from there. As a result the bigger ones look funny.

Omit the ice blocks completely? I want to somewhat make it have a unique look to it; as Gemini Man's stage was kind of wacky, I want this level to appear in the same fashion. I wouldn't mind making the dominant ground the crystal floor from the above area (if that makes sense) but I'm sure there's some way the ice blocks can fit...

Meh, it just sounds like I'm having clashing opinions. I think I'll just wait to see what some others have to say before coming to a final conclusion. I know you're trying to help, so thank you for that.

Megaman-Omega
Posted on 09-07-09 11:02 AM Link | Quote | ID: 114635


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Ah it's good to see more Megaman 3 hackers out here this is looking quite good except for a few nit picky things I noticed

Shadowman's stage looks really good. To be honest I can honestly say that it seems much better theme wise than the original. I'll be honest I never understood why a ninja robot was in a...geothermal power plant? I don't know but the lava never sat well with me making it half water seems much better

Snakeman however...doesn't sit well with me in a few instances. Firstly the palette really seems wonky...the blue just really doesn't seem right to me. I mean when I think of snakes I think either green, brown, or black I didn't even think there were blue snakes before I checked google. Secondly on top of the blue everything it makes it feel like an ice stage now which granted if you make everything slippery both complains would make more sense but then again after seeing the stage that would be more than just a little overkill. On that note the yellow background looks funny to boot. I'm pretty sure the sky never actually turns completely yellow like that. I'm thinking maybe black sky with stars and the like added in along with dark blue clouds would look better like a night time look.
Another think that I can't help but pick at a bit. The snake tubes that curve and the spikes have a bit of the wall in the back of it. With that in mind such blocks have no business having sky behind them in the way you have it. However the corridor leading up to Snakeman and his room itself are the only parts where this happens so if you choose to it's an easy fix.

By the way just throwing this out there but I was thinking on how you were to fearful to try and draw new graphics for Snake and Shadow. How about implementing tiles from other Megaman games like the way Infidelity did in Megaman Ultra. While not having the fully custom look of hacks that go all out it would still have that air of originality that's not as hard to implement. I might add if you're trying to keep the levels the same feel of the original one think that came to mind would be to use ground graphics from Drillman, Stone, or Flame to give the feeling of snakes slithering around underground.

As far as Gemini is concerned it looks good but yes the palette does need a bit of work maybe making the gray parts of the blocks white and the yellow parts of the crystals white as well.
Also rather than redrawing the crystals from Rockman no Constancy why don't you just go to the source material and look through Crystal Snails stage from X2?

koala_knight
Posted on 09-07-09 03:34 PM Link | Quote | ID: 114637


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You could also go to Crystalman's stage for inspiration.

Keiya633
Posted on 09-07-09 03:51 PM Link | Quote | ID: 114639


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Posted by Megaman-Omega
Ah it's good to see more Megaman 3 hackers out here this is looking quite good except for a few nit picky things I noticed

Shadowman's stage looks really good. To be honest I can honestly say that it seems much better theme wise than the original. I'll be honest I never understood why a ninja robot was in a...geothermal power plant? I don't know but the lava never sat well with me making it half water seems much better

Snakeman however...doesn't sit well with me in a few instances. Firstly the palette really seems wonky...the blue just really doesn't seem right to me. I mean when I think of snakes I think either green, brown, or black I didn't even think there were blue snakes before I checked google. Secondly on top of the blue everything it makes it feel like an ice stage now which granted if you make everything slippery both complains would make more sense but then again after seeing the stage that would be more than just a little overkill. On that note the yellow background looks funny to boot. I'm pretty sure the sky never actually turns completely yellow like that. I'm thinking maybe black sky with stars and the like added in along with dark blue clouds would look better like a night time look.
Another think that I can't help but pick at a bit. The snake tubes that curve and the spikes have a bit of the wall in the back of it. With that in mind such blocks have no business having sky behind them in the way you have it. However the corridor leading up to Snakeman and his room itself are the only parts where this happens so if you choose to it's an easy fix.

By the way just throwing this out there but I was thinking on how you were to fearful to try and draw new graphics for Snake and Shadow. How about implementing tiles from other Megaman games like the way Infidelity did in Megaman Ultra. While not having the fully custom look of hacks that go all out it would still have that air of originality that's not as hard to implement. I might add if you're trying to keep the levels the same feel of the original one think that came to mind would be to use ground graphics from Drillman, Stone, or Flame to give the feeling of snakes slithering around underground.

