The following pokes are banned by standard Smogon rules

Arceus, Darkrai, Deoxys (all), Dialga, Garchomp, Giratina, Groudon, Ho-oh, Kyogre, Latios, Lugia, Manaphy, Mew, Mewtwo, Palkia, Rayquaza, Shaymin Sky-Form, Wobbuffet, Wynaut.

But if I were to hold a tourney, I would totally allow Shaymin Sky-Form.

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Posted by Trapster

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Garchomp? Why's that one banned?

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Because it's mad broke.

Posted by NightKev

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Why is (only) Shaymin Sky-form banned?

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A lot of people consider its high stats and speed, coupled with its Serene Grace ability making its Air Slash have a 60% chance of flinching and its Seed Flare have an 80% chance of lowering the opponent's special defense two stages, to be overpowering. Regular Shaymin has a different ability, less offensive stats, and he doesn't have STAB on Air Slash. In general Shaymin Sky-Form is not considered unbalanced, just very good, but due to various things that happened during testing he was banned anyway. Likely he'll be unbanned after Smogon gets around to re-testing him.

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Swords Dance is a crazy move to put on something as fast as Garchomp. Garchomp is extremely fast and strong, and as a Dragon-type gets STAB Outrage. Swords Dance makes it superpowerful. No other dragon-types get Swords Dance. This, in combination with the fact that if it holds a Yache Berry, only extremely powerful STABed ice attacks will manage to one-hit KO it means that you basically have to have two things on your team dedicated to killing Garchomp because one will probably die, or you leave yourself open to being swept by Garchomp. But it's not even that, really. As icing on the cake, however, it has a stupid, stupid ability saying that if sand is up, 20% of the time, even if you devote your team to stopping Garchomp, you'll fail, because whatever move you used simply neglected to hit Garchomp.

Swords Dance + Yache Berry + Sand Veil + Crazy good stats = Garchomp is mad broke.

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Yache Berry halves damage from ice-type moves once (not that doing it twice would help, since they normally one-shot it but instead only two-shot it). Basically it allows garchomp a free Swords Dance since you probably can't kill it. Even if you run something like a Choice Banded Weavile and you switch in on its Swords Dance, your Ice Punch still might not do the job simply because Sand Veil might say "Even though you would logically kill me here, for no real reason and without me really having to set up anything, you lose your counter." Also, if it gets confused, it can just switch out.

Also, Garchomp is likely to take down at least one of your guys, especially if you don't have one of the overcentralized Garchomp counters. Since only Steel resists dragon and Garchomp also typically packs Earthquake (it being ground-type) the only real walls are Skarmory and Bronzong... But oh wait, those die to its Fire Blasts or Fire Fangs, so nevermind. So basically it will probably get a kill before it goes down, usually more than one. That alone is pretty broken, because it basically makes it a game where you have 5 pokes and they have 4, so you obviously are at an advantage.

You can counter Garchomp, it's true, but you basically have to or you lose, you can't "play around" Garchomp like you can with so many other threats. And then there's Sand Veil, which says even if you counter Garchomp, you actually might not, which is just icing on the broken cake... Eh. Garchomp is mad broke.

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Posted by Trapster

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Putting special attacks on it wouldn't be a good idea, though, unless you want to surprise your opponent. It's sp.atk base stat is decent but its attack is so much higher.

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Putting Fire Blast on it is a fine idea if it means it can't be walled by Skarmory and Bronzong.

Posted by Gywall

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And Shaymin's Sky Forme is kinda an ass. As far as I read, you need something that either packs Ice Shard, Clear Body, or a damn high speed.

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I just use Zapdos, that thing pretty much counters the game anyway

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[03:53:03] <roxahrus> hmm [03:53:08] <roxahrus> what's the point of banning pokemon [03:53:38] <roxahrus> "this pokemon can kill other pokemon easily thereofre it must be banned" [03:53:59] <roxahrus> heavings forbid actual skill is needed to play the game

It's not really about that at all, heh. Being able to kill pokemon easily is a hallmark of a good pokemon. A pokemon like Garchomp is simply next to impossible to stop without using specific counters for it, that are generally bad against other things. When you're only trying to deal with a specific thing, and you need to explicitly be able to deal with that specific thing or else you lose, it stops becoming a game of Pokemon and starts becoming a game of Garchomp and Friends. There's a very obvious difference between the two. Winning with Garchomp actually takes significantly less skill than winning with pokemon that fulfill similar roles, such as Salamence or Scizor. It is just a matter of leading with Tyranitar or Hippowdon and, at one point, switching in Garchomp, using Swords Dance, and being obviously too strong. It's really about making it take more skill, not making it more friendly. Though, it does make it more friendly!

If you want to say "I don't want to play in an arbitrary environment," that's not really okay, because every competitive pokemon environment goes against the internal game logic on some level. Even Sleep Clause, a mainstay of competitive pokemon which is featured in all the Stadium-like games and all of Nintendo's official tournaments is not implemented in the handheld games themselves. Nintendo presents their own set of rules, including disallowed pokemon, for their tournaments. The list they use is actually significantly more restrictive than the one I presented. If you want everything to be allowed, that's cool, too - many people do in fact play at the 'uber metagame' and enjoy it, where every pokemon is allowed but stuff like Sleep Clause is still in effect.

And the uber metagame is far more centralized than the standard metagame, which is really what it's all about. Standard with Garchomp was Garchomp and Friends. Ubers is Kyogre and friends. If you like that, fine, you can play that game. there will be people who will play Kyogre and Friends with you. But most people will still want to play Standard, just because there's a lot more that's viable, and more viable combinations means a deeper game, means a game that interests me more.

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Well, it basically is Pokemon Diamond/Pearl with a more involving plot, a Battle Frontier like from Emerald, and move tutors giving new moves. There's also a few key rebalances, like Hypnosis' accuracy being dropped to 60%. More pokemon are available in different orders from in D/P, and several areas are also slightly (or sometimes majorly, in the case of a few gyms and the World of Distortion, which didn't even used to exist but is now key to the plot). Aside from that, there's also several QOL changes, such as filler in battles being dropped significantly and Surf moving as fast as you run, not as fast as you walk.

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