As far as Gemini is concerned it looks good but yes the palette does need a bit of work maybe making the gray parts of the blocks white and the yellow parts of the crystals white as well.
Also rather than redrawing the crystals from Rockman no Constancy why don't you just go to the source material and look through Crystal Snails stage from X2?


Thanks for the praise about Shadow Man's stage. I agreed with you; I never understood why his stage was in a geothermal plant. Plus, his "lava" was easy to convert to water. The entire stage isn't underwater of course, but I made it look more like a sewer of sorts. I wouldn't say it's better; I just wanted to try something new. XD

Perhaps blue isn't the best color for Snake Man's layout, but I wanted to divert from green plus I thought it was a nice touch. Rockman 3 Alpha also made it dominantly blue, but used rain for the original stage. Honestly, I don't understand how it looks like an ice stage though. As far as the yellow tinted sky, I wanted it to appear like a sunset but not yet dusk. I know it's somewhat unnatural looking, so maybe a light red would be more appropriate. I don't want a night sky for this stage (I'm considering making it one of the Doc Robot stages, and at that time the sky will be bleak) so I voted against the idea.

To explain why the snake tubes are the in the sky, the only reason for that is due to Snake Heads being around the stage. What I'm trying to make the stage appear as is a segmented castle that is infested by snake terrain, which is presumably due to Snake Man err... conquering the castle, or something. I'll try to work on the tubes but I can't promise I'll succeed... (palette set limitations)

Regarding the ugliness of Gemini Man's crystals, I looked at the crystals from Rockman No Constancy (Quick Man's stage) and pixelated them. So they're not perfect. The gray streaks on the ice blocks I'll improve as I construct more of the stages, and the abnormal color of the crystals is because they're animated similar to the Cobweb block things in the original Gemini Man's stage, so they glow in four sets of colors. It'd make more sense if you were to see a gif animation of them glowing. I would prefer to follow your advice and use Crystal Snail's stage source material but I'm still a novice at ROM hacking so I don't know how to do that. =/

The crystal walls are animated in the same fashion as the cobwebs... and a way I can explain the "cobwebs" is that they're cracks in the cave revealing the crystal. I'm pretty sure it doesn't match so the cave will start with only a small amount of cracks and as the stage progresses more the crystals will be more abundant. The snapshot was to get everything cluttered together so you can see what I'm working with.

I'm sorry that this is so long and probably vague. I also apologize if I may have come off as brash or unwilling to listen to suggestions. Like I said, I'm new to ROM hacking so I'm not sure of how to do much; that's why I signed up on here to learn more.

------------------------------------------------------

I mentioned that I recorded videos of the two stages, so here's a link to them:

Snake Man:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHLggmP9P8w

Shadow Man:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKkzxuEdwH0

In the annotations I explain the struggles I had while making the stage (how I can't get the shutters to work; I think they're hard coded in the game but that doesn't seem to be the case with MM2) and things I softened after recording (that's largely Snake Man's stage, such as rough screen transition and the ugly palette swap in the giant snake rooms) I think it's much better to see the stage in motion so you know what the entire stage looks like. I think then you'll get the full understanding of what the stages look like. =P

I thank everyone who is contributing the time to work with who I see as a stubborn person like myself. It's much appreciated.

Keiya633
Posted on 09-09-09 03:25 AM Link | Quote | ID: 114751


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Posted by koala_knight
You could also go to Crystalman's stage for inspiration.


I already have, somewhat. I didn't use much of the tiles from there, however.


Insectduel
Posted on 09-09-09 09:42 PM (rev. 3 of 09-09-09 09:43 PM) Link | Quote | ID: 114794


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Speaking of modifying Mega Man 3, I checked Puresabe's webpage about today and read the news. And also found that there's a bunch of Rockman 3 ASM patches pack in his homepage. Tonight I'll check them all. And I'm not sure if some of them also works with Mega Man III but I believe the IPS patch themselves do not due to memory or code shifting.

However, I can read NES 6502 assembly and I was able to convert the data to other regions of the game for people that needed it in their own game.

The following codes are:

Quick Fading
Instant Recover
Quick Opening Window
Quick Scrolling? WTF!

4 different ones and a few in Rock5easilys page.




Keiya633
Posted on 09-11-09 09:42 AM Link | Quote | ID: 114892


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Posted by Insectduel
Speaking of modifying Mega Man 3, I checked Puresabe's webpage about today and read the news. And also found that there's a bunch of Rockman 3 ASM patches pack in his homepage. Tonight I'll check them all. And I'm not sure if some of them also works with Mega Man III but I believe the IPS patch themselves do not due to memory or code shifting.

However, I can read NES 6502 assembly and I was able to convert the data to other regions of the game for people that needed it in their own game.

The following codes are:

Quick Fading
Instant Recover
Quick Opening Window
Quick Scrolling? WTF!

4 different ones and a few in Rock5easilys page.






I'm going to assume the "WTF!" is because Quick Scrolling is already in MM3, right? XD

Those seem like pretty interesting codes. I haven't worked on my hack much this week; not much free time at the moment.

I read the thread discussing kuja killer's MM3 hack and a post by Kiokuffiib11 caught my eye. It stated:

Posted by Kiokuffiib11
Might I throw some info in?

The Mega Man IV data is the same, just in different locations.

If you see something you want to change in Mega Man III that you see in IV, look at the code in IV (The hex code (EG: 01 02 00 ff)) and then search for the same values in Mega Man III.

Hope that helps.

I'm sorry if that's a little unclear, but, you should be able to get the gist of what I mean I believe.


Does that mean I can implement wind effects (the rain portion in Toad Man's stage) and ice (Dr. Cossack Stage 1) into Mega Man 3? I also saw your (Insectduel) Rockman Sparking To Hero playthrough and you mentioned something about the wind in Pharaoh Man's stage. I'm wondering if these two things have a relation...

I have little to no experience regarding ASM effects...

And since you (Insectduel again) asked about me doing a run of STH, I'm still working on Dood In Gate. I should be finished by this weekend or the beginning of next week. It depends if I don't have a bunch of random events popping up again...

Kiokuffiib11
Posted on 09-11-09 04:57 PM Link | Quote | ID: 114900


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I'm not definite. I know someone implimented the charge shot in III, I would assume that you might be able to.

You might have to put those features in an empty spot in the rom, (Which means you MIGHT have to expand the rom, and have it JMP to it. But, I think you can do it.

I'm thinking that's how it works.

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Thanatos-Zero
Posted on 09-11-09 10:25 PM Link | Quote | ID: 114910


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Posted by Kiokuffiib11
I'm not definite. I know someone implimented the charge shot in III, I would assume that you might be able to.


That was our dear friend Kuja Killer.

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I came back... to guide those who are in doubt and to crush any corrupted mind.
"Just who in the hell do you think I am?!".

Insectduel
Posted on 09-12-09 12:00 AM Link | Quote | ID: 114921


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Mega Man IV uses Ice tiles in 1 level only which is cossack 1. It's impossible to work in all the levels unless there is a way to do it. And I don't know if it's possible to create a Ice tile for Mega Man III.

Thanatos-Zero
Posted on 09-12-09 01:20 AM Link | Quote | ID: 114925


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Such a task is not a impossible thing Insectduel. Have more trust in yourself. You can do it, if you want.
So, to make for you motivation, I request from you a 16x16 tile with 6 colours. 3 for the Ice and 3 for the platform on which the ice is.
Ice colours: White, Light Blue, Blue.
Platform colours: Yellow, Orange, Black.

Now try it.

____________________
I was a prisoner enclosed in the void, were everything might end up just as myself.
There I was called the death in the void, but after a long sleep my drill was ready to pierce the void.
I came back... to guide those who are in doubt and to crush any corrupted mind.
"Just who in the hell do you think I am?!".

Kiokuffiib11
Posted on 09-12-09 05:55 AM Link | Quote | ID: 114950


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One problem.

The NES palette can only do 4 colours at once on each object.

You would have to make it essentially 2 objects to pull that off.

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kuja killer
Posted on 09-12-09 11:32 AM (rev. 2 of 09-12-09 11:33 AM) Link | Quote | ID: 114953


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i felt like trying that ice property "just-for-fun" on my game..
only took like 10 minutes. it's not perfect, i'd say about 75%

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDPkOMlTXWM

Thanatos-Zero
Posted on 09-12-09 03:14 PM Link | Quote | ID: 114957


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Posted by Kiokuffiib11
One problem.

The NES palette can only do 4 colours at once on each object.

You would have to make it essentially 2 objects to pull that off.


That was my intention. I have also thought about layers. One 16x16 tile without ice, and the other one with a ice layer. After this, you only need to program which tiles are shown in a certain row. For example, Rockman. We see him for the most times as the dorminant front object, but sometimes a waterfall hides him.

-------------------------------------
That is our ASM programmer, which we all love and admire.

Good job Kuja_Killer. ^^

____________________
I was a prisoner enclosed in the void, were everything might end up just as myself.
There I was called the death in the void, but after a long sleep my drill was ready to pierce the void.
I came back... to guide those who are in doubt and to crush any corrupted mind.
"Just who in the hell do you think I am?!".

Kawa
Posted on 09-12-09 03:21 PM Link | Quote | ID: 114958


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Posted by Thanatos-Zero
That was my intention. I have also thought about layers. One 16x16 tile without ice, and the other one with a ice layer.
That's not what you said before:
Posted by Thanatos_Zero
I request from you a 16x16 tile with 6 colours.


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Keiya633
Posted on 09-12-09 03:28 PM Link | Quote | ID: 114959


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Posted by Kiokuffiib11
I'm not definite. I know someone implimented the charge shot in III, I would assume that you might be able to.

You might have to put those features in an empty spot in the rom, (Which means you MIGHT have to expand the rom, and have it JMP to it. But, I think you can do it.

I'm thinking that's how it works.


Ah, expanding the ROM. Yeah I wondered how Matrixz is putting so much stuff into Mega Man Forever... I'll probably want to do that to avoid the risk of overwriting other data in the game.

I'm still reading up on ASM since I'm completely new to it.

Thanks for the info though; after I'll do more research on ASM I'll try to work this.

Posted by Insectduel
Mega Man IV uses Ice tiles in 1 level only which is cossack 1. It's impossible to work in all the levels unless there is a way to do it. And I don't know if it's possible to create a Ice tile for Mega Man III.


Yup, only Cossack stage 1 has slippery floors. And if you can generate a floor type to be slick anywhere in the game, it can work in any stage. You can program spikes to be slippery (but in this case, you would omit its death to the touch property) if you so wish; the floor properties don't come with the tile; you set them yourself. It's similar to how I made what was once lava in Shadow Man's stage to become aquatic terrain.

I don't know anything about ASM but I at least know that bit. XD though I'm not degrading you.

Posted by Thanatos-Zero
Such a task is not a impossible thing Insectduel. Have more trust in yourself. You can do it, if you want.
So, to make for you motivation, I request from you a 16x16 tile with 6 colours. 3 for the Ice and 3 for the platform on which the ice is.
Ice colours: White, Light Blue, Blue.
Platform colours: Yellow, Orange, Black.

Now try it.


I think what he's talking about is programming the floor to be slippery, not drawing ice looking tiles. I've already converted ice looking tiles into Gemini Man's tile set, though they're somewhat ugly, and I'm asking for them to have slippery properties, which kuja killer did in his video.

I can attempt to custom draw my own 16x16 ice tile if you want, but I won't guarantee it'll look pretty at all. =/ But Kiokuffiib11 is right, if you want to use six different colors it'd have be two objects, as NES palette sets are only 4 colours.

Posted by kuja killer
i felt like trying that ice property "just-for-fun" on my game..
only took like 10 minutes. it's not perfect, i'd say about 75%

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDPkOMlTXWM


That's great, Kuja Killer! I really do admire your skills. Could I ask to use that for my hack? I want to learn how to do it for myself too.

Thanatos-Zero
Posted on 09-12-09 03:29 PM Link | Quote | ID: 114960


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Posted by Kawa
Posted by Thanatos-Zero
That was my intention. I have also thought about layers. One 16x16 tile without ice, and the other one with a ice layer.
That's not what you said before:
Posted by Thanatos_Zero
I request from you a 16x16 tile with 6 colours.



Okay, you got a point. However I hadn't enough time to go deeper.

I am not without any flaws.

____________________
I was a prisoner enclosed in the void, were everything might end up just as myself.
There I was called the death in the void, but after a long sleep my drill was ready to pierce the void.
I came back... to guide those who are in doubt and to crush any corrupted mind.
"Just who in the hell do you think I am?!".

Kawa
Posted on 09-12-09 03:33 PM Link | Quote | ID: 114961


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Glad to see you admit that. It's just that you seemed to have forgotten that the palette settings are on a 16x16 grid instead of the tilemap's 8x8, unlike Kioku.

____________________
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Spare some of your free time?
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Kawa rocks — byuu
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